Jodi Arias Trial discussion, #3

[Straitfan]

Well, he only made one comment after she moved out of his town, and I didn't see any comment to beg her to come back. Just saying.

Wow, I am getting tired. Good-Night Everyone. fftobed:

Look at her pics and comments...sadly he should have ran and fast..

 

[HarvestMoon]

Has anyone seen the sad little house that she lived in in Yreka ?

 

[kkdj]

Battered woman. Good try. She battered Travis and then drove to the next guy and made out with him like nothing was amiss.

Ugh.... I wonder if her power and violence was a turn on to her.
Creeped out just thinking about it!

 

[dog.gone.cute]

I don't know. This presents jodi as some mentally fragile, put upon woman who predictably snapped. But the evidence we know of that has been or is going to be presented paints a picture of a cunning user, a conniving fraud, a frightening impersonator or human beings.

Do you hear her talk? So calmly, so sweetly? Trying so hard to steer LE the wrong direction, just days after she brutally destroyed another living soul? And what about the planning involved? Does that all sound like a fragile mess who just couldn't take the pain anymore as a result of being used or does it sound like a sociopathic monster who wanted something, couldn't have it so she decided to take revenge by decimating what she couldn't have?

BBM:

:goodpost::goodpost: Excellent points ... this is a great description of JA ... you "nailed" her !

Catching up here tonight ... and THANKS to ALL for the updates !

See y'all tomorrow !

:seeya:

 

[claudicici]

Well, he only made one comment after she moved out of his town, and I didn't see any comment to beg her to come back. Just saying.

Wow, I am getting tired. Good-Night Everyone. fftobed:

we don't know about private messages or phone calls though...

 

[dog.gone.cute]

My gosh. Imagine this: He's in the shower, naked, with a girl taking photos of him, urging him on, "This will be so sexy, baby." Then BAM, she stabs him in the heart. In shock, he grabs the knife and stumbles up, to get away, to get a breath, to live, to survive. He lurches, with minutes of life left, to the sink, where he futilely coughs up blood, straining to breathe, hoping he will make it. But, to make matters impossibly worse, he begins to jerk as he feels the knife being stabbed viciously into his back, once, twice, three times, four, five six, seven, on and on and on.

His life blood is literally slipping away, but the human instinct to try to survive is great, so he claws around and weak-kneed, falls slowly to the ground. He continues to feel the knife stabbing him, and he can't stop it, but he crawls, pathetically trying to get away. Then, the worst of it all, he feels his murderer straddle him. What is she going to do know? In a second, he knows as he feels her hand jerk his scalp back and feels the knife slice into his neck, so strong, so hard, that his head is almost cut off. He sinks to the ground and he dies. His body is then dragged back to the place he tried to escape and a bullet is put into his face, into his brain. One last indignity.

This happened to a man. A human being. A once sad kid who had druggie parents but who was miraculously rescued by his grandmother who loved him and his siblings and taught them her faith which became so important to him. He was imperfect, and had faults. He was possibly even hypocritical at times. But he had dreams like we all did. He saw a bright future filled with kids and love and life. He was a brother, a grandson, a friend. And as his body was slashed to death in a shower stall, ALL of that was taken from him.

THAT is disgusting. THAT is horrific. That is one of the saddest things imaginable.

:rocker: Excellent ! And nominating gitana1 to give this as the closing statement for the State !

:rocker:

 

[SwampMama]

I have to take the time to give Kudos to everyone here for all of the information and insight that you provide. I don't have cable at home and my internet here is the boonies doesnt allow for me to watch the trial live online so you guys have been an absolute blessing for me.
Thanks so much to everyone and all of the contributions you make to WS.

 

[BritsKate]

Good points made on Dr Drew about Co-dependence. Takes two to tango.

I really, really have a problem with the whole codependency theory in either abusive relationships or relationships with disordered persons. In truth I am probably over-sensitive to it but I believe a relationship with an abuser or an afflicted personality is so far removed from normal (complete with gas-lighting, crazy-making and brain washing) that codependency just becomes a way of excusing the abuser and blaming the victim. Being in an intimate relationship with either is enough, by most people's accounts, to cause them to question their very reality. Many of the 'symptoms' used to establish codependency (also not listed in the DSM) are also known effects of withstanding long term abuse. MOO

http://www.aic.gov.au/media_library/publications/proceedings/27/dear.pdf

Typically in abuse cases where an abused person (not always a woman btw) has reached a point in their abusive relationship where they kill in self defense there are signs to others that abuse is in fact happening. For instance with OJ, several knew without Nicole telling them that OJ was abusive to her by seeing the bruises and witnessing the interaction between between the two in public. This is what I was referring to when I said someone that saw the abuse. Anyone that saw the two of them together would/should be able to pick up on something being wrong based on how they interacted together.

I agree with the long distance thing. No way in hello that someone who was abused, got out away from that abuse, would drive 1000 miles to go back to their abuser. It just does not happen, imo.

MOO

Thank you for clarifying that. I had it in my head friends actually saw him abusing her...I wasn't thinking of more subtle indications.

Chris Coleman killed his two sons and wife because the Ministries he worked for would fire him if he got a divorce to marry his mistress. He wanted to keep his important security job.

Travis took a big risk taking sexy pics with Jody. He apparently trusted her more than he should have. I'm surprised Jody didn't try to blackmail him. He was in good standing in the church and on the job. She could have sent those pics to everybody, but she decided to go see him and hold a knife to his heart. She didn't want to just hurt him, but destroy him.

I was just citing the Coleman case a few days back. I know Chris' father is a pastor but I wonder if his job was important because of his faith or because he made over 100k a year. :waitasec:

My thoughts on JA and Travis:

I come from a fairly religious background and went through a period of being quite religious myself (not just spiritual but religious). I had friends in those religious circles who would engage in sex with someone on the periphery and keep it secret. My roommate was the 'peripheral' person who corrupted quite a few guys that I knew in college. For some reason, guys found her irresistible and would see her behind their girlfriends' backs, etc. At least two of those guys are now ministers.

So when I see someone like JA and Travis, I do think that she corrupted him in the sense that he had never experienced anything like this before (whether he was a virgin or not, I think their relationship pushed the limits of anything he had ever done). She was the aggressor, the teacher. I do think he got tired of it after awhile and that his spiritual self and his morals and what he wanted longterm in a woman finally helped him come to his senses (not sure 'help' is the right word here since he lost his life...). But I think he tried to break it off for those reasons. And she flipped. She would not take 'no'. Climbing through the dog door?!? That's pretty desperate.

He didn't know how to get away from her. The more attention he brought to the situation, the more chance there would be that someone in the church may find out about the sexual relations. I'm not up on his background and his being a motivational speaker, but if it's true as Ryan said today that Travis was flown in to a seminar, then Travis was good at what he did and didn't want to chance bringing attention to this 'sinful' relationship. And that was his mistake: trying to handle someone like JA on his own, instead of letting LE know, instead of moving, instead of installing security/cameras, etc.

While some of the pictures show him smiling, the one of him in the shower (which I assume was taken that last fateful night?) depicts a man who is very angry and/or afraid. I think by that point in time, he had had enough but she was bossing him around and he was too nice of a guy to say get the f out of here. Plus I think she is/was extremely manipulative and controlling, and he was no match for her in that area so he just did whatever she wanted.

This is just my opinion and I could be off base. I jumped in here kinda late so I'm not up to speed on everything.

Thank you so much! It is extremely difficult to explain the inability to just walk away from someone who has PD. To me disordered persons (much like abusive personalities) are predators who study their prey - they know just which buttons to push to manipulate people to their will. It reminds me of a spider and fly scenario and unfortunately, once the fly realizes who the spider is, they're already stuck in its web. The spider of course has bided its time well compiling evidence against the fly, plotting its strategy, should the fly try to escape.

My ex used my love of my family to manipulate me. He'd 'suggest' telling those I loved what I was 'really' like. Whatever matters most to the individual is usually weaponized.

This is JMOO. Travis may have said some terrible things about Jodi to her face, but she was a manipulative stalker that would not fade from his life. People who don't respect boundaries or take strong hint-hints will eventually force you to try the rude, mean approach. They still might not go away! I'm very interested to find out if Travis was really at all interested in hearing or seeing her again, other than she owed him some money. Jodi makes it sound like a mutual thing they were both continuing, but in reality Jodi was throwing herself at him, IMO.

BBM

I think this is true even in abusive or disordered relationships. There's sometimes a misconception of 'Well if you're so afraid of him why would you...?' but in reality there comes a time where self-preservation can take a back seat to anger and frustration.

I believe (though have heard little about them yet) Travis' emails were born of anger and frustration.

---------
ALL JMO

 

[ErnestBorgnine]

I think the only place religion has in the trial is for the defense to try to prove that there was another side to Travis, a side that he hid from the church/friends/family. Could there be another side that he hid from girlfriends - an abusive side? I don't think they'll have much success with this path because I don't think JA has defensive wounds, plus there is almost always someone else who can verify someone's abusive/controlling tendencies. And so far, there is no one else backing that up regarding Travis. Plus her own actions afterwards speak otherwise: if you had killed someone in self-defense, why not notify LE? How could you visit someone else just hours later as if nothing happened? To me, that speaks volumes. If it was self-defense and completely unexpected, it would have rattled her to the core. But it didn't. She was her normal self, having small talk with people, saw another man, etc.

Karla Homolka/Bernardo is an interesting case for this kind of behaviour. She and her soon-to-be-husband killed a girl several days before they were married. She smiled happily/normally in all the pictures. She wanted a happy marriage and thought nothing of peppering it with multiple murders and rape. She talked about the murders (in her confession, post-plea bargain) in such a matter of fact way. It was like painting the house.

She also claimed abuse, which was present towards the end of her marriage, but it was later determined that she was doing a lot of the luring, drugging, and raping too. The police bought her story until the video tapes were found....

Also, she showed little common sense at key points after she made her plea bargain. At one point, she had to give LE a tour of her house to show where "her husband committed the crimes", and what did she wear.... a woman's version school girl outfit. Ironic because one of their 4 victims was wearing a real girls school outfit when she was kidnapped by Karla and Paul.

And don't get me started with her sexual behaviours. Very aggressive.

 

[BritsKate]

Well if we're talking about Karla Homolka I believe the fact that her younger sister was one of their victims points directly to just how disposable people are to these personalities.

Diane Downs, Casey Anthony, Darlie Routier, Susan Smith, Susan Wright, Jodi Arias, Mary Winkler, Karla Homolka, Aileen Wuornos, Estibaliz Carranza, Karen Otmani are all cut from the same cloth in my opinion. (Scary that there are so, so many more that could be listed.)

As an aside I found this article to be very interesting: http://news.nationalpost.com/2012/1...mates-and-most-didnt-suffer-abuse-study-finds

“We’ve got a stereotype about domestic violence … that the oppressor or perpetrator is the male and when female violence happens, it’s a reaction against male violence,” he said. “The stereotype is so strong, that when you look at the actual data, you’re shocked.”

 

[claudicici]

She also could have moved on from her relationship with Travis and shacked up with Ryan.... No death required, Travis was ok with that. She apparantly wasn't...

I think going to Ryan's after the murder was just part alibi but mostly she was still punishing an already dead Travis.I also think Ryan was not completely honest wih his testimony,Mimi may not have been either.I think that's why religion is an important part of this trial because I just don't think the witnesses are completely honest.No way was a girl like Jodi just a snuggle buddy for Ryan.I also think even though Travis broke up with Jodi he was still leading her on and it would hurt his ego to see her with someone else even though he moved on.It's just my opinion based on a lot of guys are like that.
She killed him 3 times and still continued killing his ego afterwards.

 

[KatFish]

I have been reading most of the post on here, and I thought it would be a good idea to become a member. I sometimes have trouble reading everything, but I had a question. Has there been any mention of the 20 photos taken of him in the shower? Was he actually posing? Was there ever any mention of his hands? I can't help but question if his hands were tied up or not. The last picture we see of him appears to have his arms up instead of on his sides. The dragging photo also shows his hands up, but are they like that because they are bound together in front. If these posing in the shower pics show his hands, I guess that would answer my question, but haven't really found that info anywhere.

I believe she tied him up and made him get in the shower while using the gun to make him do this. The knife was there for cutting the cords or rope/tassles later. I am wondering if he is sitting in the shower bound while she is threatening to use the gun, but the gun jams. He makes a run for so she grabs the knife. She starts to stab him in the back and he turns to fight while still bound. I can't help thinking that this is why he was unable to fight her off as well. When he tries to grab the knife, she cuts his hands and stabs him in the chest. He tries to flee the seen, but she runs after him desperate to take him down. I think she cut his throat at the end of the bathroom hall, and that is where we catch her dragging him back. I can't explain why his head is off the ground unless she has him by the hair or scalp.

Has anyone noticed these two red line around his neck while sitting in the shower? You can see them from the front and right side. It makes me think something sinister was going on prior to the shower. I can't help thinking she tortured him somehow. I could be wrong. I noticed another forum mentioned that those lines were folds in his neck. I am not so sure. I don't see them in any of his other pics.

Okay I went on long enough. Just wanted to know if any mention was made of the shower pictures prior to the last one.

 

[WhoaIsMe]

I don't think she really cared about the check being cashed. I think she was just trying to further establish that she hadn't seen Travis or heard from him. I'm sure she knew the check was still there. She just thinks she soooo smart.

Thanks again for the transcribing and comments. They have so much more info than can be had while just watching a recap on a tv.

 

[LambChop]

I don't know, was that rage an accumulation of a hell of a lot built up anger?

Sure would like to know what those two twins in the back of the courtroom know about Jodi Arias.

I don't know. It is possible up to this point in her life she has been able to call the shots in her relationships. If she tires of a partner, she moves on. She certainly did in the last relationship she was in. This one was different. She really wanted this one. He was a great catch. In the money, nice looking, great home, everything she wanted for herself and he took it away from her by rejecting her and telling her she just was not what he was looking for. That's being honest with someone. It's not working out, let's move on. It appears her rage developed because he did not want her around.

His crime is, he should have had her arrested the first time she broke into his home and gotten a restraining order on her as a stalker. Problem was he did not want to get her into trouble. And she thanked him, how? Many of us here at WS's have seen this type of behavior before.

I can't believe she left a check at the scene for his BMW saying he was going to sell it to her and she wanted to know if she could still have it and also if they intended to "cash" her check. That is cold. jmo

 

[BritsKate]

I've wondered, with all the misconceptions of men and intimate partner violence, if Travis would even have been issued a restraining order had he chosen to pursue one.

 

[popsicle]

warning: graphic photo

 

[sumbunny]

RIP Travis
Justice will prevail

This picture haunts me.
It looks as though he had been crying

 

[popoju]

:shocked2opsicle ewwwwww!!!!

 

[oceanblueeyes]

I think going to Ryan's after the murder was just part alibi but mostly she was still punishing an already dead Travis.I also think Ryan was not completely honest wih his testimony,Mimi may not have been either.I think that's why religion is an important part of this trial because I just don't think the witnesses are completely honest.No way was a girl like Jodi just a snuggle buddy for Ryan.I also think even though Travis broke up with Jodi he was still leading her on and it would hurt his ego to see her with someone else even though he moved on.It's just my opinion based on a lot of guys are like that.
She killed him 3 times and still continued killing his ego afterwards.

BBM

On this part I respectfully disagree.

I dont think Travis was upset about anything Jodi would be doing. He had talked her into moving far far away from him where he would not know nor did he care what she did. If he really cared he easily could have asked her to move closer by so he could keep an eye on her. Nope, all the "oh Travis is jealous' was Jodi's wannabee fantasies and more lies.

This is one of the things I noticed that Jodi does when she talks........she tends to make it all about her as if to imply Travis was jealous of her when there is nothing to support it.

It just sounds good as if he still cared for her and she knew he didnt. He wasnt sitting there worrying what she was doing or going to do with anyone ..he was going off to Cancun with another pretty woman.

Jodi and Travis were no longer an item if they really ever were in the short 5 months......life was going on for Travis just like it did before she came into his life and in the end destroyed it because she knew HE DID NOT care nor was he jealous of his stalker either, imo.

 

[revlis]

While watching this trial I can't help but think of the movie "Fatal Attraction"... I keep seeing Glenn Close tell Michael Douglas that she won't be "IGNORED"!!! ~~~just sayin