NC - Zahra Clare Baker, 10, Hickory, 9 Oct. 2010 #34

[writer7]

Well throw this into the mix about leg location, lol.

Meanwhile, the search for clues continued Friday at the Baker family home in Hickory and at the home off of Christie Road in Caldwell County, where investigators discovered what they believe is Zahra's prosthetic league.


http://hickory.wbtv.com/content/new-clues-energize-search-zahra-baker

The phrase "the Baker family home" made me think: what if the house off of Christie Road is a house she lived in growing up?

Does somebody have a very nearby street address to that Christie Rd area? I'd like to check the land ownership plots around there, but I need a pretty full address right in the viciinity.

 

[BritsKate]

^ exactly......EB = Hysterectomy, ZB was too young. The only reason there would have been anything in the bin for AB to see would be if EB was faking menstruation BEFORE the fake pregnancy in order to trick AB into thinking she was still fertile. When she knew she was not.

I was just reading through last night's postings on this...is it possible she felt she was losing control of AB and sought to 'secure' the relationship?

In my experience when someone afflicted with PD feels they're losing control emotional blackmail pretty much tops the list to reassert that control.

Just a thought.

 

[peg4x4]

So much does not make sense - no money=2cars,welfed dogs,money to get elective surgery done on the dog(ear crop),hair dye,'puter service..
Moving every few months in a smallish town.. Wouldn't word get around that they/she was a deadbeat?
Hot checks -- again,a small town,word would get around...where were they buying food,such..cause we've got "bad check lists"around here..

 

[Mrs G Norris]

I was just reading through last night's postings on this...is it possible she felt she was losing control of AB and sought to 'secure' the relationship?

In my experience when someone afflicted with PD feels they're losing control emotional blackmail pretty much tops the list to reassert that control.

Just a thought.

Yes, and I'm wondering how much Zahra had wanted to go home, was she asking AB to take her back here, were there immigration pressures, would the non-existent twins keep AB in the US, at least for now. They were fighting, perhaps he had wanted to leave, AY had moved on, etc...interesting.

 

[Patty G]

It's pretty sad that the reporter is writing about Elisa based on what Elisa wrote on her MySpace page.

"When she asked for a bicycle, her new stepmother exacted a heavy price."
http://www2.journalnow.com/news/2010/oct/31/missing-girl-did-not-want-to-leave-australia-ar-498291/

Does anyone recall IF Elisa wrote about a bicycle on her MySpace page?

 

[rbrnmw2]

Yes, and I'm wondering how much Zahra had wanted to go home, was she asking AB to take her back here, were there immigration pressures, would the non-existent twins keep AB in the US, at least for now. They were fighting, perhaps he had wanted to leave, AY had moved on, etc...interesting.

http://www.independent.co.ug/index....riage-or-fake-up-a-pregnancy-a-womans-dilemma
very good article discussing this subject

 

[NancyA]

No, he would have to be retarded. Seriously, only a complete moron would not see the abuse that was going on, both emotional and physical.

Totally agree. I firmly believe he knew, I keep going back to the fact that the school reported their concerns to social services, I can't find the link now (if someone has it I'd be really grateful) but I recall there was a big 'we're not allowed to comment on a particular case' or words to that effect. Fact is if they DID investigate then even if AB didn't know about potential abuse before then he would have been alerted to it at that point and just didn't care enough about anyone but himself to stop it. MOO.

Of course it's JMO but apart from all the other signs that this man is totally self-absorbed, he has been cossetted, coddled and at the same time 'ruled' by a mother figure his whole life. I agree that he probably was - um how to put it delicately without getting a TO - 'kitty-whipped' by EB, but I also think there's a lot to the early speculation about Doms and Subs and he was a Sub to EB because that's the way he liked it. He wasn't so much a victim but a willing victim.

As for being unaware of everything EB was doing, I have said before I don't buy at all that she was killing Zahra, disposing of her body, the mattress, possibly repainting her room, setting fires and writing ransom notes and he slept or worked through the whole thing - he'd have to be in a coma to be that oblivious.

 

[summer_breeze]

http://www2.journalnow.com/news/2010/oct/31/missing-girl-did-not-want-to-leave-australia-ar-498291/

By Monte Mitchell | JOURNAL REPORTER
Published: October 31, 2010

This is the first of a two-part series examining the life of Zahra Baker, the Hickory girl who was first reported missing on Oct. 9 and who authorities believe is dead.

 

[Melanie]

So much does not make sense - no money=2cars,welfed dogs,money to get elective surgery done on the dog(ear crop),hair dye,'puter service..
Moving every few months in a smallish town.. Wouldn't word get around that they/she was a deadbeat?
Hot checks -- again,a small town,word would get around...where were they buying food,such..cause we've got "bad check lists"around here..

OMGosh - you are so right. We moved twice in the last 9 months and let me tell ya, it drained all our savings. First/last/cat deposit. Not to mention moving vans, changing utilities, gas for the cars. I told hubby that I'm not moving ever again! How the Bakers did it is beyond me.

Forget Christmas - I have to load up our savings account again!

MOO

Mel

 

[diphi]

http://www.independent.co.ug/index....riage-or-fake-up-a-pregnancy-a-womans-dilemma
very good article discussing this subject

Very interesting - thanks.

 

[BritsKate]

Not saying this is the case but it does make for interesting reading, considering:
http://www.webmd.com/mental-health/factitious-disorders

Patty:
I read EB's myspace before it was pulled - I remember little mention of Zahra altogether and no mention of a bicycle. She did have it stated she was a proud parent and somewhere mentioned she had 4 children but I honestly cannot recall her even referencing Zahra by name...simply the 'dark child'. This is just from memory - so take it FWIW.

ETA: About that dark child comment as well. Admittedly my eyebrows raised when I read that but in that pic Zahra was also wearing all black. I have wondered if that was what EB was referencing in that comment. Maybe I'm not as convinced since black is also a favourite colour of my 10 y/o daughters? (She's in that scary pre-teen stage where she says wants to be goth...I want her to be 3 again. Sigh.) That said never for even a nanosecond have I thought EB not to be guilty as sin either - just not certain her dark child comment was necessarily sinister when it was made.

 

[peg4x4]

how would they pay the utility deposits alone,much less --well,anything else!? First and last months rent!? Moving..well,if someone in the family had a pickup truck that's not so much of a much...
How much is a dog ear cropping anyhow? Lots of Vets won't do them,as they are considred cosmetic..

 

[Fyrecat]

I very respectfully don't agree on this.
I work with parents with children in Foster Care. Sometimes it's because of the abuse of one parent and not the other. Sometimes its because one parent has also abused the other. I had a case where the woman reminded me alot of SM. Her husband was a big fellow, much larger than her. Yet you could see she wore the pants. There were past allegations of abuse. I believe from reading what I did that she had at one point almost critically injured him.
Yet, he stayed with her, and they fought to get their children back. And they did. Why you might ask? Because when a parent completes their services, including counseling, anger management, substance abuse counseling, yada, yada, yada, there is often a decision that the parents have done what they needed....
I don't have a counselors perspective on this case. I disliked the woman. She gave me the creeps. Yet, her children loved her. They cried when they had to leave visits. They clung to her.
I don't understand it, except as my Supervisor said 'there are sides to people, and her good side is what they missed and remembered'.
But I wanted to say, that yes, I have seen one parent who is either a victim of the abuse themselves, or just puts on blinders and can't see it.

JMO

Totally agree. I firmly believe he knew, I keep going back to the fact that the school reported their concerns to social services, I can't find the link now (if someone has it I'd be really grateful) but I recall there was a big 'we're not allowed to comment on a particular case' or words to that effect. Fact is if they DID investigate then even if AB didn't know about potential abuse before then he would have been alerted to it at that point and just didn't care enough about anyone but himself to stop it. MOO.

Of course it's JMO but apart from all the other signs that this man is totally self-absorbed, he has been cossetted, coddled and at the same time 'ruled' by a mother figure his whole life. I agree that he probably was - um how to put it delicately without getting a TO - 'kitty-whipped' by EB, but I also think there's a lot to the early speculation about Doms and Subs and he was a Sub to EB because that's the way he liked it. He wasn't so much a victim but a willing victim.

As for being unaware of everything EB was doing, I have said before I don't buy at all that she was killing Zahra, disposing of her body, the mattress, possibly repainting her room, setting fires and writing ransom notes and he slept or worked through the whole thing - he'd have to be in a coma to be that oblivious.

 

[peg4x4]

Ok~ Poked about on the net,and ear cropping cost about 350$,more or less..
So where did that money for a compleatly optional operation come from,when they couldn't take a child to the Dr?!!? AARG!!!!!!!!

 

[Fyrecat]

If one has had a hysterectomy one does not have periods. So if EB was faking a pregnancy,there would have been no need to use Zahara s supposed puberty as a cover.
Just when I think this can't get any stupider,it does! I'd sure like to know where EB was going to get twin babies,or even one...

She said she was pregnant with twins?

hard to believe that.

 

[BritsKate]

how would they pay the utility deposits alone,much less --well,anything else!? First and last months rent!? Moving..well,if someone in the family had a pickup truck that's not so much of a much...
How much is a dog ear cropping anyhow? Lots of Vets won't do them,as they are considred cosmetic..

Some of this has been volleyed around a lot. It's been theorised that the house in Hickory may have been part of AB's pay considering EB claimed a ridiculously low income on her affidavit for indigence - maybe no security was required? When I was living in the States I never had to pay a deposit for utilities so maybe that's different depending on the state but EB also had a host of aliases and at one point resorted to using her daughter's name, IIRC, as far as getting utilities.

I read $200-250 for ear cropping on an APBT forum but I have no personal experience with cropping or docking...it's also illegal in the UK.

 

[Beagle]

Help I am going NUTS ....... have been away for a bit and come back heaps going on with nothing making sense.


Could someone please give me an update as I have been trying to read some of the posts and am now totally lost. lol

I think it is called a senior moment

 

[NancyA]

I very respectfully don't agree on this.
I work with parents with children in Foster Care. Sometimes it's because of the abuse of one parent and not the other. Sometimes its because one parent has also abused the other. I had a case where the woman reminded me alot of SM. Her husband was a big fellow, much larger than her. Yet you could see she wore the pants. There were past allegations of abuse. I believe from reading what I did that she had at one point almost critically injured him.
Yet, he stayed with her, and they fought to get their children back. And they did. Why you might ask? Because when a parent completes their services, including counseling, anger management, substance abuse counseling, yada, yada, yada, there is often a decision that the parents have done what they needed....
I don't have a counselors perspective on this case. I disliked the woman. She gave me the creeps. Yet, her children loved her. They cried when they had to leave visits. They clung to her.
I don't understand it, except as my Supervisor said 'there are sides to people, and her good side is what they missed and remembered'.
But I wanted to say, that yes, I have seen one parent who is either a victim of the abuse themselves, or just puts on blinders and can't see it.

JMO

First, let me say you and anyone else who works in those areas has my utmost respect and admiration. I am aware that many spouses are also abused by those abusing their children (known a few and been badly burned trying to help) to the point they can't help themselves or their children. Just to clarify my thoughts in this case, I don't think AB was one of them. I honestly don't think he's as meek and mild as all that. I also don't think he actively abused Zahra himself and he may have been unaware that EB was abusing her but I think it was a 'conscious' unawareness, if you know what I mean, ie he didn't want to know. My point was that IF he was unaware before social services were alerted by the school, the fact that SS was involved must have told him something was going on, so he can't claim he was unaware after that point.

 

[BritsKate]

Help I am going NUTS ....... have been away for a bit and come back heaps going on with nothing making sense.


Could someone please give me an update as I have been trying to read some of the posts and am now totally lost. lol

I think it is called a senior moment

The first comment I read after a day away was about EB's 'double bundle of joy' - suprised I didn't wake someone on another continent up with my screaming thinking EB really was pregnant!

Long story short, Beagle, everyone's been discussing the following:

- How did EB and AB pay for everything, including moves, tattoos, vet bills and the like?

- Was AB aware Zahra was being abused? Was he abused himself?

- What psych disorders could EB be afflicted with?

- And the latest tidbit from NCMOM is that EB told AB she was pregnant with twins at approximately the same time frame as when Zahra went missing. To phrase this better: he believed her to be pregnant at the time of her arrest. However, according to BS (also from our beloved NCMOM) EB had a hysterectomy.

 

[NancyA]

I read $200-250 for ear cropping on an APBT forum but I have no personal experience with cropping or docking...it's also illegal in the UK.

O/T. Respectfully snipped. One of my major 'culture shock' moments not long after moving here was to find it wasn't illegal here too...and we won't go into the whole 'declawing' of cats...have had to bite my tongue so hard on occasion I've got scar tissue!

Back on topic, all of this spending of available monies on frivolities and self-indulgences while the basic essentials were left pretty much unattended to, goes IMO to the complete lack of anything resembling concern from EITHER of them for a child's needs.