Missouri - The Springfield Three--missing since June 1992 - #10

[OzarksTrailBlazer]

I've said this a few times. The women could have been spied by the perpetrators in or outside of George's. I dont think Janis can shed any light on this case due to fact that she was in bed sleeping, and she is not a professional investigator. As for the grave robbers, I feel the same. I cant see where they tie into this case, unless there was some sort of stalking taking place with Suzie's exboyfriend.

You can't see where a group of men linked directly to the top informant (Garrison) on the case ties in? Whaaaa? You think investigators bailed out drug dealing trash on a whim? And beyond that you put MORE stock into George's which is full of holes? I fail to understand how that's a logical path but to each their own.

Springfield is not that big. Dusty and Mike were linked directly to one of the most notorious criminals in the area that year and his gang of violent bikers (Mike admittedly dated a gang member's daughter--so that's two connections).

There's numerous motives I see. Silence. Revenge. Jealousy. Take a pick. NOT sexual assault. Not with multiple women of varying ages at once.

 

[Santachrist]

SantaChrist,

Do you think it's possible someone had a reason to use the women as a possible revenge motive to get back at you and/or Dusty? Or maybe even something Joe did? For something maybe unbeknownst to the public? In the previous thread, you stated Joe didn't work and made a lot of money robbing people. Definitely some questions about him--especially if he was the mastermind behind robbing graves for fun. Could he have ticked someone off? How about Dusty--Dusty have any enemies?

Well, I never said Joe made a lot of money robbing people. He couldn’t even pawn the things he stole himself. He had to beg Dusty to use his ID to sell the stuff. I doubt he even made $100 from selling stolen items while he was in Springfield.
Joe didn’t make many friends while he was in town. My friends only seemed to tolerate him while he was there. Nobody really missed him after he left. He never really hung out with anyone outside of our circle either aside from socializing with people we didn’t know at a party or two.
Granted, it upset a lot of my friends (and myself) when it came out that he ratted on us, but none of us tried to get even with him by kidnapping three women and attempting to frame him for it.
Dusty couldn’t think of any enemies that would try to frame him either. If he thought there was someone, he would have told the police long ago.
Let me be absolutely clear about this. If we knew about anyone that we thought hated us and was trying to set us up we would have let the police know about them while we were being questioned by SPD. We cooperated as much as we could and told them everything we thought was relevant.

 

[Ibiz]

You can't see where a group of men linked directly to the top informant (Garrison) on the case ties in? Whaaaa? You think investigators bailed out drug dealing trash on a whim? And beyond that you put MORE stock into George's which is full of holes? I fail to understand how that's a logical path but to each their own.

Springfield is not that big. Dusty and Mike were linked directly to one of the most notorious criminals in the area that year and his gang of violent bikers (Mike admittedly dated a gang member's daughter--so that's two connections).

There's numerous motives I see. Silence. Revenge. Jealousy. Take a pick. NOT sexual assault. Not with multiple women of varying ages at once.

Ozark Trail? First you said George's wasnt possible because some police officers said so. Was this the same officers that was visiting physics and tarot card readers to try and solve the case? Then you said that George's wasn't possible because Janis said so, but when did Janis start running the investigation?

 

[OzarksTrailBlazer]

Ozark Trail? First you said George's wasnt possible because some police officers said so. Was this the same officers that was visiting physics and tarot card readers to try and solve the case? Then you said that George's wasn't possible because Janis said so, but when did Janis start running the investigation?

I said George's isn't possible because of the timeline the woman gave. The early reporting of the case is some of the best facts to draw from because they were straight from the police conferences with the press each day. You clearly are having trouble reading, Ibiz, I said that Janis suggested everyone look at only facts when giving fresh eyes to the case. Nothing to do with George's--just echoing her point, which I agree with. The tarot card junk was sensationalism 48 Hours stuff that cops weren't actually taking seriously. 48 Hours wasn't reporting all the facts, they reported a few driveby comments because they wanted ratings, not facts based investigation. Case-in-point: spending over 30 minutes covering a kidnapping that was resolved in the time it took them to edit the show and time spent on the rent-controlled apartments with the woman scared for her young child. So why put ANY credence to the tarot card junk one way or another? Cops didn't actually believe that. Have you ever researched beyond the TV shows and newspapers? I suggest the whole "Boots on the Ground" approach.

 

[OzarksTrailBlazer]

Well, I never said Joe made a lot of money robbing people. He couldn’t even pawn the things he stole himself. He had to beg Dusty to use his ID to sell the stuff. I doubt he even made $100 from selling stolen items while he was in Springfield.
Joe didn’t make many friends while he was in town. My friends only seemed to tolerate him while he was there. Nobody really missed him after he left. He never really hung out with anyone outside of our circle either aside from socializing with people we didn’t know at a party or two.
Granted, it upset a lot of my friends (and myself) when it came out that he ratted on us, but none of us tried to get even with him by kidnapping three women and attempting to frame him for it.
Dusty couldn’t think of any enemies that would try to frame him either. If he thought there was someone, he would have told the police long ago.
Let me be absolutely clear about this. If we knew about anyone that we thought hated us and was trying to set us up we would have let the police know about them while we were being questioned by SPD. We cooperated as much as we could and told them everything we thought was relevant.

I appreciate your answers, Santa. I am not sure I believe that Joe wandered around on his own with no friends. Why did you ride back with Joe to IL if he was such a crappy friend? If Dusty's girlfriend's mom was dating Garrison, I can only assume he came in contact with him several times--considering she lived with her mom. It would be pretty hard not to, especially if his girlfriend considered Steve somewhat of a "bodyguard" type. (if that is true)

 

[the_p0ssum]

Recall where you read this interesting coincidence ? Could be helpful if possible. TY

The relationship was pointed out on a FB page related to Angela Hammond. I then dug a bit deeper, and it appears to be accurate. Nigel's dad was/is Walter's brother. She even had a 2017 FB post bemoaning the passing of her uncle with a link to his profile.

Interestingly, Walt's obituary never mentioned Cheryl. There are also some curious comments on the WS thread here about his actions in the immediate aftermath of her disappearance. But we'd need someone with more direct knowledge to comment on that.

 

[Santachrist]

I appreciate your answers, Santa. I am not sure I believe that Joe wandered around on his own with no friends. Why did you ride back with Joe to IL if he was such a crappy friend? If Dusty's girlfriend's mom was dating Garrison, I can only assume he came in contact with him several times--considering she lived with her mom. It would be pretty hard not to, especially if his girlfriend considered Steve somewhat of a "bodyguard" type. (if that is true)

Neither of us (Joe or myself) had a car after mine broke down a week or two before Xmas of 91. We rode around with Dusty or my sister when we needed to go anywhere or we walked. Joe knew nobody when we first moved to Springfield in early December of 91 and he left in early March of 92. Not a lot of time to make many friends.
At the time, I thought Joe was telling the truth when he said he told the cops nothing. He wanted to go back to Chicago and I wanted to avoid going to jail so I thought it was a good idea to get out of Springfield. That’s why I went back to Illinois with him.

I dont know exactly how many times Dusty and Garrison met or interacted. Dusty says not many but has never given me a specific number. That might mean 2 or 3. It might mean 5 or 6. I don’t know exactly, just that it wasn’t many.

 

[dale4172]

The relationship was pointed out on a FB page related to Angela Hammond. I then dug a bit deeper, and it appears to be accurate. Nigel's dad was/is Walter's brother. She even had a 2017 FB post bemoaning the passing of her uncle with a link to his profile.

Interestingly, Walt's obituary never mentioned Cheryl. There are also some curious comments on the WS thread here about his actions in the immediate aftermath of her disappearance. But we'd need someone with more direct knowledge to comment on that.

TY !

 

[Bookkeeper2]

Neither of us (Joe or myself) had a car after mine broke down a week or two before Xmas of 91. We rode around with Dusty or my sister when we needed to go anywhere or we walked. Joe knew nobody when we first moved to Springfield in early December of 91 and he left in early March of 92. Not a lot of time to make many friends.
At the time, I thought Joe was telling the truth when he said he told the cops nothing. He wanted to go back to Chicago and I wanted to avoid going to jail so I thought it was a good idea to get out of Springfield. That’s why I went back to Illinois with him.

I dont know exactly how many times Dusty and Garrison met or interacted. Dusty says not many but has never given me a specific number. That might mean 2 or 3. It might mean 5 or 6. I don’t know exactly, just that it wasn’t many.

Suzanne gave/signed her cemetery vandalism statement March 5, 1992. It also included information regarding the Subway break-in/stolen tools - which according to your information - burglaries then occurred between early Dec 91 and early March 92. Yet, neither you nor Joe had transportation. How did that go down? You've also said if Joe went anywhere - it was with you. Who assisted whom? Were there other names? Who took receivership of the stolen property? LE asked. Traded for drugs? Dustin borrowed Suzanne's car several times - why, when, for what?

Two women declared dead - one presumed dead. Dustin being vague.

TIA

 

[OzarksTrailBlazer]

Suzanne gave/signed her cemetery vandalism statement March 5, 1992. It also included information regarding the Subway break-in/stolen tools - which according to your information - burglaries then occurred between early Dec 91 and early March 92. Yet, neither you nor Joe had transportation. How did that go down? You've also said if Joe went anywhere - it was with you. Who assisted whom? Were there other names? Who took receivership of the stolen property? LE asked. Traded for drugs? Dustin borrowed Suzanne's car several times - why, when, for what?

Two women declared dead - one presumed dead. Dustin being vague.

TIA

I too would like to know this. Mike you make it sound like Dusty and Joe were "at the wrong place at the wrong time" yet none of these stories make any sense. The Subway in that document would make a pretty far walk from Clay's sister's place. We do know Suzie had a car.....

 

[dale4172]

Suzanne gave/signed her cemetery vandalism statement March 5, 1992. It also included information regarding the Subway break-in/stolen tools - which according to your information - burglaries then occurred between early Dec 91 and early March 92. Yet, neither you nor Joe had transportation. How did that go down? You've also said if Joe went anywhere - it was with you. Who assisted whom? Were there other names? Who took receivership of the stolen property? LE asked. Traded for drugs? Dustin borrowed Suzanne's car several times - why, when, for what?

Two women declared dead - one presumed dead. Dustin being vague.

TIA

Bookkeeper, you might want to look into that particular Pawn-shop on Sunshine and the owner going to Mexico after Federal violations. Then check out "Safe-House Pawn" on Kearney Street for further insight, IMO.

 

[dale4172]

Thanks, Dale M. I’m guessing that with your previous comment:

you suspect that the GGMC or some other biker gang is somehow involved. The GJ3 were connected to the GGMC thru Garrison. Maybe you should go talk to them. Flesh things out. Find out what Sherrill could have possibly known that would cost her life.

Well, I never said Joe made a lot of money robbing people. He couldn’t even pawn the things he stole himself. He had to beg Dusty to use his ID to sell the stuff. I doubt he even made $100 from selling stolen items while he was in Springfield.
Joe didn’t make many friends while he was in town. My friends only seemed to tolerate him while he was there. Nobody really missed him after he left. He never really hung out with anyone outside of our circle either aside from socializing with people we didn’t know at a party or two.
Granted, it upset a lot of my friends (and myself) when it came out that he ratted on us, but none of us tried to get even with him by kidnapping three women and attempting to frame him for it.
Dusty couldn’t think of any enemies that would try to frame him either. If he thought there was someone, he would have told the police long ago.
Let me be absolutely clear about this. If we knew about anyone that we thought hated us and was trying to set us up we would have let the police know about them while we were being questioned by SPD. We cooperated as much as we could and told them everything we thought was relevant.

That's a very good option !

 

[dale4172]

It will be RICO up your butt if it makes it that far.

 

[Santachrist]

Suzanne gave/signed her cemetery vandalism statement March 5, 1992. It also included information regarding the Subway break-in/stolen tools - which according to your information - burglaries then occurred between early Dec 91 and early March 92. Yet, neither you nor Joe had transportation. How did that go down? You've also said if Joe went anywhere - it was with you. Who assisted whom? Were there other names? Who took receivership of the stolen property? LE asked. Traded for drugs? Dustin borrowed Suzanne's car several times - why, when, for what?

Two women declared dead - one presumed dead. Dustin being vague.

TIA

That’s a whole lot of questions. I’ll try not to miss any. Answers in bold.

....neither you nor Joe had transportation. How did that go down?
We walked our neighborhood late at night. Mostly just bored, up late, exploring.

You've also said if Joe went anywhere - it was with you. Who assisted whom?
We were both able to walk unassisted.

Were there other names?
Not understanding what you mean?

Who took receivership of the stolen property?
A local pawn shop.

Traded for drugs?
Nope. Doesn’t work that way. Small time drug dealers only want cash.

Dustin borrowed Suzanne's car several times - why, when, for what?
Because it was a GT model. Sporty and fun to drive. I don’t know when, specifically.

Dustin being vague.
I don’t press him for details. I asked him how many times he saw Garrison, he said not many. That was a good enough answer for me. To me that means less than ten. If you want more specific answers I suggest you ask him yourself.

 

[Santachrist]

I too would like to know this. Mike you make it sound like Dusty and Joe were "at the wrong place at the wrong time" yet none of these stories make any sense. The Subway in that document would make a pretty far walk from Clay's sister's place. We do know Suzie had a car.....

The Subway in question was literally right behind my sisters place. Less than one block away. You don’t know what you are talking about.

 

[thx4_medic_Babby]

Can someone fast-track the plot regarding the Subway robbery? I’ve seen it mentioned a few times, but have yielded in finding any data regarding the involved parties.

 

[Bookkeeper2]

That’s a whole lot of questions. I’ll try not to miss any. Answers in bold.

....neither you nor Joe had transportation. How did that go down?
We walked our neighborhood late at night. Mostly just bored, up late, exploring.

You've also said if Joe went anywhere - it was with you. Who assisted whom?
We were both able to walk unassisted.

Were there other names?
Not understanding what you mean?

Who took receivership of the stolen property?
A local pawn shop.

Traded for drugs?
Nope. Doesn’t work that way. Small time drug dealers only want cash.

Dustin borrowed Suzanne's car several times - why, when, for what?
Because it was a GT model. Sporty and fun to drive. I don’t know when, specifically.

Dustin being vague.
I don’t press him for details. I asked him how many times he saw Garrison, he said not many. That was a good enough answer for me. To me that means less than ten. If you want more specific answers I suggest you ask him yourself.

Doesn't surprise me. I expect nothing less.
More manipulative games - your speciality.

 

[cherrymeg]

Suzanne gave/signed her cemetery vandalism statement March 5, 1992. It also included information regarding the Subway break-in/stolen tools - which according to your information - burglaries then occurred between early Dec 91 and early March 92. Yet, neither you nor Joe had transportation. How did that go down? You've also said if Joe went anywhere - it was with you. Who assisted whom? Were there other names? Who took receivership of the stolen property? LE asked. Traded for drugs? Dustin borrowed Suzanne's car several times - why, when, for what?

Two women declared dead - one presumed dead. Dustin being vague.

TIA

Have you read something others haven't?

 

[cherrymeg]

Doesn't surprise me. I expect nothing less.
More manipulative games - your speciality.

Who do you think you are? And if you know something share or stop with the accusations.

 

[Bookkeeper2]

Who do you think you are? And if you know something share or stop with the accusations.

Ditto.