MO - Furious Friends Demand Answers After 3 Men Found Dead at Kansas City Home Days After Watching Football Game, January 2024 #4

[PrairieWind]

BBM. My point is that LE in this case haven't found the source of the illegal drugs. All three victims died. It is more than obvious the host of the party wasn't the source of the illegal drugs.

JMO

I think you have it right. The guys took a substance that they didn't know what exactly it was. But whoever brought the drugs that evening is one of the deceased and there is no way to find the next link in the chain. There is just no where to go with it. It seems clear it was not the homeowner, no matter how much the families of the deceased want him charged. I think the police saying it is not being investigated as a homicide is maybe a bit of police-talk. It certainly COULD be investigated as a homicide, but they aren't.

 

[Cedars]

I'm not sure that prosecuting street-level dealers (low level dealers) will make any real difference in stopping the sale of fentanyl-laced drugs. Seems the source lies higher up.
MOO

I agree that it's not the same priority as finding a deliberate murderer. Police can't just neglect to investigate homicide. IMO, dealers aren't lacing drugs with fentanyl in order to kill anyone - they may not even know they're selling a bad batch.

It's a very different situation here than, for eg, Kouri Richins, who purchased fent more than once, in order to deliberately kill her husband.

And dealers in illegal drugs are hardly liable to any 'standards of care', such as a pharmacist would be, if one made up a toxic prescription.

I think it's gravy if LE can trace the dealer, and the drug squad will be happy to take one off the streets. But the party guys might have gotten it from some middleman, all word of mouth.
At best, LE might have a burner phone number, and that phone is dead, and the person might have moved somewhere else once they recognized a customer in the news. I doubt they'll assign extra personel to the case, but the drug squad will be most familiar with the scene, and who might have been the dealer. And then, they might not want to break their cover until they can round up a whole operation.

JMO

 

[sunspun]

The guys took a substance that they didn't know what exactly it was. But whoever brought the drugs that evening is one of the deceased and there is no way to find the next link in the chain. There is just no where to go with it.

LE has the phones of the deceased, and I would expect the last call/s on at least one of their phones was related to procuring the drug. Unless they just talked to the dealer in person or something, but that would probably be unusual.

 

[PrairieWind]

LE has the phones of the deceased, and I would expect the last call/s on at least one of their phones was related to procuring the drug. Unless they just talked to the dealer in person or something, but that would probably be unusual.

I would guess that one of them brought it with them, source unknown.

 

[sunspun]

I would guess that one of them brought it with them, source unknown.

Well, that's what I'm saying... if one of them brought it with them (which I also suspect), then I would expect that person's phone to show contact with the dealer, texts and/or calls. I don't think the friend who would have brought it is "THE dealer" (top dog/big fish), and I know he didn't make/cook/grow it himself at home... so he bought it from someone. Maybe he just knows the right street corner to pull up to at the right time, and just buys it on the fly, no need to make contact in advance. Or maybe he lives next door so just stops by in person, no phone contact needed. But I just kinda think the more common way would involve some phone contact to check availability/put in his order/arrange the purchase. I also believe it's still possible that the other "friend" who came by the house that night might have brought it with him, possibly by request of one or more of the guys there.

 

[IceIce9]

Well, that's what I'm saying... if one of them brought it with them (which I also suspect), then I would expect that person's phone to show contact with the dealer, texts and/or calls. I don't think the friend who would have brought it is "THE dealer" (top dog/big fish), and I know he didn't make/cook/grow it himself at home... so he bought it from someone. Maybe he just knows the right street corner to pull up to at the right time, and just buys it on the fly, no need to make contact in advance. Or maybe he lives next door so just stops by in person, no phone contact needed. But I just kinda think the more common way would involve some phone contact to check availability/put in his order/arrange the purchase. I also believe it's still possible that the other "friend" who came by the house that night might have brought it with him, possibly by request of one or more of the guys there.

In many cities drug seekers just pull up to a known drug corner, pay the money and go on their way. Dug seekers know where to find drugs, no phone calls necessary.

In Cincinnati, for example, there is a well known intersection where drugs are openly sold on all four corners. A different drug sold on every corner. People pull up in their vehicles, and cash is exchanged for drugs.

 

[PrairieWind]

Well, that's what I'm saying... if one of them brought it with them (which I also suspect), then I would expect that person's phone to show contact with the dealer, texts and/or calls. I don't think the friend who would have brought it is "THE dealer" (top dog/big fish), and I know he didn't make/cook/grow it himself at home... so he bought it from someone. Maybe he just knows the right street corner to pull up to at the right time, and just buys it on the fly, no need to make contact in advance. Or maybe he lives next door so just stops by in person, no phone contact needed. But I just kinda think the more common way would involve some phone contact to check availability/put in his order/arrange the purchase. I also believe it's still possible that the other "friend" who came by the house that night might have brought it with him, possibly by request of one or more of the guys there.

I'm sure you are correct. But it doesn't appear that the police are interested in pursuing any further. Sad. But I don't think these families are going to ever get the justice that they want.

 

[MyBelle]

I'm sure you are correct. But it doesn't appear that the police are interested in pursuing any further. Sad. But I don't think these families are going to ever get the justice that they want.

I think it is part of a massive ongoing criminal investigation and that's why LE isn't talking about it.

JMO

 

[branmuffin]

Doesn't matter if they took the toxic drugs voluntarily in many cases that I've seen prosecuted. The people in my news article took them voluntarily too, (see below). There were four laying on the floor dying from the drugs they took. Two were revived, and one of them was found to be responsible for giving or selling the others the drugs. Two died and now that survivor is being charged with two murders and it carries a life sentence. The two dead most likely took the drugs voluntarily too. This is not uncommon. The MI families want to push LE to find the supplier in this case. ​

An Example--

Man, 63, charged in connection to two overdose deaths in North Park

A 63-year-old man was charged in federal court on Thursday in connection to the fentanyl overdose deaths of two people at a North park residence in 2022.

fox5sandiego.com

I don't believe the answer to this problem is binary. Which is what many people want: 'You bought a drug and some of your group died? Then you are a murderer! And you deserve to be tried for murder!'

Yet, that way of thinking doesn't track for me. If five people are going to party with drugs and booze then I wouldn't be surprised if there is some informal way of deciding who's bringing what. That it's more like a crap shoot as to who ends up buying the drugs.

It could go like this: Friend 1: 'My guy's not around this week, he's visiting family. What about that other guy, Friend 2? See if he has any product. We'll settle later, okay?'

And just like that, the dynamics change. Friend 1 comes thisclose to OD'ing on a bad batch of drugs and he skates. But Friend 2 who was a replacement buyer is now either dead and off the hook or survives and becomes a defendant in a murder trial.

I, too, believe the three deceased friends were no strangers to drug use. I also believe their friends and various family members know of their drug use and may dabble themselves but not only are they grieving they are in CYA mode because they are protecting their kids and the memory of the deceased men. Denial is a very strong drug. IMO

 

[Curious Me]

...There were four laying on the floor dying from the drugs they took. Two were revived, and one of them was found to be responsible for giving or selling the others the drugs. Two died and now that survivor is being charged with two murders and it carries a life sentence....snipped​

Man, 63, charged in connection to two overdose deaths in North Park

A 63-year-old man was charged in federal court on Thursday in connection to the fentanyl overdose deaths of two people at a North park residence in 2022.

fox5sandiego.com

San Diego woman sentenced for selling fentanyl that killed a man

A San Diego woman was sentenced in federal court Friday to over a decade in prison for selling fentanyl that led to the death of a man.

fox5sandiego.com

I don't believe the answer to this problem is binary. Which is what many people want: 'You bought a drug and some of your group died? Then you are a murderer! And you deserve to be tried for murder!'

Yet, that way of thinking doesn't track for me. If five people are going to party with drugs and booze then I wouldn't be surprised if there is some informal way of deciding who's bringing what. That it's more like a crap shoot as to who ends up buying the drugs....snipped​

We both agree that how they, the three men, got the drugs that most likely ended up killing them might've come from a casual connection. They may have used a connection that was not a usual supplier, maybe one man took others money to buy some party drugs, or whatever, making it a crap shoot. What doesn't track with you?

Now take note of the reality that in the articles I posted, and particularly the first article, the part I discussed in my above quote-- in that first news article I quoted above---There were four people, but only one was charged as being responsible. That person is being charged with murder of two others.

So, what I'm saying is supplying someone with toxic drugs, even casually as friends, could get the person supplying then charged with murder. That is happening more than you may realize. You may not agree with it, but there's been many cases of that happening. In today's world in the U.S., it is best to hesitate to supply anyone with drugs. LE can trace where those toxic drugs came from and charge what may have been a casual contact connection person, not even a big distributor, that just so happened to supply that one fatal time. The second news article, the woman, got a much lighter sentence, but she's still going to do 12 yrs. for selling a gram. ​

I, too, believe the three deceased friends were no strangers to drug use. I also believe their friends and various family members know of their drug use and may dabble themselves but not only are they grieving they are in CYA mode because they are protecting their kids and the memory of the deceased men. Denial is a very strong drug. IMO​

I certainly can't defend one way or the other whether the three did drugs regularly or not. The public is not naïve to think someone forced them to do drugs. Regardless, the family will probably push to find out where the toxic drugs came from, and I can understand they want someone held responsible. Even if the family is in denial, there's probably not a cover up that those drugs came from an outside source. Or are you saying one of the three manufactured the drugs? No? Then-- Whoever sold or gave one of the three the drugs could be prosecuted for murder in the future. MOO, it all depends on how far LE wants to take this and how hard the families will push.

This is all MOO and I definitely respect your opinions and right to express them.
​

 

[Cedars]

Man, 63, charged in connection to two overdose deaths in North Park

A 63-year-old man was charged in federal court on Thursday in connection to the fentanyl overdose deaths of two people at a North park residence in 2022.

fox5sandiego.com

San Diego woman sentenced for selling fentanyl that killed a man

A San Diego woman was sentenced in federal court Friday to over a decade in prison for selling fentanyl that led to the death of a man.

fox5sandiego.com

We both agree that how they, the three men, got the drugs that most likely ended up killing them might've come from a casual connection. They may have used a connection that was not a usual supplier, maybe one man took others money to buy some party drugs, or whatever, making it a crap shoot. What doesn't track with you?

Now take note of the reality that in the articles I posted, and particularly the first article, the part I discussed in my above quote-- in that first news article I quoted above---There were four people, but only one was charged as being responsible. That person is being charged with murder of two others.

So, what I'm saying is supplying someone with toxic drugs, even casually as friends, could get the person supplying then charged with murder. That is happening more than you may realize. You may not agree with it, but there's been many cases of that happening. In today's world in the U.S., it is best to hesitate to supply anyone with drugs. LE can trace where those toxic drugs came from and charge what may have been a casual contact connection person, not even a big distributor, that just so happened to supply that one fatal time. The second news article, the woman, got a much lighter sentence, but she's still going to do 12 yrs. for selling a gram. ​

I certainly can't defend one way or the other whether the three did drugs regularly or not. The public is not naïve to think someone forced them to do drugs. Regardless, the family will probably push to find out where the toxic drugs came from, and I can understand they want someone held responsible. Even if the family is in denial, there's probably not a cover up that those drugs came from an outside source. Or are you saying one of the three manufactured the drugs? No? Then-- Whoever sold or gave one of the three the drugs could be prosecuted for murder in the future. MOO, it all depends on how far LE wants to take this and how hard the families will push.

This is all MOO and I definitely respect your opinions and right to express them.
​

Thanks for those links. It's clear that in San Diego, at least, they're not tolerating anyone supplying fentanyl.

I notice, in both cases, the person charged was deliberately bringing 'pure' fentanly, they knew it was fentanyl, the users knew it was fentanyl.

I guess the assumption in this case has been the men probably thought they were ingesting some other kind of drug, that was unlikely to be lethal, but it had been tampered with/poisoned with fentanyl.

So, in that case, I think LE have to try to trace back to whomever was in a position to know that fenty was in the cocaine, or whatever.

JMO

 

[branmuffin]

Man, 63, charged in connection to two overdose deaths in North Park

A 63-year-old man was charged in federal court on Thursday in connection to the fentanyl overdose deaths of two people at a North park residence in 2022.

fox5sandiego.com

San Diego woman sentenced for selling fentanyl that killed a man

A San Diego woman was sentenced in federal court Friday to over a decade in prison for selling fentanyl that led to the death of a man.

fox5sandiego.com

We both agree that how they, the three men, got the drugs that most likely ended up killing them might've come from a casual connection. They may have used a connection that was not a usual supplier, maybe one man took others money to buy some party drugs, or whatever, making it a crap shoot. What doesn't track with you?

Now take note of the reality that in the articles I posted, and particularly the first article, the part I discussed in my above quote-- in that first news article I quoted above---There were four people, but only one was charged as being responsible. That person is being charged with murder of two others.

So, what I'm saying is supplying someone with toxic drugs, even casually as friends, could get the person supplying then charged with murder. That is happening more than you may realize. You may not agree with it, but there's been many cases of that happening. In today's world in the U.S., it is best to hesitate to supply anyone with drugs. LE can trace where those toxic drugs came from and charge what may have been a casual contact connection person, not even a big distributor, that just so happened to supply that one fatal time. The second news article, the woman, got a much lighter sentence, but she's still going to do 12 yrs. for selling a gram.

I certainly can't defend one way or the other whether the three did drugs regularly or not. The family will probably push to find out where the toxic drugs came from, and I can understand they want someone held responsible. Even if the family is in denial, there's probably not a cover up that those drugs came from an outside source. Or are you saying one of the three manufactured the drugs? No? Then-- Whoever sold or gave one of the three the drugs could be prosecuted for murder in the future. MOO, it all depends on how far LE wants to take this and how hard the families will push.

This is all MOO and I definitely respect your opinions and right to express them.
​

I don't believe anyone who attended that party manufactured the drugs. What I'm basically saying is when you have a group of individuals who use drugs on a regular basis you are going to have various ways how those drugs are bought. All of them at various times could be the one who buys the drugs. Or one person could be the regular supplier to their friends. So you have to ask yourself what the definition of a dealer or trafficker is in this particular case. If one of those friends became the de facto supplier of a drug to a group of people would LE focus on that individual? Even if they were just a street level supplier? When John Belushi died, the woman who administered a fatal dose to him was convicted of involuntary manslaughter. Yet she was a user just like Belushi was and the circumstances could easily have been reversed, with Belushi being charged for the same crime if she overdosed.

Hundreds of people all over the US have been charged with murder or manslaughter for providing drugs to people who have overdosed. Yet, those very same people are users themselves. Using drugs at the same time the deceased did. So to me, that's when the binary response seems to rear its head. Without any evidence many family members of the deceased are pointing a finger at JW.

The article below shows how LE goes forward investigating illegal drug overdoses illustrating it is a long game where the street level provider is just the first step in an investigation up the chain. It is critical that family members provide insights into the deceased person's behaviors prior to death. LE isn't trying to besmirch the memory of deceased family members but need honest insights.

“By their very nature, these cases are difficult, because, sadly, the person who ingested the substance has died and we’re left to rely on the circumstantial evidence to figure out what happened. It’s difficult to obtain a conviction when the defense attorney can argue the victim could have picked up the lethal dose from anyone.”

https://www.dea.gov/stories/2023/2023-02/2023-02-08/overdose-death-investigations-challenge-dea-agents-bring-justice

My personal opinion in this sad case is that when LE said “This case is 100% NOT being investigated as a homicide,” Kansas City police Capt. Jake Becchina told Fox News Digital, is it's a true statement rather than a deflection of an investigation into JW.

 

[Artis]

I don't believe anyone who attended that party manufactured the drugs. What I'm basically saying is when you have a group of individuals who use drugs on a regular basis you are going to have various ways how those drugs are bought. All of them at various times could be the one who buys the drugs. Or one person could be the regular supplier to their friends. So you have to ask yourself what the definition of a dealer or trafficker is in this particular case. If one of those friends became the de facto supplier of a drug to a group of people would LE focus on that individual? Even if they were just a street level supplier? When John Belushi died, the woman who administered a fatal dose to him was convicted of involuntary manslaughter. Yet she was a user just like Belushi was and the circumstances could easily have been reversed, with Belushi being charged for the same crime if she overdosed.

Hundreds of people all over the US have been charged with murder or manslaughter for providing drugs to people who have overdosed. Yet, those very same people are users themselves. Using drugs at the same time the deceased did. So to me, that's when the binary response seems to rear its head. Without any evidence many family members of the deceased are pointing a finger at JW.

The article below shows how LE goes forward investigating illegal drug overdoses illustrating it is a long game where the street level provider is just the first step in an investigation up the chain. It is critical that family members provide insights into the deceased person's behaviors prior to death. LE isn't trying to besmirch the memory of deceased family members but need honest insights.

“By their very nature, these cases are difficult, because, sadly, the person who ingested the substance has died and we’re left to rely on the circumstantial evidence to figure out what happened. It’s difficult to obtain a conviction when the defense attorney can argue the victim could have picked up the lethal dose from anyone.”

https://www.dea.gov/stories/2023/2023-02/2023-02-08/overdose-death-investigations-challenge-dea-agents-bring-justice

My personal opinion in this sad case is that when LE said “This case is 100% NOT being investigated as a homicide,” Kansas City police Capt. Jake Becchina told Fox News Digital, is it's a true statement rather than a deflection of an investigation into JW.

I had completely forgotten about this case until it came up up at the top of the page. Just reading your post and I'm glad to see it's not been deemed a homicide. Regardless of where the drugs came from, these were all adults and as long someone didn't slip them something in a drink, they made the choise to get high. They rolled the dice and lost. Three of many others who have met the same fate. I can't recall if I ever read it or not but was it fentanyl or something else tainted with fentanyl unbeknownst to the guys?

 

[Howl]

The three men ingested whatever via however, and died outside in very cold weather, so all forensic evidence outside was perfectly preserved by the freezing weather. The police certainly got a search warrant and turned JW's house upside down looking for any evidence of drugs, drug manufacture, drug use, whatever. They would have searched the car(s) the three came in, and whatever of their personal belongings were in the house or outside with them, like coats, jackets, pockets, backpacks, cell phones.

JW has not been arrested or named a POI, so I'm assuming (MOO) there was nothing that incriminated him, but there was evidence that one or some of the three brought the drugs to the house. Who knows, they could have even bought the stuff over the internet.

Has this been addressed already? I did a cursory search on "adverse reactions to alcohol + fentanyl".

If the friends had been drinking beer all afternoon and into the night...and then ingested/smoked fentanyl, here's the thing: alcohol and fentanyl are both potent depressants.

Health line.com, Sept. 23, 2023: Understanding the Risks of Mixing Fentanyl and Alcohol
"When you combine depressants like alcohol and fentanyl, the effects of each drug are amplified, which can significantly increase the risk of overdose and even death."

I know it's incredibly hard for the families to process this horror, And yes, recreational use of illicit substances would/could have been a closely guarded secret from the parents, and possibly even spouses. But I hope they can realize that (MOO) this tragedy was the outcome of decisions on the part of their loved ones who just wanted to have a good time.

 

[NCWatcher]

The three men ingested whatever via however, and died outside in very cold weather, so all forensic evidence outside was perfectly preserved by the freezing weather. The police certainly got a search warrant and turned JW's house upside down looking for any evidence of drugs, drug manufacture, drug use, whatever. They would have searched the car(s) the three came in, and whatever of their personal belongings were in the house or outside with them, like coats, jackets, pockets, backpacks, cell phones.

JW has not been arrested or named a POI, so I'm assuming (MOO) there was nothing that incriminated him, but there was evidence that one or some of the three brought the drugs to the house. Who knows, they could have even bought the stuff over the internet.

Has this been addressed already? I did a cursory search on "adverse reactions to alcohol + fentanyl".

If the friends had been drinking beer all afternoon and into the night...and then ingested/smoked fentanyl, here's the thing: alcohol and fentanyl are both potent depressants.

Health line.com, Sept. 23, 2023: Understanding the Risks of Mixing Fentanyl and Alcohol
"When you combine depressants like alcohol and fentanyl, the effects of each drug are amplified, which can significantly increase the risk of overdose and even death."

I know it's incredibly hard for the families to process this horror, And yes, recreational use of illicit substances would/could have been a closely guarded secret from the parents, and possibly even spouses. But I hope they can realize that (MOO) this tragedy was the outcome of decisions on the part of their loved ones who just wanted to have a good time.

I generally agree. But a few points:

It does sound like they had been drinking a lot & for a long period of time that day. I'm not sure if an interaction with alcohol caused the apparent ODs though. IF it's true that toxicology showed "three times the amount of fentanyl that is enough to kill" in all the men as reported by two family members (link below), then unless they all had super-gigantic tolerances to fentanyl, alcohol may have affected their judgment but likely didn't interact with the fentanyl to kill them. Well, it may have interacted but they'd have been dead anyway.
Kansas City Chiefs fans found dead had three times lethal amount of fentanyl plus cocaine, THC: reports

Other than JW supplying it (I definitely agree there's no evidence we know of that he did), it's possible one of the three men had the drug with him when the men arrived at JW's after the game. And it's possible the 5th man (AWL) who arrived later than the 3 men & left around midnight supplied it. And I suppose it's possible one or more of the 3 men left the house after JW passed out, scored, and then came back. I think at least some of the families probably knew about the recreational drug use. But that doesn't mean the men could go home to continue to party.

I keep wondering why the drugs were apparently used so late at night unless the 5th man and JW are in cahoots about when the men died which I very much doubt. Reports from both men-- assuming press reports are accurate-- say the 3 men who died were alive after midnight. That suggests they hadn't been doing drugs laced with a lot of fentanyl early on. If the dead men were regular users, I can't imagine letting the stuff they had stay in a pocket all night. People I knew long ago who were users (and not especially heavy users) wouldn't have done that. Some posts here have suggested coke is often used as a "pick me up" before driving home after drinking. I guess that could be the case but it still seems odd to me. I guess it's possible there was more than one supplier. One batch was highly cut/contaminated with fentanyl and one wasn't. And it was just chance the bad batch was done late at night while the clean batch (or cleaner batch) was done earlier.
MOO

 

[grannygates]

I subscribe to the idea that everyone was drinking/doing coke all night and the 3 men bought another bag at 2am, when the 5th friend and JA went to bed. Likely their normal guy was unavailable so they had to call someone else, who perhaps sold them a bag strongly laced with fentanyl or maybe the wrong bag entirely. There are many drug users who seek straight fentanyl so maybe this dealer mixed it up?

I have great sympathy for their families but everyone knows that fentanyl is very common and very deadly. It is a huge risk to do any sort of drugs these days. Even casual users. I’m sure half the lower level dealers don’t even know the actual contents or how strongly their drugs are laced prior to them even receiving them. It’s likely been through a half dozen (or more) people before getting to the user.

I agree with everyone who has spoken about the test strips and keeping narcan just in case. You can’t trust anyone to know the true contents of the drugs.

 

[john's mom]

Just chiming in here to say that I have a relative who is a firefighter/EMT. They see so many OD’s that they get a call, administer Narcan, a few hours later they get another call, same person OD’s, administer Narcan. It’s just another day on the job. I know it’s someone’s loved one, but to the first responders, it’s just another day.
About 15 years ago, a family member died from a heroin overdose. His mother was a mess, and I called the detective on the case to get some information for her. He wasn’t in so I left my name and number. I called several times and he never returned my call. I finally got a hold of his supervisor and was told that the detective didn’t recognize my name or number so he didn’t call me back. I was livid and let them know, but the truth is, they all have a big workload and after years of the same thing over and over, how much do they really care?
IMO, Unless they have an investigation into a big dealer, they probably aren’t even trying to find the source of the drugs that killed these guys.

 

[Artis]

I generally agree. But a few points:

It does sound like they had been drinking a lot & for a long period of time that day. I'm not sure if an interaction with alcohol caused the apparent ODs though. IF it's true that toxicology showed "three times the amount of fentanyl that is enough to kill" in all the men as reported by two family members (link below), then unless they all had super-gigantic tolerances to fentanyl, alcohol may have affected their judgment but likely didn't interact with the fentanyl to kill them. Well, it may have interacted but they'd have been dead anyway.
Kansas City Chiefs fans found dead had three times lethal amount of fentanyl plus cocaine, THC: reports

Other than JW supplying it (I definitely agree there's no evidence we know of that he did), it's possible one of the three men had the drug with him when the men arrived at JW's after the game. And it's possible the 5th man (AWL) who arrived later than the 3 men & left around midnight supplied it. And I suppose it's possible one or more of the 3 men left the house after JW passed out, scored, and then came back. I think at least some of the families probably knew about the recreational drug use. But that doesn't mean the men could go home to continue to party.

I keep wondering why the drugs were apparently used so late at night unless the 5th man and JW are in cahoots about when the men died which I very much doubt. Reports from both men-- assuming press reports are accurate-- say the 3 men who died were alive after midnight. That suggests they hadn't been doing drugs laced with a lot of fentanyl early on. If the dead men were regular users, I can't imagine letting the stuff they had stay in a pocket all night. People I knew long ago who were users (and not especially heavy users) wouldn't have done that. Some posts here have suggested coke is often used as a "pick me up" before driving home after drinking. I guess that could be the case but it still seems odd to me. I guess it's possible there was more than one supplier. One batch was highly cut/contaminated with fentanyl and one wasn't. And it was just chance the bad batch was done late at night while the clean batch (or cleaner batch) was done earlier.
MOO

Because I hadn't followed the developments, I din't know about the toxicology and the cocaine. There's a thing where heroin and cocaine are mixed and it's called a speedball so it's probably done with fentanyl and coke, as well. I don't know if they buy that combo pre-mixed or mix their own but it sure sounds like any cocaine may have been heavily cut with fentanyl (because it's cheap). They were probably hit so hard when they did that that they went out in the cold to try to shake it and wake up.

 

[iusedtofloat]

I subscribe to the idea that everyone was drinking/doing coke all night and the 3 men bought another bag at 2am, when the 5th friend and JA went to bed. Likely their normal guy was unavailable so they had to call someone else, who perhaps sold them a bag strongly laced with fentanyl or maybe the wrong bag entirely. There are many drug users who seek straight fentanyl so maybe this dealer mixed it up?

I have great sympathy for their families but everyone knows that fentanyl is very common and very deadly. It is a huge risk to do any sort of drugs these days. Even casual users. I’m sure half the lower level dealers don’t even know the actual contents or how strongly their drugs are laced prior to them even receiving them. It’s likely been through a half dozen (or more) people before getting to the user.

I agree with everyone who has spoken about the test strips and keeping narcan just in case. You can’t trust anyone to know the true contents of the drugs.

Once you're already under the influence OR if you have an addiction OR give into peer pressure easily, it's a lot easier to not care if fent is involved or not. sad but true.

i think every single person in america should have narcan in their house and one in their car.

 

[Kudzuu]

I have a dumb question.

What drug or drugs are laced with fentanyl? And why exactly are they laced with such a potent substance?