Identified! MO - McDonald Co., 'Grace Doe' Fem Skeletal 784UFMO, 21-31, Dec'90 - Shawna Beth Garber

[webrocket]

Wondering if this could be missing Cynthia L. Day who went missing August 10th 1990 from East St. Louis, IL. www.findcynthia.com

can't be Cynthia Day if I am reading the dentals correctly. as per your link, she was missing her left eye tooth, which if I'm not mistaken would be tooth #11.

the UID had tooth #11.

 

[Claudette]

I have a general question - when cases state a person might be say Caucasian and Native American, is that only apparent when the person's parents are of those races? I ask out of curiosity, but also because I am white but my great-great grandmother or so was Cherokee and I wonder if I would be classified as Caucasian with "possibly" Native American as we sometimes see. Or would it all depend on how strongly the genetics passed down to me? I know skeletal builds are different between different races, but how can they tell if they are mixed races or possibly mixed?

 

[webrocket]

I have a general question - when cases state a person might be say Caucasian and Native American, is that only apparent when the person's parents are of those races? I ask out of curiosity, but also because I am white but my great-great grandmother or so was Cherokee and I wonder if I would be classified as Caucasian with "possibly" Native American as we sometimes see. Or would it all depend on how strongly the genetics passed down to me? I know skeletal builds are different between different races, but how can they tell if they are mixed races or possibly mixed?

I'm not an expert on genetics. I suspect they are not talking true genetics, i.e. DNA has specific tribal connection. in my opinion, they are talking about black hair, such that you would expect to find with Hispanics, Native Americans and Asians for that matter.

there could be other factors such as skin tone, body shape, etc.

in any event, I seriously doubt they are talking fractional lineage, unless it is showing up in appearance.

 

[Kathee]

I have a general question - when cases state a person might be say Caucasian and Native American, is that only apparent when the person's parents are of those races? I ask out of curiosity, but also because I am white but my great-great grandmother or so was Cherokee and I wonder if I would be classified as Caucasian with "possibly" Native American as we sometimes see. Or would it all depend on how strongly the genetics passed down to me? I know skeletal builds are different between different races, but how can they tell if they are mixed races or possibly mixed?

They made the determination from a hair sample Detective Howard had tested. The lab determined that her cross hair strands were flat, as opposed to oval, according to Howard.

 

[carbuff]

If the facial reconstruction is at all accurate, I'd say that Elizabeth Bain's chin is too small.

I came up with Bain also. Something about the overall features grabbed me.

Her chin looks larger in some of the other photos. The photo of the jaw from the article (http://www.neoshodailynews.com/features/x713424775/Cold-case-update-bones-found) looks smaller than the one in the reconstruction, though with camera angles it's really hard to tell.

It's 18-19 hours driving time from Scarborough Ontario to that part of Missouri. That's enough time between when she disappeared and when her car was found (would mean she'd been there since June, however). She could also have been kidnapped in the murderer's vehicle and still alive in October.

Bain is mixed Asian/white/Hispanic.

My biggest reservation is that Bain does not look like the type to wear a jean jacket...

 

[rcoope23]

Hi there, I've been having a brief look. I think she resembles Rhonda Baucum who went missing in 1987 from Carolina.

Rhonda Joy Baucom
Missing since May 18, 1987 from Charlotte, Mecklenburg County, North Carolina
Classification: Endangered Missing



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Vital Statistics
•Date Of Birth: March 12, 1958
•Age at Time of Disappearance: 29 years old
•Height and Weight at Time of Disappearance: 5' 4"; 120 lbs.
•Distinguishing Characteristics: White female. Brown hair; blue eyes.
•Dentals: Not available
•Fingerprints: Not available
•DNA: Available



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Circumstances of Disappearance
Baucom was last seen at her apartment complex, at 3100 Central Avenue in Charlotte, North Carolina on May 18, 1987. She was reported missing on May 26, 1987.

Family say she is a homebody and not to type to be gone from home. Ms. Baucom is believed to be missing under suspicious circumstances.



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Investigators
If you have any information concerning this case, please contact:

Charlotte-Mecklenburg Police Department
Detective Lee Tuttle
704-336-3949
--
CrimeStoppers
704-334-1600

Agency Case Number: 19870526165300

NCIC Number: M-249286575
Please refer to this number when contacting any agency with information regarding this case.

Source Information:
Charlotte-Mecklenburg Police Department
News14
Namus



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[rcoope23]

Side by side of victim 'Grace' and Rhonda Baucum

 

[rcoope23]

hmmmm just thinking on the personality of the perpertrator. He leaves a few clues like how he chose to hogtie the victim. This seems like the act of a highly dominant personality who gets off on complete control over the victim. Its not enough to hold her down and rape her, he has to make her completely submissive and yet leave her concious so she knows whats going on. Does anyone else have any thoughts on the killer?

 

[webrocket]

I see the resemblance with Rhonda Baucom but with the distance and gap in time between her disappearance and the estimated date of death of Grace Doe, I'd have to ask what a homebody, as Rhonda was described, would be doing for at least a full two years?

she could have been kept hostage, anything is possible especially with psychopathic killers.

 

[rcoope23]

Yes, that's a major roadblock but also people keep secrets from their family all the time. Perhaps she had a lover she ran away with? or was in money troubles? or like you said kidnapped. she's the only one I've found with the distinctive face shape of the victim.

 

[rcoope23]

Hi there, just letting you know I have submitted Rhonda Baucum to the Doe Network and it is going to the panel for review.

 

[Kathee]

I also submitted the Baucum information to Detective Howard. Here is her response:

Thank you for the info! I have some leads but few viable ones. I am checking them all.

I am waiting on DNA results from some, dentals for others and still looking for any and all help.

Peace,

Lorie

 

[chaddylex]

I made a call to Detective Howard this afternoon about submitting Cynthia Day as a possible match. (since both Cynthia's family submitted DNA and Grace has DNA in the system, she said it will only take a few days for a match/rule out... even though she doubts this is Cynthia, she said it's worth a shot) She wanted me to let everyone know that she reads this thread is up for any ideas that any of the members here have. She was one of the nicest people that I have ever spoken to when relating to possible matches.

I wish some of detectives that are in charge of other unidentifed remains were so determined to give them their name back and their families closure.

Grace Doe has a family, and she has a name. Hopefully the persistance of Detective Howard solving this mystery will pay off soon!!!

 

[Kathee]

Hi all,

I got an update from Detective Howard and she wanted to make sure you all were included:

She also sent me this yesterday:

AMW Presents: Worst Case Scenario

http://bcove.me/gqbulpzf



Kathee,

Hi.

Just wanted to keep you up to speed on the results of the DNA profiles that have been compared to Grace.

Rhonda Baucom – excluded. DNA
Ashley Fuller Reed – excluded DNA
Krista De La Rosa – excluded DNA
Janet Dolgae – excluded DNA
Cheryl Ann Kenney – excluded DNA
Star Boomer – excluded - Time frame
Dancer from 4 Aces in Galena KS –excluded Time Frame
Jennifer Lynn Pandos – excluded Dentals
Meredith Medina – excluded Dentals


WORKING ON THE FOLLOWING:

Barbara Miller
Tammy Rothganger
Juliana Schubert
Elizabeth Bain
Nancy Brannon
Robin Abrams
Debbie Hall
Cynthia Day
Susan R. Carter
Jennifer Wictor

Please pass this along to websleuths.

They have been most helpful. I do pay attention.

Peace,

Lorie

 

[webrocket]

truly outstanding!

Hi all,

I got an update from Detective Howard and she wanted to make sure you all were included:

She also sent me this yesterday:

AMW Presents: Worst Case Scenario
http://bcove.me/gqbulpzf




Kathee,

Hi.

Just wanted to keep you up to speed on the results of the DNA profiles that have been compared to Grace.

Rhonda Baucom – excluded. DNA
Ashley Fuller Reed – excluded DNA
Krista De La Rosa – excluded DNA
Janet Dolgae – excluded DNA
Cheryl Ann Kenney – excluded DNA
Star Boomer – excluded - Time frame
Dancer from 4 Aces in Galena KS –excluded Time Frame
Jennifer Lynn Pandos – excluded Dentals
Meredith Medina – excluded Dentals


WORKING ON THE FOLLOWING:

Barbara Miller
Tammy Rothganger
Juliana Schubert
Elizabeth Bain
Nancy Brannon
Robin Abrams
Debbie Hall
Cynthia Day
Susan R. Carter
Jennifer Wictor

Please pass this along to websleuths.

They have been most helpful. I do pay attention.

Peace,

Lorie

 

[CarlK90245]

The dancer from Galena KS is probably Karol Marlene Sullens

http://www.charleyproject.org/cases/s/sullens_karol.html

... although the name of the nightclub is Valley of the Dolls, not 4 Aces.

 

[Snufamonbobball]

It's great to have rule outs and already submitted women to work with!

I don't see Barbara Lealyn Lenz on any lists. Other than her listed height, I think she matches up pretty well. :twocents:

http://www.charleyproject.org/cases/l/lenz_barbara.html

 

[chaddylex]

Bumping to see if Grace Doe has anymore ruleouts or if she has been identified?

 

[webrocket]

still only 4 rule-outs at Namus:

Hazel Klug 1962 Virginia
Patricia Schmidt 1964 Virginia
Tiffany Sessions 1968 Florida
Nadine Timm 1935 Illinois


this would be in addition to those mentioned by Kathee"

Rhonda Baucom – excluded. DNA
Ashley Fuller Reed – excluded DNA
Krista De La Rosa – excluded DNA
Janet Dolgae – excluded DNA
Cheryl Ann Kenney – excluded DNA
Star Boomer – excluded - Time frame
Dancer from 4 Aces in Galena KS –excluded Time Frame
Jennifer Lynn Pandos – excluded Dentals
Meredith Medina – excluded Dentals


any further word Kathee?

 

[dsntslp]

Any thoughts on whether Grace Doe might be Lisa Stasi?

I ran at search at NamUs and could not locate a page for Stasi, btw.

I think the reconstruction of Grace Doe and the images of Lisa Stasi resemble each other but I do concede that Grace Doe was found five years after Stasi went missing. I wonder if maybe she was kept alive for a few years and then killed. Long shot, I know, but please do compare the pics.

http://www.charleyproject.org/cases/s/stasi_lisa.html