Netherlands Netherlands, Amsterdam center, whtmale, possible 20-30, doorway Nieuwezijds Voorburgwal, Sept.1986

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otto said:
He's probably not Dutch since he has not been identified. He appears to be medium height 5'8" - 5'10", although that may be a stereotype that I associate with red hair and a wide jaw bone.

There's no stated cause of death from knife or gun, so it's more likely that he simply overdosed while lost in Amsterdam. It wouldn't be the first time that happened, regardless of whether drugs are legal. Illegal drugs didn't disappear when hashish and marijuana were sold in cafe bars. I was in Amsterdam in 1987 and 2-3 ambulances came out of the red light area every hour throughout the night between 3PM, when roaming happy hour started, to drugs and 3AM overdoses. Sugar cubes and tea were offered to help bring people down.

Dutch authorities should obtain his DNA to identify his eye colour and review his history in genealogical DNA.
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No, I don't think he was Dutch either. OD'd, yes, totally possible. If I'm correct there is a law since 2010 that LE takes DNA of every unidentified persons or remains found, before burying them and put it in a specific database for matching purposes only. Already buried N.N. persons were exhumed in recent years to get a DNA sample. Of course there must be DNA of a family member to compare it with. If his family never filed a missing person report or has no idea he ended up in Amsterdam and didn't know were to file it or gave their DNA to the Dutch police, no match can turn up.

About the DNA database for Missing Persons (DVP)

The following types of DNA profiles are stored in the DVP:
  1. DNA profiles of (mortal remains of) unidentified persons;
  2. DNA profiles of (utensils of) missing persons;
  3. DNA profiles of family members of missing persons;
DNA profiles of unidentified individuals are compared with:
  • The DNA profiles of other unidentified persons (to connect parts of the body found separately)
  • The DNA profiles of missing persons and / or their family members and the DNA profiles of known persons that are stored in the Dutch DNA database for criminal cases (to see whether this may lead to an identification).
In the Netherlands the government is still debating over the widespread use of genealogical DNA analyses, like the DNA doe Project and Othram use to identify persons. We will see what the future brings.

In this particular case I somehow doubt they were able to get DNA or maybe even the body was misplaced and they couldn't find it or the grave was already cleared in 2011, when they started the project 'DNA data bank' to obtain DNA from N.N's. I don't want to believe that, but things like that happen.

DNA profiles of missing persons and unidentified remains from the Netherlands are also included in Interpol 's DNA database in Lyon. Interpol has 194 member countries so there must be something off in this case, why they weren't able to make a match. No DNA/no missing persons report.

As for today no member of Interpol are: Taiwan, North-Korea and Tuvalu.
 
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Bit of hope said:
Nice to read about my dear city Amsterdam (I call it the little big city) like this. I have lived in the Jordaan for 15 years and my son is born there. Good point about the oil rig. Also Amsterdam is a port so maybe he was on a vessel and went out in the city center to have some fun.

Kind of OT About cannabis....our laws on that are complicated and weird, tolerated, but not legal, never was.
All drug laws are based on the 1928 Opium Act, which states that possession of any kind of drugs (list 1 (hard drugs) or 2 (soft drugs) is prohibited. However, the Opium Act also states that certain shops where cannabis use takes place (coffee shops) are tolerated by the local authorities. This is called the "tolerance policy". Contrary to popular belief, recreational cannabis is decriminalized and not legalized. The coffee shops have to buy it illegally, (professional growing is strictly prohibited, having more then 5 plants is considered professional) so from "criminals" (except for medical cannabis)....Sometimes the law is enforced for cannabis use. For example, if it is considered a threat to the health of young people, you could be prosecuted (for example for smoking cannabis near a school or on public transport). Whether or not you will be prosecuted is decided by the local authorities, not the government.
Technically, you can even face a prison sentence for possession of a small amount. The limit for a "small amount" is five grams. If you have more than five grams, you can be fined for a first offense, or a prison sentence if you are caught with a larger amount. If you are caught with less than five grams of cannabis, it will likely be confiscated, but you will not be prosecuted and you will not be fined. Cannabis in Nederland: wetgeving, coffeeshops en meer
Maybe all this madness will be over soon The government researches legalization of the growing of weed.

I'm still not sure if this was a murder/homicide. I have never seen it mentioned like that. He was also never on the Dutch cold case calendar, which is issued since 2017. On there are also cases of unidentified persons, at least one who died of natural courses. I don't understand why they never asked some attention for him in all this years, even if it was natural or an OD. If it was a robbery resulting in death this would be considered a murder I think and so it would have been mentioned I guess. Confusing, because this case is on the murder-list though. Also there no additional info...The fact that there is so little info on him and the circumstances surrounding his death could mean there was probably another course of death with no harm brought upon him by another person. I wish we knew for sure.

Coldcasekalender, alle cold case zaken uit de coldcasekalenders
https://www.misdaadjournalist.nl/wp-content/uploads/2006/12/Moordlijst2014-dec.pdf

Maybe the police is too embarrassed about the lack of info and that's the reason they don't go public with it that much?
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Thank you for clarifying the issue of cannabis. Yes, Amsterdam is a gorgeous city. I didn't want to leave! So picturesque with cobbled streets and colourful houses scrunched up together. I especially loved all the houseboats painted bright colours with hundreds of plant pots with tulips and geraniums, etc. The hotel we stayed in was owned by a friend of mine. It was nearly 400 years old. That's where I found out what all those huge metal hooks were used for that are placed between the eaves: to pull furniture up since the stairs were too steep and winding.

It does seem odd that the cause of death is not mentioned. He does have abrasions and cuts on his face but they don't necessarily mean he was in an altercation that caused his death. He could have fallen down stairs, banged into a lightpost (guilty!) or been in a minor car accident.

Do you still live in Amsterdam? If you do, would it be possible to contact LE to see if there is more info? Thanks.
 
branmuffin said:
Thank you for clarifying the issue of cannabis. Yes, Amsterdam is a gorgeous city. I didn't want to leave! So picturesque with cobbled streets and colourful houses scrunched up together. I especially loved all the houseboats painted bright colours with hundreds of plant pots with tulips and geraniums, etc. The hotel we stayed in was owned by a friend of mine. It was nearly 400 years old. That's where I found out what all those huge metal hooks were used for that are placed between the eaves: to pull furniture up since the stairs were too steep and winding.

It does seem odd that the cause of death is not mentioned. He does have abrasions and cuts on his face but they don't necessarily mean he was in an altercation that caused his death. He could have fallen down stairs, banged into a lightpost (guilty!) or been in a minor car accident.

Do you still live in Amsterdam? If you do, would it be possible to contact LE to see if there is more info? Thanks.
Click to expand...

No, I left ages ago. In the file they say so explicit that no other information is known, knowing a bit how the Dutch police is presenting their cases and mostly give a lot of information, I really doubt there is more information.

BTW taking another good look at the original PM picture it looks like they blurred parts around the eyes. Maybe his eyes were open when they found him or he had a black eye?
 
Bit of hope said:
@otto just out of curiosity. Would you be willing to share with us what expertise you have, being a verified expert?
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Good question, always challenging to answer. I have some close association with crown prosecutors in a major Canadian city, so I have insight into criminal prosecution etc. in Canada - no expert, but access. I have degrees in science, environmental design, education and currently doing a phd in wearable tech for a vulnerable population. I've taught post-secondary architecture and engineering classes, and worked as a tech specialist in a major university. I offer my 2 cents where I can, but generally speaking I'm fascinated with figuring out what happened to people who are missing based on limited information. It seems like once we understand the bare facts, it's almost a straight line between who did it and what happened.
 
otto said:
Good question, always challenging to answer. I have some close association with crown prosecutors in a major Canadian city, so I have insight into criminal prosecution etc. in Canada - no expert, but access. I have degrees in science, environmental design, education and currently doing a phd in wearable tech for a vulnerable population. I've taught post-secondary architecture and engineering classes, and worked as a tech specialist in a major university. I offer my 2 cents where I can, but generally speaking I'm fascinated with figuring out what happened to people who are missing based on limited information. It seems like once we understand the bare facts, it's almost a straight line between who did it and what happened.
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That's quite a list. Thank you for sharing.
 
Somewhat disappointing, but expected, is this info about the Interpol DNA data base

Created in 2002, INTERPOL’s DNA database currently contains more than 242,000 profiles contributed by 85 member countries. There are 194 member countries now, so there is still a lot of work to do. Actually, I'm afraid this will not be accomplished in the next decades either.

DNA
 
Luckyzmom said:
Nice job ! Post with a warning, I would ask a mod before you post it just to make sure. PM photos are kinda difficult to decide about. But sometimes that's all.there is ....MOO
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Agreed. This photo should have a warning! I appreciated an earlier post where it was warned about and now have seen it further long.
 
Few months ago, I have searched for hours many archives and old dutch newspapers trying to find any mention of this case anywhere. Strangely, I have found nothing. Not even one line.

While many people abroad stereotype Amsterdam/Holland with drugs and prostitution and many tourist do come for that, there is so much more to the city than that and those who live there do enjoy the special atmosphere and life of little big "village" city, how I fondly call it, as I always bumped into numerous people I knew whereever I went. Also to remember, Amsterdam is very multicultural city also with many foreigners who live there, not just tourists, so yes, he could be from anywhere.

With regards to cause of death - Nieuwezijds Voorburgwal is very long and busy street right in the centre of Amsterdam. And while there are many accidents of cars and people falling into canals, another often occurence is people being hit and killed by trams. I do not know how that street looked like in 80s but in 90s cars were running in both directions on that street including busy tramway tracks and add to that also buses both ways. Ohh, and don't forget many bicycles :) Just one stop from Centraal Station this street was very busy hub.

He could have been hit by any of those or even fallen into empty tramway tracks with bike and falling over causing serious injuries. Until we find any extra informations on the case, possibilites are unfortunately endless.
 
You forgot the cheese... and tulips...greetings from another European

It is a pity this man has not gotten his name back. I wish there was more info on how he died....natural or overdose? but European LE is notoriously not releasing that.
 
Bit of hope said:
Yes, absolutely, we just have to find the right channels, to get him "out".
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Hi just lurking along. All I could find, is him, being listed as a victim of murder.
The file itself is too large to upload (goes back to 1850,orso but I hope this will do)

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&sou...FjAAegQIARAC&usg=AOvVaw17T5SU7r14N_yypMDR4IGG
Also there seems to be some kind of a forum, who has a lot of PM pictures of unidentified persons.
Unidentified Persons
Could be given his looks that his origin was Irish, and I just read into the Magdalena Sisters, it's a sad history about the baby's who were born in a monastery, because of the stigma of unmarried or teenage mums.
Its really bad, what happened during those times.
 
The colors on his picture look a bit off to me. Is it possible the picture of the Dutch police was a black & white one back in 1986 and they colored it in? Like they did back in the days?
I know there were colored pictures in 1986, but they seemed to have lost all the details, maybe also the colored pictures? Maybe he’s a lot less ginger than the pictures? The hair rules a lot of possible men out…
 
Carovb5 said:
The colors on his picture look a bit off to me. Is it possible the picture of the Dutch police was a black & white one back in 1986 and they colored it in? Like they did back in the days?
I know there were colored pictures in 1986, but they seemed to have lost all the details, maybe also the colored pictures? Maybe he’s a lot less ginger than the pictures? The hair rules a lot of possible men out…
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I don't think the color of his hair rules people out. The eyebrows do.
 
I came across this missing Canadian man, Would have been 34 in 1986....I have doubts (eyebrows) but not enough to bring him up here. I would others to take a look and share your thoughts.

Richard Riquier
Person missing since: April 17, 1973

RIQUIER%20Richard.JPG


Richard Riquier Service de police de la Ville de Montréal - SPVM
 
I don’t think he was Eastern European, especially not Russian/Ukrainian as it was still difficult to leave the country in 80-ies, being from there myself I would say it is impossible to guess nationality by the face only. I think it is a case for Genetic Genealogy.
 
I'm getting more and more the feeling the PM picture is worked on. The eyebrows might have been exaggerated. You can see pixels like if you retouch a picture with older photo shop software...You see it in the eyebrows, the eyelashes, the chin, underneath the lip and also where his shirt is open. Is there an expert willing to take a look.

Warning, PM picture
Amsterdam - Nieuwezijds Voorburgwal | politie.nl
 
I noticed that too. That’s why i said the colors seemed off. The colors don’t look like a real picture to me (or edited).
Bit of hope said:
I'm getting more and more the feeling the PM picture is worked on. The eyebrows might have been exaggerated. You can see pixels like if you retouch a picture with older photo shop software...You see it in the eyebrows, the eyelashes, the chin, underneath the lip and also where his shirt is open. Is there an expert willing to take a look.

Warning, PM picture
Amsterdam - Nieuwezijds Voorburgwal | politie.nl
Click to expand...
 
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