Kyron's General Discussion Thread for 2012-13

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gitana1 said:
It wasn't the letter though, that caused people to assume TH was involved. Instead, the letter revealed that indeed, TH was a suspect.

What caused many to feel TH was involved was a combination of the following:

1. That TH was the last parent to see Kyron.
2. That TH was the last person at all, who has come forward, to say they saw Kyron.
3. Her long, rambling ride through heavily forested areas, with a baby who was sick with an earache, according to both parents, on the day Kyron went missing, and then taking that same baby to a gym daycare to be cared for while TH worked out.
4. TH telling Kyron's teacher, in advance, that he had a doctor's appointment on the day he went missing, according to sources. (Which would cause the teacher to not be alarmed that he didn't show up for class. Note, a classmate of Kyron's stated to the media that Kyron told him he was leaving for an appointment that day, on the same day). Then, after the investigation began, stating the teacher was wrong and that he had an appointment the following Friday, because: "The past 2 weeks he's been acting really weird. Staring off into space. Can't remember anything. Walks into the room and then back out, stopping to stare and then move on. The doc thinks that he is having mini seizures and I made an appt on Thursday for next Friday to have him checked out.” However, neither parent has ever verified either appointment and Kaine has stated there was nothing wrong with Kyron. Desiree was unaware of such an appointment or that Kyron had been acting oddly. If such was true and Kyron was due to go to his mother that Friday, one would think TH would have alerted her in case he had anymore "mini-seizures" while with his mom that weekend. That's a pretty significant health issue she never brought up to Desiree. http://www.examiner.com/article/kyr...ri-horman-planned-kyron-s-disappearance-video
http://www.examiner.com/article/kyr...s-behavior-public-s-suspicions-timeline-video
5. TH being the only parent of the four to complain about the investigation and the polygraphs.
6. TH telling Desiree, on the day she failed a polygraph: "I want you to know, I loved your son." http://www.kptv.com/story/14917086/...t-terri-horman-6-01-2011?clienttype=printable (Note the past tense).
7. TH storming out of a second polygraph and suddenly refusing to cooperate further with the investigation.
8. TH sending e-mails, prior to Kyron's disappearance, indicating an extreme hatred of Kyron and talking about wanting to hurt him. http://www.katu.com/news/local/108352154.html
9. Kyron wetting the bed and becoming very upset when it was time to go back to his dad's and constantly stating he wanted to stay with his mom, in the months prior to his disappearance. http://www.drphil.com/shows/show/2069/
10. TH asking Desiree to take back custody of Kyron, shortly before he disappeared: http://www.drphil.com/shows/show/2069/
11. The MFH plot allegations.
12. TH failing to contest, at all, the MFH allegations and the allegations that she was involved in Kyron's disappearance, thereby acquiescing to a restraining order against her that barred her from having contact with her own infant daughter, effectively giving up custody of the child, and permanently affecting her ability to ever regain significant rights to her child, on the grounds that it might incriminate her.

Finally, I do not believe her attorney's were actually concerned about her implicating herself in something unrelated to Kyron (or the MFH plot) because contesting the restraining order would only require that she answer questions regarding those issues and I am unaware of any, other crimes she may be suspected of committing, so it's unlikely that questions rgeading the allegations we know of would lead down a rabbit hole to allegations of a totally unrelated crime.

Also, as a family law attorney, I can tell you that it takes a lot for a mother who actually loves her child, or wants her child, to give up custody. I can't imagine the incredible coincidence of:
a) Questions regarding Kyron's disappearance and/or the MFH plot leading to another, totally unrelated crime,
b) Such a crime being significant enough to cause TH to give up custody of her infant, rather than answer questions about an unrelated matter, on the off chance she may incriminate herself in another crime,
c) TH having committed an unrelated crime at the very same time that there are untrue MFH allegations and untrue allegations that she harmed her step-son,
d) TH actually telling her attorneys she was guilty of something at all (that's rarer than you might think, because defense attorneys do not ask the question. If they do, they are not allowed to ask questions of parties or witnesses that they know the answer will be a lie to. They can't make arguments indicating that the person is innocent, when they know he or she is not).

Listen, I know child custody litigation. I know divorcing parents. I know when you can keep your client off the stand in a criminal action and when you can't. This is a simple case to me. And a very clear one. If it takes more effort to twist and turn in order to find a possibility as to why a person is likely not guilty, then one must ask why it is necessary to make so many twists and turns. What's the motivation?

In this, as in many matters, I think the most simple explanation is the correct one. At a certain point, there are just too many factors pointing to guilt, to ignore reality.
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Your logic and organization are outstanding...Thanks for caring about Kyron and giving your time to clarify issues...for many.
 
Knox said:
Terri's Attorney's are going to attempt to trash Sanchez. They will use his need for a translator for all it's worth, i.e., "Mr. Sanchez misunderstood what Terri Horman was trying to say to him in the restaurant that day. She tried to clarify her intent in the last (sting) meeting, but again he misunderstood her".

I can just see how this is going to play out ...
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This could backfire on them. If he is sincere, his humble and brave testimony will endear him to all. After all, he refused her and the money.
 
They may not trash him - these are apparently some of the best attorneys in the state. From what I've seen, the most effective defense attorneys don't go out slinging mud and trashing people, they usually give the person enough rope to hang themselves (if it exists).

I'm very curious about Sanchez and what his testimony will reveal. I've found the whole murder for hire thing hinky and I've stayed on the fence. But he could hold key information that would push me off the fence. I feel like his testimony will either blow the case open and sink TH, or make LE look very bad. There's no middle ground on this one, I don't think.
 
Kaine Horman's lawyers will be able to call landscaper Rodolfo Sanchez as a witness to testify later this week about an alleged murder-for-hire plot he says Terri Moulton Horman concocted in 2010 as Terri Horman seeks temporary custody of her daughter.

But Terri Horman's lawyers will not be allowed to cross-examine Sanchez about his last 15-minute meeting with their client, organized as a sting operation by law enforcement after her stepson Kyron Horman's disappearance from Skyline School in June 2010, a judge ruled Monday.

http://www.oregonlive.com/portland/index.ssf/2013/12/post_389.html
 
AnaTeresa said:
They may not trash him - these are apparently some of the best attorneys in the state. From what I've seen, the most effective defense attorneys don't go out slinging mud and trashing people, they usually give the person enough rope to hang themselves (if it exists).

I'm very curious about Sanchez and what his testimony will reveal. I've found the whole murder for hire thing hinky and I've stayed on the fence. But he could hold key information that would push me off the fence. I feel like his testimony will either blow the case open and sink TH, or make LE look very bad. There's no middle ground on this one, I don't think.
Click to expand...

Also from Matou's story link above-
Houze said the deposition of the landscaper by Kaine Horman's lawyer has "opened the door'' for further questioning, especially since Kaine Horman's lawyers are using Sanchez's testimony to show that Terri Horman is an extreme risk to their daughter.

"They hung their hat on Rudy Sanchez,'' Houze said. "We're entitled to explore his story fully.''

Houze said Terri Horman has the right to question Sanchez's credibility. He also pointed out that Sanchez's deposition was taken through an interpreter.

"Is he to be believed or not?'' Houze asked. "Did he get some kind of deal with law enforcement in order to propel him to become an agent of law enforcement?

If Terri Horman's attorneys are not allowed to question Sanchez, Houze argued that the court is left with "an incomplete and self-serving account of events.'' He also pointed out that Terri Horman has never been charged with solicitation for murder.

http://www.oregonlive.com/portland/index.ssf/2013/12/post_389.html
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Ohhh, so much more at link. Engel is saying he tracked down Sanchez on his own, using info he obtained from the INTERNET
icon7.gif


"I now know how much money they have in their war chest,'' Engel said in court. "It's a lot of money.''
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Wonder what the above means? Is he intimating Terri also has money?
 
I think from my layman's POV that Engel has a really good point (and I'm banking on gitana weighing in on this for a legal side) - if he found the landscaper himself and only asked him questions about events that happened months before law enforcement ever interacted with him, why shouldn't that be a separate issue than a botched LE sting? The story he tells about his meeting with Terri wouldn't have been "tainted" by the later kidnapping or LE involvement. So that makes sense to me...

Also, Houze is saying that Kaine's side is "hanging their hat" on the landscaper, but IMO that's not the case at all. They have a much larger case than the MFH, even if the MFH is the most shocking part of it. As a custody evaluation minus the MFH, I still think Terri would have a hard time getting more than supervised visitation. Also remember Terri's attorneys have said she's not going to allow the standard psych evaluation. So I don't know what they do when someone refuses that, as far as their evaluation outcome.
 
Kyle Iboshi @KyleIboshi
Court docs indicate Terri Horman's parents testified in deposition they're bankrolling defense. Paid lawyers $250,000

Court records also revealed Monday that Terri was called for a deposition on Dec. 4. She repeatedly asserted her Fifth Amendment rights and refused to testify about her earnings or living expenses.

Therefore her parents were asked to give a deposition, which showed they spent $250,000 to retain her attorneys and continue to support her with no expectation of repayment.

http://www.kgw.com/home/Horman-divorce-hearing-looking-at-murder-for-hire-evidence-236054061.html
 
Knox said:
Also from Matou's story link above-
Ohhh, so much more at link. Engel is saying he tracked down Sanchez on his own, using info he obtained from the INTERNET
icon7.gif


Wonder what the above means? Is he intimating Terri also has money?
Click to expand...

My guess is that people have sent her money.

Think about how much Casey Anthony got.
 
human said:
My guess is that people have sent her money.

Think about how much Casey Anthony got.
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How much $$ did Casey get? I thought her money for lawyers was from selling pictures to the media, not from ordinary people.

Why would people send her money? I'm pretty sure she was the prime suspect since the beginning of the case....
 
eileenhawkeye said:
How much $$ did Casey get? I thought her money for lawyers was from selling pictures to the media, not from ordinary people.

Why would people send her money? I'm pretty sure she was the prime suspect since the beginning of the case....
Click to expand...
BBM - Fools and their money are soon parted in my only guess. Casey had people sending money for her commissary account and apparently she's been living off the kindess of idiots, I mean strangers, ever since she got out of jail. So, it wouldn't surprise me at all if people were sending money to TH. I just don't understand why anyone would want to do that. :banghead:
 
AnaTeresa said:
Sounds like some behind the scenes hardball. Wonder if there's some sort of deal being worked out?
Click to expand...
It appears that TH and her lawyers are getting nervous because of the landscaper's upcoming testimony.
 
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