Is DDS cooperating with the investigation??? Poll is added, please vote.

[RoughlyCollie]

There actually are 6 parts total. They're all on YouTube. The entire series is called In Praise of the 5th Amendment.

Argh! I tried to link all 6 but they all embed and take up too much room. Just search YouTube.

From what I can tell, the two parts I posted contain the six parts you are talking about. I guess different people posted this to YouTube, one person in 6 parts, the other in 2.

 

[azmama]

Spicher's attorney, Chad Stavely, said Spicher was asked no questions but told to return, possibly within a few weeks.

http://www.nwcn.com/news/Terri-Horm...ron-disappeared-says-Kyrons-mom-99467399.html

I haven't read this whole thread yet, so please forgive me if it is answered, and I haven't read it yet, but why would she be called before the grand jury and not asked any questions? That doesn't make sense to me, is this normal operating procedure?

thanks!

 

[BeanE]

From what I can tell, the two parts I posted contain the six parts you are talking about. I guess different people posted this to YouTube, one person in 6 parts, the other in 2.

Oh okay that could be. Thanks, RC!

 

[BeanE]

I haven't read this whole thread yet, so please forgive me if it is answered, and I haven't read it yet, but why would she be called before the grand jury and not asked any questions? That doesn't make sense to me, is this normal operating procedure?

thanks!

You can poke around in the Legal & Law Questions thread for some info on this. I believe she didn't have time to get immunity in place, since she didn't hire her attorney until Friday, and had to appear at the GJ on Monday morning. Courts are closed on the weekends.

See nursebeeme's posts in this thread for the info she researched on immunity. Good info. Then see AZlawyer's posts in the Legal Questions thread.

 

[Calliope]

There actually are 6 parts total. They're all on YouTube. The entire series is called In Praise of the 5th Amendment.

Argh! I tried to link all 6 but they all embed and take up too much room. Just search YouTube.

When you say 'series', do you mean 6 different venues?

 

[Calliope]

From what I can tell, the two parts I posted contain the six parts you are talking about. I guess different people posted this to YouTube, one person in 6 parts, the other in 2.

IIRC, the school (or possibly just Duane himself) posted online the entire thing in one video that lasts 49 minutes. Then there are two videos where it's split between each speaker. I think the shorter versions were posted there by others.

 

[angelmom]

Wow. What about this case makes you feel that way? It can't just be because of what Kaine and Desiree are saying----as they really carry no weight, except with regard to Terri, both knowing her as they do. But I would think that if I had nothing to hide, and had a father in LE, no criminal record (atleast I would think we'd know that from the media by now) that my forthcoming to LE with everything that Terri and I discussed, phone calls, texts and anything else might speak to my innocence. Afterall, what could they charge me with if I had nothing to hide.

I may not trust the public as far as I could throw any one of them, but I do still trust in LE and trust in the truth. True, that attorneys are a necessity to protect oneself----if you have something to hide and needs protecting. It's sort of like getting called for a random drug test------if you don't take drugs you've got nothing to worry about.

It is nothing like being called for a drug test. In a drug test they are looking for drugs. Nothing else. No one announces to the public that you were sent for a drug test and looked "distraught" or "smug" or "disheveled" afterwards. No one announces in the media that you failed a drug test (or that the results were inconclusive) in relation to the most publicized crime in the news right then. No one assumes that if your drug test was inconclusive, then that goes to your character and you are probably also a murderer. No one uses a failed drug test as probable cause to search your home, office, relatives' homes, computers, phone records, and texts.

DS was outed by KH and DY. They are the ones who told the media her name and that she was not cooperating. We didn't hear that from LE, but now her life is an open book. People are sleuthing her, trying to find out where she works and making blatant accusations based on NOTHING. I have seen everything (not necessarily here, but some) from the suggestion (based on what??? NOTHING!) that she and Terri were lovers to she helped kill Kyron. Are you telling me that you'd walk into that with your eyes wide open??? That's CRAZY. Even if you would do it, wouldn't you seek legal counsel first?

And I can tell you what I know from the family and friends in LE and who are lawyers, they will ALL tell you to shut up and call a lawyer, even if you are innocent. Those videos posted are a great example of that, and one of the speakers (part 2, I think) is a detective who says the same thing. DS's father probably told her to call a lawyer and not speak.

All you have to do is look at Roy Kronk and the guy who found Nadia in the woods to know that innocence does not stop this destruction of your life. Even if they found Kyron in the woods with a note pinned to his little chest in his own handwriting that said, "I got lost. Please help." there will still be people forever who think she had something to do with it. Try getting hired, try getting a loan, try letting your kid have a friend over and see if it sounds appealing to get involved.

What no one who makes these statements is considering is - what if they're innocent??? If you know you don't know anything and don't feel like getting dragged through the mud for no reason, then I can see not talking to LE. I would really be nervous, even if I thought I did know something.

 

[wondering1]

It is nothing like being called for a drug test. In a drug test they are looking for drugs. Nothing else. No one announces to the public that you were sent for a drug test and looked "distraught" or "smug" or "disheveled" afterwards. No one announces in the media that you failed a drug test (or that the results were inconclusive) in relation to the most publicized crime in the news right then. No one assumes that if your drug test was inconclusive, then that goes to your character and you are probably also a murderer. No one uses a failed drug test as probable cause to search your home, office, relatives' homes, computers, phone records, and texts.

And I can tell you what I know from the family and friends in LE and who are lawyers, they will ALL tell you to shut up and call a lawyer, even if you are innocent.

sbm~

Here's another example from the personal experience of an innocent mother concerned about her children.

In the context of my extremely messy custody battle with a person whom I believe to be a sociopath, I was falsely accused of all kinds of things, including drug abuse (oh, bahaha...I barely take ibuprofen, but whatever). I insisted to my attorney that I volunteer for a drug test (hair sample) so we could put that allegation aside and move on. He told me I SHOULD NOT do that b/c (a) he's an attorney; and (b) probably b/c he wasn't as absolutely sure as I was that it would be negative.

I did it anyway, knowing full well the very small risk of a false positive. There was no way I was going to let a false allegation of drug abuse become a he said/she said issue...period. Custody of my children was potentially on the line, and there was no way I was going to let accusations and people's subjective perceptions of whether the allegations might be true, determine whether I got custody of my children or not.

Maybe other woman who are 100% innocent would proceed differently, but my perspective is based on what I did in that situation and the fact that it wasn't even an issue for me to take affirmative steps to disprove that allegation right off the jump -- never even crossed my mind to follow my attorneys' advice on that one. And, fwiw, I know better. It didn't matter.

 

[Peliman]

CBS Report - DeDe was asked one question at the Grand jury.

Could she return?

CBS then asks, what's the purpose of bringing her in. The former Captain explains more in the video. He explains LE can issue search warrants but can not compel people to come into police headquarters and answer questions. BUT

The GJ can bring someone in and compel them to answer questions, so a message was probably being sent to DeDe and her friends if they are with-holding info.

More at the video link.

http://cnettv.cnet.com/key-finding-kyron-horman/9742-1_53-50091081.html

 

[BeanE]

CBS Report - DeDe was asked one question at the Grand jury.

Could she return?

CBS then asks, what's the purpose of bringing her in. The former Captain explains more in the video. He explains LE can issue search warrants but can not compel people to come into police headquarters and answer questions. BUT

The GJ can bring someone in and compel them to answer questions, so a message was probably being sent to DeDe and her friends if they are with-holding info.

More at the video link.

http://cnettv.cnet.com/key-finding-kyron-horman/9742-1_53-50091081.html

Here's the transcription of what the guy says in the video:

McCain said there are two areas in focus with Spicher: "One is her own activity and location and conduct on June 4, the day Kyron disappeared. She needs to hold herself exactly accountable as to what she did. … They're also extremely interested in the 10-day period in which she was staying and living with Terri Horman. You know they discussed some things. What they were, we don't know. DeDe Spicher is the key to this on her own conduct, as well as what she knows about what Terri Horman did when she was living with her."

The focus has primarily been on Spicher and Terri Horman. Will other people also be brought in to be questioned in Kyron's disappearance?

"It looks like they're not quite ready for that," McCain said. "A grand jury's primary duty under the law is to investigate crimes. They have a powerful tool in that subpoena and compel testify. ... They may not be ready to take this to the indictment stage unless and until they first of all know what the crime is. Nobody is a suspect or person of interest; we don't have a definable crime here yet. That's really what's strange about this because they seem to be focusing on Terri Horman as having some culpability, but they don't know what she did. After nine weeks and a $500,000 the authorities are no closer to answering what happened to Kyron today as they were then."

So where does the investigation go from here?

McCain said, "I think we saw a clue on Friday because Desiree reminded everyone what we talked about here on this program -- that there was the seven-hour gap from the time Kyron disappeared to when she was reported missing -- and Desiree reported he could be anywhere. Kaine said he does not believe Kyron is in the immediate vicinity. I would not be surprised to see the local sheriff's office has hit a dead end. The focus is now more likely with the FBI, perhaps across state lines."

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2010/08/02/earlyshow/main6736423.shtml

 

[PoppyH]

I believe she is not cooperating, you don't get accused if you are truthful and helpful JMO

 

[debs]

I believe she is not cooperating, you don't get accused if you are truthful and helpful JMO

She hasn't been charged with anything.

 

[PoppyH]

She hasn't been charged with anything.

No, she hasn't been charged, that doesn't mean she is not cooperating and that is just MOO

 

[debs]

No, she hasn't been charged, that doesn't mean she is not cooperating and that is just MOO

According to LE, she has cooperated.

 

[1Chump]

I believe she is not cooperating, you don't get accused if you are truthful and helpful JMO

Here are a few paragraphs from a news article "Why Innocent People Confess"

....

Every year, thousands of criminals are convicted on the basis of confessions obtained from police interrogations. Experts say law enforcement interrogation techniques are so effective that they can break down the most hardened criminal — and even people who are innocent of the crime they are being accused of. Experts believe there have been hundreds of cases where innocent men succumbed to interrogation and confessed to crimes they did not commit.

"You take someone who is vulnerable, like a grieving family member or someone who isn't used to being confronted by police," says Rich Fallin, a former Maryland police officer who specialized in interrogations, "If interrogated long enough, they'll probably confess."

Assuming Police Tell the Truth

During his interrogation, Gauger says, he kept denying any involvement with the murders. But he says police told him they had evidence. He mistakenly assumed police would not lie to him, an assumption often made by innocent people undergoing interrogation, according to experts.

For the rest of the article

http://abcnews.go.com/2020/story?id=123938&page=1

 

[Leila]

Retaining an attorney does not automatically signify guilt, or that one has something to hide.

The statement issued in the press by K&D would have been more than enough for me to retain an attorney, but at this point, I wouldn't have waited for that, for sure.

Up until this case, I thought as long as I were innocent of any criminal wrongdoing, that it would be no big deal to me, and that I'd go to LE, or go in for questioning if asked, should I have the misfortune to be associated with a criminal case.

No more. This case has shown me that without a doubt, getting an attorney immediately is the only way to go, if there's so much as a peep about criminal wrongdoing.

This case has finally gotten through to me, that innocence is meaningless in today's world. Attorneys are a necessity to protect oneself, in more ways than one.

For me, it's the Caylee Anthony case. That one case shows how vicious a defense team can be at trying to implicate innocent bystanders who's only "crime" is that they know the defendant.

 

[PoppyH]

Here are a few paragraphs from a news article "Why Innocent People Confess"

....

Every year, thousands of criminals are convicted on the basis of confessions obtained from police interrogations. Experts say law enforcement interrogation techniques are so effective that they can break down the most hardened criminal — and even people who are innocent of the crime they are being accused of. Experts believe there have been hundreds of cases where innocent men succumbed to interrogation and confessed to crimes they did not commit.

"You take someone who is vulnerable, like a grieving family member or someone who isn't used to being confronted by police," says Rich Fallin, a former Maryland police officer who specialized in interrogations, "If interrogated long enough, they'll probably confess."

Assuming Police Tell the Truth

During his interrogation, Gauger says, he kept denying any involvement with the murders. But he says police told him they had evidence. He mistakenly assumed police would not lie to him, an assumption often made by innocent people undergoing interrogation, according to experts.

For the rest of the article

http://abcnews.go.com/2020/story?id=123938&page=1

The thing is, DD is NOT a faimly member , nor is she grieving.

 

[Calliope]

For the rest of the article

http://abcnews.go.com/2020/story?id=123938&page=1

sbm

"Thanks" is not enough.

After 21 hours of questioning, Gauger broke down and confessed to a crime he did not commit.

----

"They told me that they had found bloody clothes in my bedroom; they found a bloody knife in my pocket," says Gauger, who never asked for an attorney, because he felt he had nothing to hide.

At about 1 a.m., he says, the interrogation turned ugly. Police showed him gruesome crime scene photos of his dead parents, sending him into an emotional freefall. The combination of losing his parents and being told by police repeatedly that he was a liar and killer was just too much.

"I was emotionally distraught, looking at these people for help," he says. "They wouldn't stop the interrogation. I was exhausted. I gave up."

Though Gauger had no memory of the crime, he ended up believing what police told him. "I thought I must have done it in a blackout," he says.

People still want to argue that you don't need a criminal defense attorney if you're innocent?

 

[wondering1]

sbm

"Thanks" is not enough.



People still want to argue that you don't need a criminal defense attorney if you're innocent?

umm..yes? I am quite certain that you could question most people without food or sleep for several days (not 21 hours) and they STILL would not confess to a murder they did not commit. And of course that doesn't really happen in the US -- at least that I've never heard of it . I don't know the statistics, but I feel confident that false confessions to capital crimes are the exception to the rule by more than a long shot. If you can't be questioned for a day or less without confessing to a murder you didn't commit...well, you've got some other serious issues, imo....

 

[Dee10]

From this is sounds to me like they are willing to give immunity to DeDe, anyone else interpret it that way? They have already talked to her for a number of hours. Did she not tell them where she was??? Interesting.

"Prosecutors later said they would be willing to work with her attorney as they seek to learn more from Spicher regarding her whereabouts June 4 during an approximately 90-minute period when she abruptly left her gardening job at a Northwest Portland home and couldn't be reached by cell phone. They also are interested in Spicher's contact with Terri Horman after Kaine Horman left the house in late June.

http://www.oregonlive.com/portland/index.ssf/2010/08/multnomah_county_shericomb_thr.html