link between Johnny G, other Iowa boys, and Jacob W?

[William R Thomas]

I do not belive anyone accused her of being menatlly ill to be mean or malicious. Caould you blame her if she was. She (in my soccer mom from podunk opinion) has been manipulated by people with sinister motives during a fragile period in her life. I blame them, not her, she hasn't done anything wrong. I harbor no bitternes towards her, I feel sorry for her. Lets face it, this high reaching pedo ring thing is a little out there for many reasons but this isn't the place for it. This thread is about the link between Johnny, and other missing boys from that area and time period, not conspiracy thories and Noreens mental state.

Does anyone have any information about murders of young boys in that area?

:banghead: :banghead: :banghead:

 

[cappuccina]

...terms such as "villainy" with mental illness.

I am not making such assertions; I am stating what is...Many people who have experienced events of unspeakable horror in their lives have something that is called post-traumatic stress disorder (PTSD). One of the hallmarks of this disorder is cognitive dissonace, defined here:

http://www.sciencedaily.com/encyclopedia/Cognitive_dissonance

No one is labeling Noreen Gosch as a bad personl the ONLY people to use perjorative adjectives with regard to mental illness are you and William Thomas. I am simply stating that she has a condition most likely resulting from the horrible circumstance of having her beloved son kidpapped, and most likely murdered.

I will give you the same homework assignment as I gave William Thomas:

"Your homework, William, should you choose to accept it, is to find 5 currently employed LE officers, and 2 folks who teach criminal justice, give them the two choices as to what happened to Johnny (abduction and murder by pedophile, or vast conspiracy theory, including but not limited to folks like our current President), and see which they think is more plausible and why...."

William, I am sorry that you are so frustrated with the logical statements 2 sisters is making....please explain...

2 sisters...I will do some research on this....Now, as far as Jacob Wetterling goes, there was a similar case near Jacob Wetterling's neighborhood that LE thinks might be connected...i.e., an "area" pedophile...The same could very well be true in the Johnny Gosch case, someone who lived in the area who was stalking children...

Case related to Jacob's:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jacob_Wetterling

///snippet///

"The investigation into Jacob's abduction has continued. In 2004, some new reports hit the local press. A long-held belief that the abductor got away in a car was thrown out. It was also revealed that another boy had been in a similar incident nearby. Jared (then 12) was sexually assaulted about ten miles away in Cold Spring, Minnesota earlier in 1989..."

In other words, they now beleive that Jacob's abductor walked to where the boys were. As we've seen in many other cases, it is extremely common for pedophiles to be serial offenders, with the crimes escalating over a period of time...

 

[HeartofTexas]

Cappucina, I am not the least bit interested in accepting a homework assignment from you.

 

[cappuccina]

...nor do it - I leave it for anyone with an open mind who wants to gather information, then..

 

[cappuccina]

University of WI...Let's not get into a pissing contest, OK...I am here to try and seek alternative explanations to the grand conspiracy theory in this case...

2 sisters... Given that there seemed to be a man following Johnny and perhaps other kids, this is most likely a case of someone in the area targeting children - I will see what else I can find...

 

[William R Thomas]

University of WI...Let's not get into a pissing contest, OK...I am here to try and seek alternative explanations to the grand conspiracy theory in this case...

Then maybe you should go over to the "no conspiracy..." thread. You might find the audience you seek over there.

 

[HeartofTexas]

What do we know about Marc Allen, a 13 year old boy who was abducted from the Des Moines, Iowa in 1986?

 

[inquiringmindz]

What do we know about Marc Allen, a 13 year old boy who was abducted from the Des Moines, Iowa in 1986?

Good Morning, H. of T.

Not a whole lot of info on Marc Allen, just basically the same thing repeated. I'll see if I can dig up anymore later.

http://www.iowaonline.state.ia.us/mpic/Controller.aspx?cmd=personDetailCommand&id=240

http://www.doenetwork.us/cases/34dmia.html

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=13979&page=2

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=37558&highlight=marc+allen

 

[2sisters]

:banghead: :banghead: :banghead:

not everyone is going to agree with you, get over it.

 

[HeartofTexas]

Thanks, Inquiring. That was the first time I'd heard anything about Mark Allen. I had previously heard of Wetterling and Eugene Martin, but never Mark Allen. I, too, will be looking for info on him now, too.

 

[HeartofTexas]

He is also referred to as Marc James Warren Allen sometimes, but I still can't find much about him. Odd.

 

[2sisters]

He is also referred to as Marc James Warren Allen sometimes, but I still can't find much about him. Odd.

Iknow, i have tried too but there is nothing.

 

[HeartofTexas]

There's not even anything in Newspaper Archives, which is extremely odd. You would at least think there would be something on the day he disappeared (in 1986).

 

[HeartofTexas]

Here's a post Richard did in 2005 on Eugene Martin. There certainly are a lot of similarities with Johnny Gosch's case on Martin. And if you combine this information with the info from the post I did yesterday (where someone (named Soda) told Noreen Gosch two months in advance that another boy would be kidnapped the 2nd week of August... and again, I am not stating that conversation actually took place... just that that is what Noreen said), then this is indeed interesting.

EUGENE MARTIN Des Moines, IA missing since 12 Aug 1984
A very closely matching crime to the Johnny Gosch kidnapping is that if the abduction of Eugene Martin, also a newsboy, also of Des Moines, Iowa. Eugene was on his paper route early in the morning of 12 August 1984. He was seen talking to a white male who was "about the age of his father". There was nothing suspicious about it, but in a matter of twenty minutes, Eugene disappeared and has not been seen since.
Usually, Gene delivered the papers with his older stepbrother, but on this occasion, he was alone.
Eugene got up that morning at 4:30 and left the house at 5:00. Between 5:45 and 6:05, he was seen folding papers and talking to a man on teh corner only a few blocks from his house. Between 6:10 and 6:15, the bag was on the ground with 10 folded papers in it and Eugene was gone. When calls came in to the paper manager that people were missing their morning newspapers, the manager went out, found the bag and delivered the papers. He did not start looking for Eugene again until 8:40AM. Classic case of someone finding something obviously wrong, but not thinking it was important enough to mention.
Some investigators feel that the two cases (Gosch and Martin) are connected, but there is no physical evidence to link the two.

------------------
EUGENE MARTIN
Non-Family Abduction
DOB: Aug 17, 1970
Missing: Aug 12, 1984
Age at time missing: 14
Age Now: 34
Sex: Male
Race: White
Hair: Brown
Eyes: Brown
Height: 5'0" (152 cm)
Weight: 110 lbs (50 kg)
Missing From: DES MOINES, IA, United States

 

[HeartofTexas]

Here's a television archive from 1984 suggesting a link between the disappearance of Johnny Gosch and Eugene Martin:

Headline: Iowa / Newspaper Boys Disappearance



AbstractStudio) Report introduced
REPORTER: Peter Jennings (Des Moines, Iowa) Disappearance Sunday of newspaper boy Eugene Martin and similarity of case to that of Johnny Gosch in 1982 here examined; films shown. [Don MARTIN - fears the worst.] Circumstances of Gosch's disappearance recalled. [Noreen GOSCH - notes such disappearances are ntnwide.] Similarities between disappearances of Martin and Gosch reviewed. [sergeant Bill MULLIN - notes force's effort.] Community response to Martin's disappearance, incl. reward offered by "Des Moines Register", outlined. [Don. MARTIN and WIFE - react to psychological toll of son's abduction.]
REPORTER: Karen Burnes

Begin Time:06:26:20 pmEnd Time:06:28:10 pmTVN Record Number:91195Copyright:Abstract and Metadata (c) 1984-2006 Vanderbilt University

http://openweb.tvnews.vanderbilt.edu/1984-8/1984-08-13-ABC-19.html

 

[cappuccina]

....just as it is surmised that there is a connection between the Jacob Wetterling case and a similar case that happened a few miles from him.

The fact that two cases may be connected means that the perpetrator is likely the same; it does not mean that there is a conspiracy, rather a "serial" offender (which most pedophiles are, BTW...)...

 

[Pablo]

[font=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif][size=-1]On a cached web page, someone asks:[/size][/font]
[font=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif][size=-1][/size][/font]
"This is a poster for a missing boy in Des Moines. His name is "Marc Allen"....... He is the third missing boy in a six year period in Des Moines Iowa. The first was Johnny Gosch in 1982, the second was Eugene Martin in 1984 and Mark Allen in 1986. This boy did not receive an investigation by police nor any publicity. We want to know WHY ... WHY .... WHY?"

Good question considering HBO's show addressing the first 2 boys, and the additional results of Gosch's abduction. As if the first boy didn't cause laws and milk cartons to change across the US.

Is the information regarding Marc Allen's abduction incorrect (no abduction, was found, or whatever)?
Surely his abduciton couldn't have been hushed up. (what?)
Could Marc Allen be the boy on the left in Noreen's picture's?

The picture would have to have been taken 4 years after Johnny’s abduction.

Doesn’t quite jive, right?

 

[beakiebean]

Marc isn't listed on the NCMEC website which I've always thought was odd. I guess I assumed that police or his family believed him to be deceased and that's why they didn't do a lot of publicity but that was simply my assumption.

3 boys, each taken two years apart, about the same age, each with brown hair, slim/average build. Johnny in 1982, Gene in 1984, Marc in 1986. Then it stops. Then Jacob Wetterling in 1989. What if it is the same person? He could have been in jail for a period causing a longer stretch between abductions or he simply could have moved to MN and had to establish a life up there and that made it hard for him to abduct a child. Or he could have been elsewhere in the country victimizing another child?

 

[HeartofTexas]

Here's a name I've never heard before, although I doubt it has anything to do with Johnny Gosch or Eugene Martin's disappearance. It does, however, have connections to problems with paperboys in DesMoines, so I thought I would put it here.

Philadelphia Daily News (PA) - October 16, 1984

NEWSPAPER AIDE FIRED IN PROBE Iowa's largest newspaper today released the name of of an employee who allegedly admitted taking advantage of seven young paperboys but authorities said they didn't think the man was involved in the disappearance of two youths.Private investigator Sam Soda told a news conference yesterday an employee of the Des Moines Register, identified by the newspaper in today's editions as Frank Sykora, 37, of Des Moines, "slept with" as many...

This is the second time I've seen the name of PI Sam Soda. Doubt it means too much, though.

http://nl.newsbank.com/nl-search/we/Archives?p_action=list&p_topdoc=11&d_sources=all

 

[Pablo]

HoT,

You might want to look a little more at the name Sam Soda (and Paul Bishop).

Sam Soda has some significant in the Franklin thing, and I would say therefore this thread.

I beleive this is from a Gunderson site:

"At a later time, Bonacci correctly identified a picture of
Sam Soda of Des Moines, Iowa, from a line-up of 20 photographs, as the
man who brought the photograph of Johnny to the motel. Bonacci also
indicated Sam was there watching as Johnny was repeatedly sexually
abused while being photographed. (Rusty Nelson reported Sam Soda as the
man who introduced him to Larry King.)"

I think Paul was using the name George when he was relatively recently arrested.

Noreens story about Paul Bishop is very interesting.