BBM. I totally agree with you. The expert testimony about the blood on the pajama fleece top and bottom is not going to change. What is most likely to change will the defense's approach to it.
JMO
Jason Young to get new trial #2
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BBM. I totally agree with you. The expert testimony about the blood on the pajama fleece top and bottom is not going to change. What is most likely to change will the defense's approach to it.
JMO
I think whomever murdered Michelle is mentally ill. Whatever they did afterward would be also be a reflection of their sick mind.
I'm not sure why you think only another family member could be responsible for Michelle's murder. There have been many other murders where the killer took a shower or fixed a snack, iow, made themselves right at home after the murder. One of the Petit killers actually took the mother to the bank before bringing her back to the house and killing her.
JMO
Well one could argue that virtually anyone that murders out of callous disregard for the victim (i.e. not in self defense, etc) is mentally ill.
But the question still remains: what is the motivation for cleaning CY? In the cases you describe, the motivation is to show a sense of superiority over the victim. What is the motivation for cleaning CY?
sunshine05
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Yes, there are more photos. Here are a couple of close-up images. I have also looked at them from the Dateline episode.
2) Most of the prints are heading in or are sideways. None are heading out of the bathroom. You can also see some that are just the toes and a group where they are all overlapped (appears to me that someone was holding her and making those prints).
3) There is some blood right outside the bathroom on the carpeting but there is not a trail of CY's prints leading to the bathroom and that is why there is speculation that she was carried to the bathroom. If I have time, I will find it. I am pretty sure Klinkosum discussed this during closing arguments, possibly in the 1st trial. Also, when the video is shown at trial of the house, the investigator never points the camera toward the floor to show a trail of footprints. There wasn't a trail. There are photos of the area of the bedroom floor where you can see the purple chemical that makes blood appear and you can see some random large prints on the floor but not a trail of CY's prints.
4) Yes, evidence contradicts it as "all over the house" would include the downstairs, right? There aren't any bloody prints down there. They were limited to the area near the body (the two different shoes prints), some small ones on the carpet in JY's closet and then the very dark ones on the bathroom tile.
A first responder is trained to notice. Meredith testified she did not see any blood on CY. That's a matter of court record now and that bell can not be unrung.
That would include cleaning up Cassidy, whose bloody footprints were found in the bedroom and a hallway bathroom.
Wake County sheriff's deputy Scott Earp one of two officers first to arrive at the Young house testified that he was caught off guard when Fisher told him she had not cleaned the girl.
"I think I expected a yes out of it," he said Wednesday. "I thought that was kind of odd."
Fisher testified that she found her niece barefoot and wearing pink fleece pajamas without a diaper or underwear and that she did not appear to have any blood on her.
Read more at http://www.wral.com/specialreports/michelleyoung/story/10702549/#2kIWxwBDWz257QXM.99
sunshine05
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We would need to see a trail of CY walking from the body to the bathroom, not some random smudges unless she was doing large jumps to get herself there. Since the prints on the tiles are so dark and well defined, there would need to also be dark, defined prints on the carpet (unless she was carried or unless she can fly). It also appears that her feet were dipped multiple times as there is not a pattern of fainter prints as the blood is wearing off which is what I would expect to see with natural steps with a substance on ones feet. The steps are not natural.
With all due respect, I don't have a mental disorder. Our prisons do house those who do. I certainly don't know the motivation for brutally murdering a pregnant mother in her home and don't know the motivation for why a killer decided to play Mommy to a toddler.
JMO
Thanks for those photos and you are right! It's weird how some of the footprints overlap the same foot, such as the right foot just past the doorway, yet they face the same direction.
My bolding. Did I suggest that you do? Not sure the origin of this statement...
Yes, there are more photos. Here are a couple of close-up images. I have also looked at them from the Dateline episode.
2) Most of the prints are heading in or are sideways. None are heading out of the bathroom. You can also see some that are just the toes and a group where they are all overlapped (appears to me that someone was holding her and making those prints).
3) There is some blood right outside the bathroom on the carpeting but there is not a trail of CY's prints leading to the bathroom and that is why there is speculation that she was carried to the bathroom. If I have time, I will find it. I am pretty sure Klinkosum discussed this during closing arguments, possibly in the 1st trial. Also, when the video is shown at trial of the house, the investigator never points the camera toward the floor to show a trail of footprints. There wasn't a trail. There are photos of the area of the bedroom floor where you can see the purple chemical that makes blood appear and you can see some random large prints on the floor but not a trail of CY's prints.
4) Yes, evidence contradicts it as "all over the house" would include the downstairs, right? There aren't any bloody prints down there. They were limited to the area near the body (the two different shoes prints), some small ones on the carpet in JY's closet and then the very dark ones on the bathroom tile.
Thanks for the photographs.
A few observations:
1. I don't think anyone can say what is a "natural step" of a 2 year old. There are all kinds of possibilities as to how those particular footprints ended up the way that they did.
2. I don't see any evidence of lack of footprints between the bedroom and the bathroom. In fact, it is pretty clear from the one photograph that there are footprints that are going from the carpet into the bathroom (as you mentioned). You cannot make a conclusive statement that there were no footprints between the bedroom and the bathroom unless there is a photo of the carpet between the bedroom and the bathroom.
3. One thing that strikes me as odd is that there are footprints behind the door, or under the door.
4. It seems pretty clear to me that there are bloody footprints on the stepstool. What does that stepstool go to? Could CY have gotten up on the stepstool then wiped her feet with water from wherever that leads?
That is blatantly false. MF testified in court that she saw dried blood on CY's toes. This is part of the record and "that bell can not be unrung".
Were there any adult footprints identified in the bathroom? I don't think so. It was covered with her tiny footprints and swipes on the back of the bathroom door.
You asked me a question and I answered it. I can only speculate as to what motivated Michelle's killer to commit such a brutal, heinous act. For whatever reason you have decided the killer did not "have a sense of superiority over the victim." I'm not sure how you can come to that conclusion considering the fact that the killer failed at the attempt to strangle her.
I can only speculate why they would then play Mommy to her child. Perhaps it was out of a sense of superiority to the victim that you have concluded is absent.
It is my opinion the killer is deeply mentally disturbed.
JMO
I didn't write the article but I did provide the link.
Here is another article with a direct quote. I don't believe it is in dispute that the little footprints in the bath were made by the BOTTOM of CY's feet. If there was only dried blood in her nail beds, that is an indication the bottom of her feet had been cleaned.
"She had dried blood in the nail beds of her feet," Fisher testified.
http://abc11.com/archive/8534183/
Here is the testimony:
http://www.wral.com/specialreports/michelleyoung/video/10699052/
At the 14 minute mark. Note she says a "tiny bit of blood" although I would argue this is subjective.
Just to be clear, I never accused you of having a mental disorder. I do not understand the reason for your statement "With all due respect, I don't have a mental disorder." Given that I never suggested that you did, it seems like an unnecessarily accusatory statement.
As I stated, I think most killers are mentally disturbed. So I wouldn't disagree with your statement.
Contrary to your accusation, I DID NOT decide that "the killer did not have a sense of superiority over the victim." I said that the examples you provided were for killers that did have a sense of superiority over the victims. There is no indication that this particular killer had a sense of superiority over the victim, but that is different than concluding that he/she/they didn't.
I can speculate that the killers NEVER played Mommy to the child, but rather he/she/they killed MY without even realizing that the child was there.
Finally, there is a massive difference between someone believing they have superiority over the victim versus someone killing in the commission of another crime, such as attempted rape or robbery.
BBM. You asked me about a motive and I can't possibly crawl into somebody's sick mind to find it even if it is there.
I only provided the Petit murders as an example and I certainly don't believe whether they had a "sense of superiority over the victims" really mattered. Killers who commit heinous crimes don't always have a motive. They just do it. It seems to be a straw man argument. We'll have to agree to disagree and move on.
BBM. My gosh, you are right! Those prints are very dark and also very complete. Which means the blood was very wet when the prints were made. Of course it would have rubbed off at least partially on the carpet in the hallway and should have been less intense in the bathroom.
If her feet were indeed dipped into her mother's blood, that is just another reflection of the sick, sick, sick mind of whomever did this. Jenna Nielsen's murder was just six or so months later and it was just as senseless and that killer hasn't been caught.
JMO
Killers almost always have a motive. I have never heard of a single killer that "just did it", there is always something going on in their head that makes someone kill. And it isn't a straw man, it goes to the heart of who killed MY. "Agreeing to disagree" isn't really an option when you are attempting to figure out and punish who committed the murder, as punishing the wrong person while letting the actual murderer go free is almost as heinous as the original act itself.
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