IN - Lauren Spierer, 20, Bloomington, 03 June 2011 - #9

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Hi, I was also lurking and decided to actually register.

My thoughts: I'm very convinced of an OD. She has long QT syndrome and is probably on a beta blocker, and I really don't think this would be a good mix with coke and alcohol. I believe she'd be much more at risk for an OD than a person without long QT. Seems like the most reasonable explanation to me.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/11441329
http://test.pathologyportal.org/site~/100th/speccardh1v.htm
(two links with some details about mixing alcohol, coke, and long QT, unrelated to LS)

Then where is she? Someone disposed of her which is a crime.

Previous posters over the past days have explained in detail the bodily functions and effects of OD--the mess and how virtually impossible it would be to clean up without leaving bits of evidence.
 
<modsnip> The photos of JW that people have described as 'control'ling LS read to me only as someone who isn't much bigger than her clinging to the love of his life; I find somewhat offensive the notion that he should take down from his fb page a cherished memory of his probably dead girlfriend because it makes some people suspicious. <modsnip> And yes, I've read the reasons to be suspicious of JW - have you read my post stating that the people closest to LS/LE do not believe he is responsible? I say this not to 'deflect' attention from anyone, but because I find it frustrating that people continue to concentrate on theories they don't know have been rejected by those closest to the investigation.

As to the phone call to DR, again I believe it is a waste of time to talk about, because we would likely know from Smallwood security data if he left the building, and the fact that LE have accessed his phone and apparently have not pursued him at all. Whoever called, and for whatever reason, it's a moot point.
 
not MSM
The new article at tonygatto.com looks to be a summary of yesterday's discussion here on WS, including a photo showing the view from 11th in the dark.

If that photo is the one taken by a poster here, I hope TG obtained permission to use it. I don't see any photo credit.
 
Regarding my questioning those who find JW and HT's appearance/statements suspicious, I understand that JR is Jewish as well. I also note that there has been very little discussion of either his appearance or his credibility. The photos of JW that people have described as 'control'ling LS read to me only as someone who isn't much bigger than her clinging to the love of his life; I find somewhat offensive the notion that he should take down from his fb page a cherished memory of his probably dead girlfriend because it makes some people suspicious. I also especially question the questioning of HT, because she is not just Jewish, but apparently Israeli, raising middle-American suspicion of middle-Easterners as well. And yes, I've read the reasons to be suspicious of JW - have you read my post stating that the people closest to LS/LE do not believe he is responsible? I say this not to 'deflect' attention from anyone, but because I find it frustrating that people continue to concentrate on theories they don't know have been rejected by those closest to the investigation.

As to the phone call to DR, again I believe it is a waste of time to talk about, because we would likely know from Smallwood security data if he left the building, and the fact that LE have accessed his phone and apparently have not pursued him at all. Whoever called, and for whatever reason, it's a moot point.

On WS, if you have inside information or know one or more of the people involved, usually you need to become verified as a local. Also we are not allowed to talk vaguely about info we may have, if we cannot link a source. You can contact any mod for more info, if you want to, Bessie is the mod that has been here on this thread regularly.
 
Regarding my questioning those who find JW and HT's appearance/statements suspicious, I understand that JR is Jewish as well. I also note that there has been very little discussion of either his appearance or his credibility. The photos of JW that people have described as 'control'ling LS read to me only as someone who isn't much bigger than her clinging to the love of his life; I find somewhat offensive the notion that he should take down from his fb page a cherished memory of his probably dead girlfriend because it makes some people suspicious. I also especially question the questioning of HT, because she is not just Jewish, but apparently Israeli, raising middle-American suspicion of middle-Easterners as well. And yes, I've read the reasons to be suspicious of JW - have you read my post stating that the people closest to LS/LE do not believe he is responsible? I say this not to 'deflect' attention from anyone, but because I find it frustrating that people continue to concentrate on theories they don't know have been rejected by those closest to the investigation.

As to the phone call to DR, again I believe it is a waste of time to talk about, because we would likely know from Smallwood security data if he left the building, and the fact that LE have accessed his phone and apparently have not pursued him at all. Whoever called, and for whatever reason, it's a moot point.

Hopefully, as soon as JW or anyone else is no longer a person of interest, LE will let us know.
 
My personal thoughts about HT are that she may have been/still is in a state of shock. She may have been jealous of LS but never expressed it to anyone. She may even be enjoying the absence of LS so she can be the center of attention. After all, this is a celebrity-driven youth culture and celebrity-ism takes many different forms.
 
Regarding my questioning those who find JW and HT's appearance/statements suspicious, I understand that JR is Jewish as well. I also note that there has been very little discussion of either his appearance or his credibility. The photos of JW that people have described as 'control'ling LS read to me only as someone who isn't much bigger than her clinging to the love of his life; I find somewhat offensive the notion that he should take down from his fb page a cherished memory of his probably dead girlfriend because it makes some people suspicious. I also especially question the questioning of HT, because she is not just Jewish, but apparently Israeli, raising middle-American suspicion of middle-Easterners as well. And yes, I've read the reasons to be suspicious of JW - have you read my post stating that the people closest to LS/LE do not believe he is responsible? I say this not to 'deflect' attention from anyone, but because I find it frustrating that people continue to concentrate on theories they don't know have been rejected by those closest to the investigation.

As to the phone call to DR, again I believe it is a waste of time to talk about, because we would likely know from Smallwood security data if he left the building, and the fact that LE have accessed his phone and apparently have not pursued him at all. Whoever called, and for whatever reason, it's a moot point.

BBM. I was under the impression that HT is Jewish. It has been stated in the interview HT provided to a reporter that she met LS years ago at a sleep away camp for Jewish kids. Someone please correct me if I am wrong, thanks

ETA: OOOPS my mistake, I did not see where you said she is not just jewish. Thought you said she is not jewish. Apologies :)
 
Regarding my questioning those who find JW and HT's appearance/statements suspicious, I understand that JR is Jewish as well. I also note that there has been very little discussion of either his appearance or his credibility. The photos of JW that people have described as 'control'ling LS read to me only as someone who isn't much bigger than her clinging to the love of his life; I find somewhat offensive the notion that he should take down from his fb page a cherished memory of his probably dead girlfriend because it makes some people suspicious. I also especially question the questioning of HT, because she is not just Jewish, but apparently Israeli, raising middle-American suspicion of middle-Easterners as well. And yes, I've read the reasons to be suspicious of JW - have you read my post stating that the people closest to LS/LE do not believe he is responsible? I say this not to 'deflect' attention from anyone, but because I find it frustrating that people continue to concentrate on theories they don't know have been rejected by those closest to the investigation.

As to the phone call to DR, again I believe it is a waste of time to talk about, because we would likely know from Smallwood security data if he left the building, and the fact that LE have accessed his phone and apparently have not pursued him at all. Whoever called, and for whatever reason, it's a moot point.

I agree with you regarding the phone call that DR was not involved. I think he is lucky he was sleeping during the call, though, or he might have some information that he is better off not knowing. In my scenario, JR made the call to DR.

I also want to ask, what is your point regarding the Jewish heritage of the persons mentioned? I am not suggesting you are being anti-Semitic, I just must have missed a point.
 
To add one more thing to Cluciano63's post.
We're all anonymous here. What's to say that you aren't JW, or HT, or one of their parents? Just saying that you know something is somewhat meaningless when you cannnot prove it, nor can you be evaluated as to your objectiveness. I categorize your information the same as the witness at 3:38 0 interesting but uncertain as to the weight I should give it.
It's not personal.
 
I'm referring to posts I've read on prior versions of this thread. It's apparently <modsnip> people off, and I don't intend to distract from the purpose of this thread, so I'll drop it.

<modsnip>
 
Like I've said, I've acknowledged reason to be suspicious about what I'm saying. I think that might be enough to get over your suspicion.
 
I'm referring to posts I've read on prior versions of this thread. It's apparently <modsnip> people off, and I don't intend to distract from the purpose of this thread, so I'll drop it.

<modsnip>.

AnalyticalExaminer, I appreciate you participating in this discussion. We all have our own opinions as to what happened to Lauren and are trying to make sense of the information we have. Please post any links you have!
 
I don't think it was him either, but you can't rule him out just because he reported her missing. It actually would be a pretty smart move by him if he did do anything.

Although I don't suspect JW, it happens all the time in other cases, where the perp is the one to make the report.
 
Regarding my questioning those who find JW and HT's appearance/statements suspicious, I understand that JR is Jewish as well. I also note that there has been very little discussion of either his appearance or his credibility. The photos of JW that people have described as 'control'ling LS read to me only as someone who isn't much bigger than her clinging to the love of his life; I find somewhat offensive the notion that he should take down from his fb page a cherished memory of his probably dead girlfriend because it makes some people suspicious. I also especially question the questioning of HT, because she is not just Jewish, but apparently Israeli, raising middle-American suspicion of middle-Easterners as well. And yes, I've read the reasons to be suspicious of JW - have you read my post stating that the people closest to LS/LE do not believe he is responsible? I say this not to 'deflect' attention from anyone, but because I find it frustrating that people continue to concentrate on theories they don't know have been rejected by those closest to the investigation.

Understand that although it's frustrating to you that people continue to mention a POI that according to your sources has been exonerated by LE, at this point it's only an assertion by you (an anonymous poster on a message board, like myself) about a case in which the body has not been found and no arrests have been made. In other words, if you were in my shoes and I was in yours--would you automatically believe me?
 
A while ago, maybe a couple of threads ago, I listed my reasons why I couldn't dismiss JW as a suspect out of hand. I was/am still fighting with my gut that has a hard time that accepting that ANY of these kids had ANYTHING to do with it. I'm sorry, they ALL seem like nice kids and is so hard to imagine any of what we are contemplating.
But one of the red flags that I felt went up around JW was the fact that LS's parents give me the impression that their opinion may have changed somewhat - and I apologize as it was "just a feeling" and cannot find the exact quote to back me up.
But that, coupled with the over zealous and strident defense of him from the players in this case has raised the hairs on the back of my neck. I start feeling, "now why does everyone want so badly for me to believe how wonderful he really is". This is a very close knit group of kids, and obviously they are quite negative about the other group. In fact their negative feelings were shown quite clearly BEFORE LS disappears, as evidenced by the altercation we have all heard about on the 5th floor of Smallwood.
I don't go on and on over the reasons to suspect JR since he is the clear and obvious suspect that no one needs convincing about. I've never, ever said I didn't think he may be involved. All I have said is that I cannot absolve JW just yet, and I will again repeat that really, my gut has been telling me stranger abduction all along. I just don't want people to rule out anything yet, as there is not objective evidence to do so.
 
Yesterday's Presser:

If there has been any evidence uncovered, police are not releasing details. &#8220;I am not going into specifics as to what we may have,&#8221; Qualters said. He added that detectives have not narrowed their view or determined what happened to Spierer.

Was she abducted off the street that Friday morning by a stranger? Did she overdose or have a medical issue &#8212; she took medication for a heart condition &#8212; that caused her death? Did the friends she was with that night have anything to do with her disappearance?

&#8220;We&#8217;re not at a point to give more consideration to one theory as opposed to another. We can speculate all we want,&#8221; Qualters said,
adding that police cannot pinpoint what may have happened to the 90-pound student.

http://www.heraldtimesonline.com/stories/2011/06/20/news.qp-1784939.sto
 
Yes, that's an interesting point about the shift in Lauren's parents' behavior.

If it were true that they and/or LE did not believe JW had any involvement, what would be the purpose of remaining silent and giving ambiguous answers to questions about his involvement? (For example, in a press conference Lauren's father avoided a question about whether or not JW had been cooperative with the police by pausing and then responding that he did not know the content of that conversation). It sounds to me like they aren't entirely certain of anything... or perhaps they have been advised not to give out any information beyond appeals for information? I don't know...
 
IMO, allowing for reasonable speculation, places additional pressure on anyone (in this case, likely peers and secondary-tier acquaintances and associates) who may be withholding any small piece of information that can lead to Lauren. LE will evaluate how small and/or useless the information may be, not LS's college peers.
 
The 4:15 phone call to DR does not have an obvious explanation in this narrative. If LS needed someone to let her in at Smallwood, she would have called HT as she would need to be admitted to both the complex and her (and HT's room). My understanding is that JR and HT are very close and go "way back"; he had her phone number.

The latest plea from LS's mother to "tell us what you know" seems to demonstrate that she is operating on the assumption that the circles of friends are involved. I can only assume that LE is conveying this message.

I still find the issue of the keys and coin purse unsettling. People out drinking do lose their shoes, phones, keys or anything else they might be carrying but losing different items at different times would suggest a very bad night. The phone and shoes at Kilroy's is understandable; LS would have to set them down and it is reasonable that she might leave without them. Dropping a set of keys and purse while you are walking is harder to do, even if you are inebriated.

Anyone who finds themselves POI in a murder case yet is "factually" uninvolved in the crime would have three priorities: 1) clear yourself of any involvement 2) help LE find the real culprit and 3) avoid being railroaded into prison. An attorney would see #3 as their primarily responsibility in this case but they would probably cooperate with LE in order to achieve #1 &#2 as long as #3 would not be compromised. Any POI with a lawyer that has &#8220;cooperated fully&#8221; probably convinced their lawyer that they are "not involved". We can't really conclude the reverse but it "looks bad" not to cooperate with a murder investigation. This would create a serious problem for anyone who was "uninvolved&#8221; in the disappearance/murder yet had committed another serious crime (such a furnishing a controlled substance). A person in that situation would probably be advised to "say nothing".

In the back of mind, there is that nagging concern that this is really just an abduction by a stranger that occurred after 4:15 along College and all the focus directed at the circle of friends is a result of people giving "other than" straightforward answers early in the investigation. I don't have enough information to be sure however.
 
Regarding my questioning those who find JW and HT's appearance/statements suspicious, I understand that JR is Jewish as well. I also note that there has been very little discussion of either his appearance or his credibility. The photos of JW that people have described as 'control'ling LS read to me only as someone who isn't much bigger than her clinging to the love of his life; I find somewhat offensive the notion that he should take down from his fb page a cherished memory of his probably dead girlfriend because it makes some people suspicious. I also especially question the questioning of HT, because she is not just Jewish, but apparently Israeli, raising middle-American suspicion of middle-Easterners as well. And yes, I've read the reasons to be suspicious of JW - have you read my post stating that the people closest to LS/LE do not believe he is responsible? I say this not to 'deflect' attention from anyone, but because I find it frustrating that people continue to concentrate on theories they don't know have been rejected by those closest to the investigation.

As to the phone call to DR, again I believe it is a waste of time to talk about, because we would likely know from Smallwood security data if he left the building, and the fact that LE have accessed his phone and apparently have not pursued him at all. Whoever called, and for whatever reason, it's a moot point.

1. Umm the fact that they are Jewish has been mentioned because, well, they are ALL Jewish in this tangled little mystery. I haven't seen a single person named here who IS NOT Jewish. There is a larger Jewish population at IU. If this was a group of Italian kids, and every last one of them was Italian, it would come up too, I promise. The suspicion is not based on nationality or religious affiliations, it is based on the fact that these people know/where with/spent time with Lauren. HT could be a non-descript, Midwestern white girl and her wording of things, and her behavior would raise eyebrows. Ppl are suspicious because she appears to be holding back. Her body language, her wording and her very quick defense of JW long before anyone even knew he existed is telling to some.

2. Those "closest" to LS have appealed JW originally. The parents haven't made a statement about JW since then. LE has not ruled JW out as a POI, if they had it would have come out that he was cleared. I asked my BF, today, about this. Without knowing anything about the case I said "hey, babe, if I went missing what would you do?" and he said, straight out, he would tell everyone and anyone who asked EVERYTHING he needed to to help find me. I asked him what he thought of a BF who left the state where his GF had gone missing and he immediately said "he knows something, or had something to do with it". Sorry, it's statistically, how it goes and JWs actions have not been one of a man looking for the "love of his life". They are the actions of a young boy taking his ball and going home cause he doesn't want to play anymore. His silence is telling. He might not be able to help with the searches, but after years of dating someone, if you had nothing to do with it, you might want to at-least be there for her family members. I'm not saying he did anything, but it sure tells me that this relationship was not as rosy as HT and the parents originally made it out to be. Maybe they were on the verge of ending things, who knows, but this is not someone who appears to be going through hell and high water to find his missing girlfriend.
 
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