Knowing all you know today about this case who do you think really killed JonBenet?

[UKGuy]

Two stagers:
Patsy - latex or hair-coloring gloves.
John - brown cotton gloves.
Since Patsy tied the cord IMO, her gloves worked for that. John's gloves worked for other staging purposes.
IMO

Britt,
Excellent insight!


.

 

[SapphireSteel]

I don't know much about the garrote but could it have been already lying around?

Was it the sort of thing a boy scout would do, without the paintbrush of course...but as a craft or sailing type thing?

Or a kid idly fiddling with string one day? I seem to recall my brothers doing macrame. Maybe it wasn't made for the job, it just happened to be nearby?

 

[OpenMind4U]

Look at the photo pg 125 Kolar book: Looks like rubber gloves sitting on the edge of the sink in JB's room. Also, from book "JonBenet - The Police Files", pg 37 Patsy stated to Steve Thomas that she thought she colored her hair on Christmas (25th) afternoon.

So, I'd say Patsy would have easily had the rubber gloves she needed on hand in order to keep herself tidy during any part of the crime activities.

MM, thank you for bringing Photo 16 (on page 125 of Kolar's book) for discussion...And you're correct: looks like rubber gloves are there, right on the counter, next to the sink. Very interesting, isn't? Photo 16 is JBR's bathroom on 2nd floor, right?...What is the reason for PR to color her hair in JBR's bathroom when she has a huge master bath on the 3rd floor?....something is 'fishy' here...

...plus, it's interesting how Kolar described this photo: 'Photo 16 - JonBenet bathroom. Note toothbrush, toothpaste, and red sweater on right counter. (Not pictured is toilet paper in the bowl of the toilet to the left of counter) Source BPD Case File.'

IMO, Kolar's reference to toilet paper IN THE BOWL of the toilet - was done on purpose. I think I know what he tried to tell us....:maddening:

 

[txsvicki]

She should have been colring her hair or working there packing on the scond floor if that's where the kids were playing. I doubt it. Patsy did make a point of placing herself there while burke was in his room with friends and jonbenet sat just outside his door playing with a jewley kit. Patsy had all the answers. I'd bet that jonbenet was allowed to be alone with boys and patsy off in other parts of the house.

 

[cami]

I believe that Patsy smacked her head against something in a rage... JR helped coverup because of the previous sexual abuse that he (JR) committed. I do not believe that BR had anything to do with it

That's what I believe, but I think it was the flashlight she held in her hand and she caught John in the act of the molestation that night.

Burke had nothing to do with it.

I have read Kolar's book and I can see how he came up with his theory that Burke was involved.

 

[azwriter]

I don't know much about the garrote but could it have been already lying around?

Was it the sort of thing a boy scout would do, without the paintbrush of course...but as a craft or sailing type thing?

Or a kid idly fiddling with string one day? I seem to recall my brothers doing macrame. Maybe it wasn't made for the job, it just happened to be nearby?

Sapphire, I have been saying from day one that the cord around her neck (I refuse to call it a garrote) was something Burke had made long before it was used Christmas night. My sis and I had one we made when we were youngsters. It pulled our sled, was used to swing from trees and my sis would take it along in order to put around the neck of a lost dog she pulled home to tell mom "Can we keep it? It followed me home."

I'm in agreement that this cord was not something fashioned that night. It was in exsistence beforehand. And, it belonged to Burke. Can't prove that, but do strongly believe it.

Just My O.

 

[Bonnette]

Sapphire, I have been saying from day one that the cord around her neck (I refuse to call it a garrote) was something Burke had made long before it was used Christmas night. My sis and I had one we made when we were youngsters. It pulled our sled, was used to swing from trees and my sis would take it along in order to put around the neck of a lost dog she pulled home to tell mom "Can we keep it? It followed me home."

I'm in agreement that this cord was not something fashioned that night. It was in exsistence beforehand. And, it belonged to Burke. Can't prove that, but do strongly believe it.

Just My O.

Completely agree. We think of it as a garrote because strangulation resulted from its use on this occasion. But that was not its original, or only, purpose.

 

[otg]

Sapphire, I have been saying from day one that the cord around her neck (I refuse to call it a garrote) was something Burke had made long before it was used Christmas night. My sis and I had one we made when we were youngsters. It pulled our sled, was used to swing from trees and my sis would take it along in order to put around the neck of a lost dog she pulled home to tell mom "Can we keep it? It followed me home."

I'm in agreement that this cord was not something fashioned that night. It was in exsistence beforehand. And, it belonged to Burke. Can't prove that, but do strongly believe it.

Just My O.

If this thing (thank you for not calling it "you-know-what") was in existence prior to it being used on JonBenet, how would you account for her hair being entwined in its cord wraps around the paint brush?
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[txsvicki]

What about the lack of touch dna on the cord except for what could be from packaging or while at the store? I've wondered if the paint stick was used to place a foot on to hold that end taut while pulling the the other end of the cord to strangle, and freeing up one hand to hold her body down if necessary. That would free up the hands and be even more indication that they knew jonbenet was still alive.

 

[Bonnette]

If this thing (thank you for not calling it "you-know-what") was in existence prior to it being used on JonBenet, how would you account for her hair being entwined in its cord wraps around the paint brush?
.

I'm not azwriter, but as one who shares az's theory...the you-know-what could have been used for many purposes, including prior "games" with JB that did not result in her death. Her hair could have been incorporated in the knot months or years before her murder.

 

[Kaybug]

I've always thought BDI, but I wasn't there, so I don't know and it's an extremely complicated case. I went with I'm still on the fence because I don't know.

 

[OpenMind4U]

What about the lack of touch dna on the cord except for what could be from packaging or while at the store? I've wondered if the paint stick was used to place a foot on to hold that end taut while pulling the the other end of the cord to strangle, and freeing up one hand to hold her body down if necessary. That would free up the hands and be even more indication that they knew jonbenet was still alive.

Good question!...IDK. Over all these years, we're slowly learning about 'new' evidences and we still don't know the WHOLE truth. BPD is holding a lot of 'secrets' in their 'safe'. With Kolar's book, we learned a lot, but still not all.

Here is another example of the 'new' but not WHOLE evidence. Brown cotton fibers! Kolar's book, page 229 (bold and cap are mine):

Brown cotton fibers has been found on FOUR ITEMS closely associated with the BODY of JonBenet and implements used in her MURDER. Lab technicians thought the fibers similar to pair of cotton work gloves'.

- Which 4 items could be closely associated with JBR BODY?
- Which 4 items could be implements used in JBR MURDER?

This one statement from Kolar's book creates thousand of possibilities...with never ending puzzle...

...and by the way, why BR clothes has never been requested for examination and never mention in any interviews/depositions? Do we even know what BR was wearing to FW party?....Looks like BR involvement wasn't considered in early investigation at all!...or it was but we don't know about?...:banghead:

 

[txsvicki]

I take it to mean the brown fibers are on everything. The clothing and blanket are four items and the implements are cord, stick, and tape. I wonder if fibers were on the flashlight and he's not telling or if he separates the hand ties into a separate implement.

 

[OpenMind4U]

I take it to mean the brown fibers are on everything. The clothing and blanket are four items and the implements are cord, stick, and tape. I wonder if fibers were on the flashlight and he's not telling or if he separates the hand ties into a separate implement.

Makes sense! How about these four? BODY - crotch area (panty?) and neck (white shirt?); IMPLEMENTS MURDER - cord and stick.

 

[txsvicki]

That makes even more sense.

 

[dodie20]

Good question!...IDK. Over all these years, we're slowly learning about 'new' evidences and we still don't know the WHOLE truth. BPD is holding a lot of 'secrets' in their 'safe'. With Kolar's book, we learned a lot, but still not all.

Here is another example of the 'new' but not WHOLE evidence. Brown cotton fibers! Kolar's book, page 229 (bold and cap are mine):



- Which 4 items could be closely associated with JBR BODY?
- Which 4 items could be implements used in JBR MURDER?

This one statement from Kolar's book creates thousand of possibilities...with never ending puzzle...

...and by the way, why BR clothes has never been requested for examination and never mention in any interviews/depositions? Do we even know what BR was wearing to FW party?....Looks like BR involvement wasn't considered in early investigation at all!...or it was but we don't know about?...:banghead:

1 thing about all the new evidence, is it makes this case seem less and less like an accident gone bad. And that's hard to take, kwim? I'm beginning to wonder if somebody didn't premeditate the whole thing, or at least premeditate between the bash and strangulation. 1 thing I kind of clung on to before, was the belief that at worst, this was a rage related death, now I don't know what to think. That 90 minute interval, has me rattled, to tell the truth. moo

 

[ILikeToBendPages]

MM, thank you for bringing Photo 16 (on page 125 of Kolar's book) for discussion...And you're correct: looks like rubber gloves are there, right on the counter, next to the sink. Very interesting, isn't? Photo 16 is JBR's bathroom on 2nd floor, right?...What is the reason for PR to color her hair in JBR's bathroom when she has a huge master bath on the 3rd floor?....something is 'fishy' here...

...plus, it's interesting how Kolar described this photo: 'Photo 16 - JonBenet bathroom. Note toothbrush, toothpaste, and red sweater on right counter. (Not pictured is toilet paper in the bowl of the toilet to the left of counter) Source BPD Case File.'

IMO, Kolar's reference to toilet paper IN THE BOWL of the toilet - was done on purpose. I think I know what he tried to tell us....:maddening:

Many women multi task while doing their hair. Pasty was probably packing for their trip the next morning.

 

[ILikeToBendPages]

OT a little bit...but while you was mention about JR plane, it was interesting to learn from Kolar's book that JR pilot (after learning about JBR 'kidnapping' early in the morning) was offering to fly-out to pick-up JR childrens (JAR and Malinda) so they wouldn't need to wait to board the commercial plane...but JR refused, saying he needs him here, to be ready for whatever... :banghead:

So why did John Ramsey bring them to Boulder then sending them back to Atlanta? John was trying to get them out of there as soon as he could, so why bring then there at that time during a kidnapping in progress.

 

[ILikeToBendPages]

1 thing about all the new evidence, is it makes this case seem less and less like an accident gone bad. And that's hard to take, kwim? I'm beginning to wonder if somebody didn't premeditate the whole thing, or at least premeditate between the bash and strangulation. 1 thing I kind of clung on to before, was the belief that at worst, this was a rage related death, now I don't know what to think. That 90 minute interval, has me rattled, to tell the truth. moo

They are two different incidents. One is the head bash unplanned and then a period of time for someone to think about and then end her suffering by killing her and that was premeditated.

 

[midwest mama]

They are two different incidents. One is the head bash unplanned and then a period of time for someone to think about and then end her suffering by killing her and that was premeditated.[/QUOTE

or " ..time for someone to think about and then finish her sufferering by killing her...." :hypno: