IN - Lauren Spierer, 20, Bloomington, 03 June 2011 #27

[AbbeyR]

From the link I posted above:

USA Today, 6/13/2011

Several students who saw Rossman in the period after Spierer vanished questioned the "memory loss," saying he had no bruising or redness to his face that would support the claim.

"Supposedly he had that big altercation, but he didn't look like anything happened to him," said senior Chris Malone, who saw Corey the next morning, Feb. 4.

Rossman was outside his apartment, asking Malone if he'd seen Spierer.

"What's up boys?" Malone quoted Rossman as telling him. "Did you happen to see a little blond girl?"

Malone, who hadn't seen her, said he knows Rossman and roommate Mike Beth because they played in his Fantasy Football League and would sometimes grill together.

"They like to party," he said.

http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/...-missing_n.htm

 

[Barry]

Why does it seem that most here don't seem to consider JW a higher level POI? Is there something known about JW that would seemingly confirm he couldn't be involved?

Whether he had means or opportunity is in question but as for motive it doesn't take speculation to make a motive connection (jealousy). For the other known PsOI it does take speculation to come up with a theory for a motive.

IMO, I've seen nothing to this point that excludes him.

 

[Darcyline]

CR was arrested for pot at one point. I usually hear "party" to mean harder drugs or lots of liquor in addition to just pot though. I guess it depends on the person and group though. I remember a discussion here a long time ago when people were saying that party has absolutely no drug connotation and they just meant getting together with friends. For me and my friends, party always meant getting really wasted with alcohol/drugs. I have a feeling for some of them party did mean getting very intoxicated through various means.

 

[shotgunhomicide]

The "memory loss" does seem convenient, but I REALLY wish we knew how much alcohol he had consumed prior to heading back to his apartment with LS. I've personally been *that* wasted before to the point of not being able to put together concise bits of jumbled pieces of the night before together. However, he seems to put the fight as the primary cause of his amnesia, which oddly enough allows him to not be able to account for the moments leading up to getting punched. That's why I strongly suspect he remembers every darn thing that happened that night and he's just too cowardly to do the right thing.

As for JW, if he isn't on the Spierer's radar and he apparently doesn't know about the events on the night in question, why would he be told to not have any communication with the Spierers? I know lawyers are tricky sons of *****es, but that seems suspect to me if he genuinely doesn't have anything to hide. I don't know.. I just can't pretend to understand the motivations of ANY the kids involved in all of this. They act so far from what good and normal people would do that it would almost be comical if there wasn't a beautiful girl that remains missing due to their apathy and incompetence.

 

[monkey222]

Thanks for info. I also recall a news report that stated that one of the guys asked someone at or outside a convenience store near their apts. So it seems that the players certainly had an inkling that the hard night of partying , at least at this point, may have lead up to a missing girl.

 

[AbbeyR]

Thanks for info. I also recall a news report that stated that one of the guys asked someone at or outside a convenience store near their apts. So it seems that the players certainly had an inkling that the hard night of partying , at least at this point, may have lead up to a missing girl.

She was reported missing the afternoon of June 3rd, right?

So either, the friend in the article above meant to say the morning of June 3rd (not 4th), before she was reported missing -- but then, if their story is she had gone over to JR's and then walked home towards her apartment, why would CR wake up and start canvassing his neighbourhood for her? Wouldn't he just assume she made it home? If not, what gave him reason to worry?

If it was June 4th, then he would know she had already been reported missing. But at least from this snippet, it seems like a pretty casual question, if that was the case.

If there is another article about him asking about a little blond girl at a convenience store, that would help to clarify when CR was looking for her. I don't remember one though... if anyone does, please post!

 

[monkey222]

The query at the convenience store was before she was reported missing, to the best of my recollection. The query was somewhere in the timeframe between 10am and 2pmish. This was in interviews/news reports. I recalled that it was reported that there was an altercation of some sort between JW and one of the boys at their apt where she was last seen. This was before she was reported missing. To me, this was logical for the boyfriend to go looking for her at their apts, and likewise, for the boys to inquire around their neighborhood as to a drunken girl's whereabouts

 

[akh]

I would be careful in putting too much importance on discussions when the 5 north occupants started inquiring about LS. Between sloppy and bad reporting and people misremembering some things discussed months ago I doubt there's anything definitive (in the public realm) that can point to whether these reported comments were made June 3rd or June 4th.

In fact, if they were actually made June 3rd I would've expected a whole lot more discussion about them at the time and continuing on to this day. Not popping back up months later as if they were something that was missed.

Since they faded quickly at the time it tends to seem like the consensus was they were actually from June 4th. Otherwise, people would still be talking about the discrepancy as part of a continued thread from the start and more would've been made of it at the time.

...IMHO...

 

[elmomom]

The query at the convenience store was before she was reported missing, to the best of my recollection. The query was somewhere in the timeframe between 10am and 2pmish. This was in interviews/news reports. I recalled that it was reported that there was an altercation of some sort between JW and one of the boys at their apt where she was last seen. This was before she was reported missing. To me, this was logical for the boyfriend to go looking for her at their apts, and likewise, for the boys to inquire around their neighborhood as to a drunken girl's whereabouts

The confrontation was said to be JW and his father confronting CR. This never made it to MSM, but that was what was the rumor on other unverified sites. That being the case, it most certainly happened AFTER LS was reported missing as JW's father was already in town.

 

[PlainJaneDoe]

Just noticed that there are 2 guests reading here with me. Please consider joining us. :wave:

 

[concernedmother]

Never even hear about this case any more and Im just a couple hrs from there if even that far and alot of kids from this area go to Bloomington to school.Would love to know if much is ever said on the news there.

 

[Jupiter812]

The query at the convenience store was before she was reported missing, to the best of my recollection. The query was somewhere in the timeframe between 10am and 2pmish. This was in interviews/news reports. I recalled that it was reported that there was an altercation of some sort between JW and one of the boys at their apt where she was last seen. This was before she was reported missing. To me, this was logical for the boyfriend to go looking for her at their apts, and likewise, for the boys to inquire around their neighborhood as to a drunken girl's whereabouts

I think what you're calling the "convenience store" is actually the CVS. There are no convenience stores (e.g., 7-11 or Big Foot) in his neighborhood. It makes sense that it was June 3, not the 4th. He probably went to CVS to get a hair of the dog, some pain killers, and fill a script for anxiety. :what:

Also, surely someone called him to ask Lauren's whereabouts before she was officially reported missing. Your timeframe approximates that and then it makes sense that he would ask neighbors if they saw her that same day of June 3.

 

[Jupiter812]

The query at the convenience store was before she was reported missing, to the best of my recollection. The query was somewhere in the timeframe between 10am and 2pmish. This was in interviews/news reports. I recalled that it was reported that there was an altercation of some sort between JW and one of the boys at their apt where she was last seen. This was before she was reported missing. To me, this was logical for the boyfriend to go looking for her at their apts, and likewise, for the boys to inquire around their neighborhood as to a drunken girl's whereabouts

I recall hearing about a confrontation that morning too but not in MSM. I didn't search but for a minute and found a comment about it on blog http://legalpublication.blogspot.com/2011/06/lauren-spierer-disappearance-puzzles.html

There certainly was reason enough for more than one altercation to occur at 5 North after what happened that night, that's for sure!

 

[Jupiter812]

If there is another article about him asking about a little blond girl at a convenience store, that would help to clarify when CR was looking for her. I don't remember one though... if anyone does, please post!

I have always remembered the CVS account because of how the friend describes the relationship between CR and MB. For me, it is meaningful because it puts CR as the alpha male in the relationship and MB as someone who might do something special for him.

Though it doesn't specifically say the asked about a "little blonde girl" I think it's safe to say that it was the jest of the discussion. This report was in the IDS and LoHud News, possibly Herald Times, as well other sources. It's not archived on their sites, but here is an excerpt ( from Victim's Heartland online):

"A friend of Rossman's told The Journal News on Friday that Rossman looked groggy but OK several hours afterward and was aware that Spierer was missing. The friend, a male Indiana University student who lives in Spierer's building, said he ran into Rossman at a CVS pharmacy the afternoon of June 3 and saw no redness or bruising on his face.

He said Rossman was with Beth and told him that Spierer had been in their apartment early that morning.

The friend spoke on the condition his name not be used because he did not want to anger Rossman and did not want police to know he was speaking about the case with a reporter.

He said Rossman recalled having a lot to drink the previous night and said he went home and passed out. Beth told the friend he put Rossman to bed and that Spierer wanted to leave. Beth told the friend he watched her walk out the door and down the street on her way home, the friend said.

According to the friend, Beth and Rossman are not just roommates, but also close friends; he described Rossman as "cool and sometimes cocky" and Beth as his slightly younger buddy who looked up to Rossman."

 

[monkey222]

Thanks Jupiter,

That article that you found re: CVS account is definitely a new, news account than the news account that I recall. Perhaps it was a video interview that I saw. I actually thought it was before she was reported missing. I just attributed the query to hungover students trying to put the pieces together from a foggy night.

 

[bessie]

I have always remembered the CVS account because of how the friend describes the relationship between CR and MB. For me, it is meaningful because it puts CR as the alpha male in the relationship and MB as someone who might do something special for him.

Though it doesn't specifically say the asked about a "little blonde girl" I think it's safe to say that it was the jest of the discussion. This report was in the IDS and LoHud News, possibly Herald Times, as well other sources. It's not archived on their sites, but here is an excerpt ( from Victim's Heartland online):

"A friend of Rossman's told The Journal News on Friday that Rossman looked groggy but OK several hours afterward and was aware that Spierer was missing. The friend, a male Indiana University student who lives in Spierer's building, said he ran into Rossman at a CVS pharmacy the afternoon of June 3 and saw no redness or bruising on his face.

He said Rossman was with Beth and told him that Spierer had been in their apartment early that morning.

The friend spoke on the condition his name not be used because he did not want to anger Rossman and did not want police to know he was speaking about the case with a reporter.

He said Rossman recalled having a lot to drink the previous night and said he went home and passed out. Beth told the friend he put Rossman to bed and that Spierer wanted to leave. Beth told the friend he watched her walk out the door and down the street on her way home, the friend said.

According to the friend, Beth and Rossman are not just roommates, but also close friends; he described Rossman as "cool and sometimes cocky" and Beth as his slightly younger buddy who looked up to Rossman."

I remember that well, Jupiter. But, the "little blonde girl" query was a separate incident. Note the huge discrepancy in the date.

"Supposedly he had that big altercation, but he didn't look like anything happened to him," said senior Chris Malone, who saw Corey the next morning, Feb. 4.

http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/2011-06-12-lauren-spierer-missing_n.htm

**See snips of the articles at post #217 here

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?p=7444401&highlight=malone#post7444401

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?p=6757297&highlight=malone#post6757297

We also discussed it in this thread beginning at post #455 (06/12/2011, 2:59 pm).
http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?p=6663993&highlight=malone#post6663993


If you find my post #459 you'll see that the discrepancy about the date struck me immediately. lol

Don't feel alone, Monkey222, because the whole issue had many of us confused.

 

[Jupiter812]

I remember that well, Jupiter. But, the "little blonde girl" query was a separate incident. Note the huge discrepancy in the date.

http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/2011-06-12-lauren-spierer-missing_n.htm

**See snips of the articles at post #217 here

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?p=7444401&highlight=malone#post7444401

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?p=6757297&highlight=malone#post6757297

We also discussed it in this thread beginning at post #455 (06/12/2011, 2:59 pm).
http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?p=6663993&highlight=malone#post6663993


If you find my post #459 you'll see that the discrepancy about the date struck me immediately. lol

Don't feel alone, Monkey222, because the whole issue had many of us confused.

Yes, I shared the CVS because Abby was curious when CR started looking for her. According to this article he knew she was missing the day of June 3, so I figure this is when he started looking.

 

[bessie]

Yes, I shared the CVS because Abby was curious when CR started looking for her. According to this article he knew she was missing the day of June 3, so I figure this is when he started looking.

That's right. The CVS encounter clearly took place the afternoon of June 3rd. The unnamed person talks about CR and MB, and says MB looks up to CR, or whatever. No problem with that article. By the afternoon of the 3rd many people were looking for LS. So CR could have found out when the other friends did.

It's the timing of the other incident -- "have you seen a little blonde girl?" -- that isn't clear.

"Supposedly he had that big altercation, but he didn't look like anything happened to him," said senior Chris Malone, who saw Corey the next morning, Feb. 4

Rossman was outside his apartment, asking Malone if he'd seen Spierer.


"What's up boys?" Malone quoted Rossman as telling him. "Did you happen to see a little blond girl?"

http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/2011-06-12-lauren-spierer-missing_n.htm

The "next morning" following the "big altercation" would have been June 3rd. If everyone is telling the truth, CR wouldn't have known LS was missing at that point. As Abbey said, why would CR wake up and start canvassing the neighborhood before the word went out that LS was missing?

Since the month was so obviously incorrect, it leaves doubt about the day. Was the 4 supposed to be a 3? The article was eventually updated to read June 3, but the seed of doubt had already been planted. If June 4 is correct, then the "next morning" is an error because the morning after the altercation would have been June 3. Even though technically, the altercation occurred after midnight on June 3, the average reader would still consider the hours between sunrise and noon as "the next morning".

Hope that makes sense.

 

[Jupiter812]

That's right. The CVS encounter clearly took place the afternoon of June 3rd. The unnamed person talks about CR and MB, and says MB looks up to CR, or whatever. No problem with that article. By the afternoon of the 3rd many people were looking for LS. So CR could have found out when the other friends did.

It's the timing of the other incident -- "have you seen a little blonde girl?" -- that isn't clear.

http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/2011-06-12-lauren-spierer-missing_n.htm

The "next morning" following the "big altercation" would have been June 3rd. If everyone is telling the truth, CR wouldn't have known LS was missing at that point. As Abbey said, why would CR wake up and start canvassing the neighborhood before the word went out that LS was missing?

Since the month was so obviously incorrect, it leaves doubt about the day. Was the 4 supposed to be a 3? The article was eventually updated to read June 3, but the seed of doubt had already been planted. If June 4 is correct, then the "next morning" is an error because the morning after the altercation would have been June 3. Even though technically, the altercation occurred after midnight on June 3, the average reader would still consider the hours between sunrise and noon as "the next morning".

Hope that makes sense.

Thanks, Bessie! Now it (the doubt) makes sense. Interesting! But there is yet another huge error in that USA article which leads me to believe the 4th is really the 3rd because of this:

"Qualters said investigators have received new surveillance video from at least one downtown Bloomington business, and he hopes for more in pinning down Spierer's whereabouts around the time of her disappearance early June 4."

Couple of thoughts...I think the definition of "morning" is relative. Students who party, sleep late, and wake up at 1:00 p.m. may consider that "morning" time, Malone included.

Even if it was 11 or 11:30 a.m. I can't imagine that JW had not already started calling around by that hour. (Of course one wonders if passed out partiers would answer their phone that early.)

One would think if Malone saw CR on the 4th Malone would say he saw him asking about the little blonde girl "the next day."

Lastly, if CR already knew she was missing because of his own involvement, that's pretty darn brazen of him to be out on the street pretending to be looking for her. Ugh

 

[PlainJaneDoe]

:candle: for Lauren