Identified! MO - McDonald Co., 'Grace Doe' Fem Skeletal 784UFMO, 21-31, Dec'90 - Shawna Beth Garber
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dsntslp
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Mapquest link: http://mapq.st/kloJtr
Overland Park, KS (Lisa Stasi last known location)
Oscar Talley Road, Lanagan, MO (Grace Doe location)
Overland Park, KS (Lisa Stasi last known location)
Oscar Talley Road, Lanagan, MO (Grace Doe location)
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Lisa's murderer, John Robinson was in prison from '87 to '91 on various fraud and theft charges. So he would have been in prison in 1990, when this murder occurred.
I do see the resemblance though, and the geography and bondage circumstances are consistent with Robinson.
I suppose it's theoretically possible that he gave her to some other person who was also into bondage, and that person held her for five years before murdering her. Quite a long-shot though.
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Det. Howard is not averse to looking at longshots, so I went ahead and phoned this one in. I told her this was a long-shot since Robinson was in prison at the time of the murder, but that he was involved in a bondage underworld, and she might have been held by one of his associates.
I also mentioned that I overlaid a photo of her over the reconstruction, and the alignment of their facial structures was very strong. I also mentioned that the proximity of Overland Park KS to the crime scene was interesting as well.
She seemed very interested, and said that she would look into it.
I also mentioned that I overlaid a photo of her over the reconstruction, and the alignment of their facial structures was very strong. I also mentioned that the proximity of Overland Park KS to the crime scene was interesting as well.
She seemed very interested, and said that she would look into it.
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It's not that difficult if the faces are similarly oriented in both photos . You can just copy and paste the images onto a MS Excel spreadsheet. The images will have handles on the corners so that you can size them similarly, and then you can drag them over one another.
While the mouse button is clicked on the image and the image is being dragged, it becomes transparent, and you can see both images superimposed over each other.
dsntslp
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Lot's of info here...
http://www.trutv.com/library/crime/serial_killers/predators/john_robinson/index.html
A long read but well worth the time.
http://www.trutv.com/library/crime/serial_killers/predators/john_robinson/index.html
A long read but well worth the time.
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This is actually pretty plausible. Robinson took Lisa's baby away from her and gave the baby to his brother.
I can envision that he might have told her that she had to work as a prostitute in his B&D network, or she would never see her child again. It's plausible that she was held by someone within that network, and told that the child would be harmed if she tried to escape or refused to cooperate.
I can envision that he might have told her that she had to work as a prostitute in his B&D network, or she would never see her child again. It's plausible that she was held by someone within that network, and told that the child would be harmed if she tried to escape or refused to cooperate.
sarah52181
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Hello all,
I'm a frequent Websleuths reader but I rarely have anything to contribute. However, since I'm from Mac County and know the area where the body was found very well, I thought I'd chime in! (I can't believe I'd never heard of this story until now).
Anyway, I'd have to agree with the assessment that she was likely not from the area. We're a very tight-knit rural community and would DEFINITELY notice someone missing. I would also agree that the killer was likely from the area. Even the main road that Oscar Talley branches off of isn't all that well traveled - there are easier ways to get to Anderson (and even then, Anderson isn't much of a destination).
As for her being hogtied, I'm not all that surprised. There are a lot of farmers and rodeo types in the area - for a lot of men wanting to subdue someone/something, hog-tying would be almost instinctual. I'm not trying to slam the locals or insinuate that they're all a bunch of rednecks, but honestly most of us learned to hog tie even as little kids
I don't know if any of that was helpful, but that's all I have!
EDIT: Now that I think about it, this area is very near Ginger Blue. Today, Ginger Blue is literally just a wide spot in the road, but back in the 80s it was a really swanky resort (It's since been torn down). My grandmother used to make the drive down from Springfield (roughly 2 hours) just to have lunch there. It could be that the killer and/or the victim had been in the area visiting the resort. The resort would have been about 2.5 miles from where her body was found.
I'm a frequent Websleuths reader but I rarely have anything to contribute. However, since I'm from Mac County and know the area where the body was found very well, I thought I'd chime in! (I can't believe I'd never heard of this story until now).
Anyway, I'd have to agree with the assessment that she was likely not from the area. We're a very tight-knit rural community and would DEFINITELY notice someone missing. I would also agree that the killer was likely from the area. Even the main road that Oscar Talley branches off of isn't all that well traveled - there are easier ways to get to Anderson (and even then, Anderson isn't much of a destination).
As for her being hogtied, I'm not all that surprised. There are a lot of farmers and rodeo types in the area - for a lot of men wanting to subdue someone/something, hog-tying would be almost instinctual. I'm not trying to slam the locals or insinuate that they're all a bunch of rednecks, but honestly most of us learned to hog tie even as little kids
I don't know if any of that was helpful, but that's all I have!
EDIT: Now that I think about it, this area is very near Ginger Blue. Today, Ginger Blue is literally just a wide spot in the road, but back in the 80s it was a really swanky resort (It's since been torn down). My grandmother used to make the drive down from Springfield (roughly 2 hours) just to have lunch there. It could be that the killer and/or the victim had been in the area visiting the resort. The resort would have been about 2.5 miles from where her body was found.
Redwood146
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thats very interesting information.
sarah52181
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I continued to obsess over this last night, and I thought I'd share what else I was able to come up with.
My first thought was to track down the kid that found her. If he was 10 in 1990, he was likely in my class (the entire county goes to one school) and I was amazed I'd never heard the story from any of my classmates. Doing a little research, it looks like no one took down the name of the child or his parents, but they were believed to not be long-term residents. I think I read they they worked at one of the 2 huge chicken processing plants in the area, as a lot of people do.
There are a lot of immigrant workers at the plants, and they tend to come and go from the area quite frequently. This made me wonder if our girl was maybe one of them (in which case she might not be missed immediately). It does puzzle me that they list her as Native American as opposed to Hispanic when the bone structure usually very similar. But clearly they would be the experts and not me!
Anyway, from what I read she had a lot of expensive dental work (including past braces, which are usually purely cosmetic and quite pricey), which doesn't really fit with the "struggling immigrant" profile of a lot of he plant workers. I hope that mass generalization doesn't offend anyone... there are certainly exceptions.
Given the implied affluence, I'm still leaning towards "resort guest". I wish there was some way to look at the Ginger Blue records from back then, but it went downhill and changed hands multiple times. One of the chicken plants eventually purchased it to use as low income housing for it's immigrant workers, at which point it became a total slum due to overcrowding. Not long afterward, it burned down.
I talked to my sister who was a housekeeper there when she was in high school in '86 - she said the main resort was primarily open during the summer, but some aspects, especially the restaurant and maybe some of the guest cabins, were open year round.
My first thought was to track down the kid that found her. If he was 10 in 1990, he was likely in my class (the entire county goes to one school) and I was amazed I'd never heard the story from any of my classmates. Doing a little research, it looks like no one took down the name of the child or his parents, but they were believed to not be long-term residents. I think I read they they worked at one of the 2 huge chicken processing plants in the area, as a lot of people do.
There are a lot of immigrant workers at the plants, and they tend to come and go from the area quite frequently. This made me wonder if our girl was maybe one of them (in which case she might not be missed immediately). It does puzzle me that they list her as Native American as opposed to Hispanic when the bone structure usually very similar. But clearly they would be the experts and not me!
Anyway, from what I read she had a lot of expensive dental work (including past braces, which are usually purely cosmetic and quite pricey), which doesn't really fit with the "struggling immigrant" profile of a lot of he plant workers. I hope that mass generalization doesn't offend anyone... there are certainly exceptions.
Given the implied affluence, I'm still leaning towards "resort guest". I wish there was some way to look at the Ginger Blue records from back then, but it went downhill and changed hands multiple times. One of the chicken plants eventually purchased it to use as low income housing for it's immigrant workers, at which point it became a total slum due to overcrowding. Not long afterward, it burned down.
I talked to my sister who was a housekeeper there when she was in high school in '86 - she said the main resort was primarily open during the summer, but some aspects, especially the restaurant and maybe some of the guest cabins, were open year round.
Ms Suzanne
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Is this Jane Does mtDNA in CODIS?
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As of a few weeks ago, no.
I'm reposting the Namus link here at the end for easier access. nothing new though.
https://identifyus.org/cases/5321
https://identifyus.org/cases/5321
Hi all,
Here us an update from Detective Howard. A new reconstructionst, Joe Kenney, out of Austin is working on a updated image of Grace using different software. She is wanting another reconstruction to compare with the other, "To make sure I'm on the right track."
Howard has sent one of Grace's femurs and two teeth to UNT to hopefully extract nuclear DNA, which can be uploaded into CODIS for montly comparisions to all missing persons in the CODIS database.
Howard said to tell you all, "Websleuther's really do their research and I appreciate them so very much. Every lead they have sent to me I have eliminated and am hopeful that they may be able to help me find out who Grace is."
Howard is going to send me an updated list of who has been eliminated in the next few days and I will post them here so we can update the list.
In an unrelated case, would any of you be interested in helping the adminstrator of the following page to help her? Her Jane Doe doesn't have a WS page and I told her what great detectives you guys are.
k
http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100002278889179#!/profile.php?id=100002380913079
http://www.txdps.state.tx.us/mpch/UnidentifieddetailsPrint.asp?id=U9010001&Person=Unidentified
Here us an update from Detective Howard. A new reconstructionst, Joe Kenney, out of Austin is working on a updated image of Grace using different software. She is wanting another reconstruction to compare with the other, "To make sure I'm on the right track."
Howard has sent one of Grace's femurs and two teeth to UNT to hopefully extract nuclear DNA, which can be uploaded into CODIS for montly comparisions to all missing persons in the CODIS database.
Howard said to tell you all, "Websleuther's really do their research and I appreciate them so very much. Every lead they have sent to me I have eliminated and am hopeful that they may be able to help me find out who Grace is."
Howard is going to send me an updated list of who has been eliminated in the next few days and I will post them here so we can update the list.
In an unrelated case, would any of you be interested in helping the adminstrator of the following page to help her? Her Jane Doe doesn't have a WS page and I told her what great detectives you guys are.
k
http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100002278889179#!/profile.php?id=100002380913079
http://www.txdps.state.tx.us/mpch/UnidentifieddetailsPrint.asp?id=U9010001&Person=Unidentified
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fftopic:Here's the new thread for the above mentioned Jane Doe:
TX TX - Smith County - WhtFem (77UFTX) 20-25 - Top Rail Country Music Shirt - Oct'85
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Nobody has mentioned Marie Musial yet.
http://www.charleyproject.org/cases/m/musial_marie.html
Of course, NYC is far away from McDonald County MO, but everything else is pretty close.
The date she was last seen in NYC (23-Oct-1990) is about a week before Grace Doe's estimated date of death (31-Oct-1990)
Furthermore, her age (31) is at the upper end of the range, and her height (5'4") is within an inch of the 5'3" estimate. Her facial shape is similar.
And there is nothing in the circumstances to suggest that she died in the vicinity of where she was last seen.
http://www.charleyproject.org/cases/m/musial_marie.html
Of course, NYC is far away from McDonald County MO, but everything else is pretty close.
The date she was last seen in NYC (23-Oct-1990) is about a week before Grace Doe's estimated date of death (31-Oct-1990)
Furthermore, her age (31) is at the upper end of the range, and her height (5'4") is within an inch of the 5'3" estimate. Her facial shape is similar.
And there is nothing in the circumstances to suggest that she died in the vicinity of where she was last seen.