NH NH - Maura Murray, 21, Haverhill, 9 Feb 2004 - #10

[SchoolgirlShamus]

I don't understand the new life/secret boyfriend theory. How would he know she had a wreck without the cell activity showing, and be able to pick her up within 10-15 minutes? It just seems unlikely.

 

[SchoolgirlShamus]

I mean... maybe she had a burner phone for contacting Mystery Boyfriend without being traced. But still... she wasn't near her destination, was she? It seems so unlikely that Mystery Boyfriend was within just a handful of miles and could come get her just at that unplanned moment.

It's odd how many missing-person cases (McStays and Jamisons, anyone?) have theorists who seriously consider "ran off to start a new life" as a probable solution. Until the people turn up dead, of course.

I would think the "new life" thing would be a fairly rare occurrence, not to mention extremely difficult in this day and age. I mean...a hundred years ago it would have been easy. Or even 60 years ago (a la Don Draper from Mad Men, haha). But now...?

 

[SchoolgirlShamus]

I'm happy to see so much activity and conversation after all this time. Just wanted to say thank you to everyone who still cares so much.

This case really haunts me. It's in my personal list of missing-person cases I most want(ed) solved -- oddly enough, 3 of which have been found during the last 8 months, all by sheer accident.

May the trend continue of discovery, closure, and hopefully prosecution for those which were determined to be homicide.

Katelyn Markham - found deceased April 2013
The McStays - found deceased November 2013
The Jamisons - found deceased November 2013 (pending positive ID)
Maura Murray
Brian Shaffer
The Springfield Three
Paige Johnson
Ron Tammen
Brandon Swanson (probable exposure/hypothermia, but still, no body)

 

[gnomony]

It seems so unlikely that Mystery Boyfriend was within just a handful of miles and could come get her just at that unplanned moment.

If they were traveling in tandem, he would have been just behind her or perhaps realized quickly that she was no longer behind him. I don't think anyone is suggesting that the mystery person was summoned from a distance to rescue her.

 

[scoops]

If they were traveling in tandem, he would have been just behind her or perhaps realized quickly that she was no longer behind him. I don't think anyone is suggesting that the mystery person was summoned from a distance to rescue her.

If this "Mystery Male" person was following behind Maura, you mean to tell me he is going to just sit there and watch as the bus driver approached maura. What if the bus driver had been up to no good or what if the bus driver had insisted upon waiting at the scene with maura until police arrived. Maura's tandem buddy would've been screwed.


And if this "Mystery Male" was traveling ahead of maura, you mean to tell me it took him almost 15 minutes to realize that maura was no longer behind him. Maura had several minutes where she was spotted alone at her car after her wreck. What was this "Mystery Male" doing during this time (if he was in front of her) ... collecting firewood in the forest.

The driving in tandem with someone else theory (while leaving no trail behind of communication) makes absolutely no sense whatsoever.

 

[Fireweed]

One thing I am ABSOLUTELY convinced about is that Maura's family, in particular, Fred, is not telling us everything. I think Maura was in some kind of trouble that clearly, he doesnt want to share. Of course, I understand his need to protect his daughter- he doesnt want her name dragged through the mud or to damage her reputation since its vital if people are going to help him they have some empathy or sympathy for Maura. I dont think Fred is directly involved in her disappearance but he is definitely holding back details. From Fred's demeanour he also seems to have some emotional problems of his own. I also find his insistence that *what happened to Maura prior to her disappearance is irrelevant* to be completely bizarre. Of course its relevant- the only reason he wouldn't be wanting to share this was if it reflected badly on Maura.

This is one the most bizarre aspects of this case. I used to dismiss the Vasi theories, but I cannot think of what else would be so bad in Maura's past that the Murrays would rather it be a secret than let it out in the hopes that it could lead to her being found.

But then I think sometimes that what may be really, really bad to Fred Murray, is not something that most people would think is all that bad. He strikes me as being very concerned about achievement and looking like a strong, capable family that excels at everything they do. I do not think he can change this mindset even in the midst of his daughter being missing.

You mentioned empathy and sympathy. I wonder if Fred knows that most of us have more empathy for someone who seems troubled. Does he honestly believe that if the public found out about Maura using someone else's credit card to order a pizza that we would stop looking for her? stop caring about her plight? Absurd.

 

[gnomony]

If this "Mystery Male" person was following behind Maura, you mean to tell me he is going to just sit there and watch as the bus driver approached maura. What if the bus driver had been up to no good or what if the bus driver had insisted upon waiting at the scene with maura until police arrived. Maura's tandem buddy would've been screwed.


And if this "Mystery Male" was traveling ahead of maura, you mean to tell me it took him almost 15 minutes to realize that maura was no longer behind him. Maura had several minutes where she was spotted alone at her car after her wreck. What was this "Mystery Male" doing during this time (if he was in front of her) ... collecting firewood in the forest.

The driving in tandem with someone else theory (while leaving no trail behind of communication) makes absolutely no sense whatsoever.

Yeah, probably collecting firewood.

I suppose if you apply enough sarcasm, nothing makes sense.

 

[KenShabby]

Maura had several minutes where she was spotted alone at her car after her wreck. What was this "Mystery Male" doing during this time (if he was in front of her) ... collecting firewood in the forest.

Perhaps hanging back until Maura was alone again, so that he would not be observed picking her up.

Incidentally, just to keep us honest, it wasn't necessarily a mystery MALE that she might have been meeting or traveling with. That is another one of those pieces of conventional wisdom based only on speculation.

The driving in tandem with someone else theory (while leaving no trail behind of communication) makes absolutely no sense whatsoever.

The lack of an electronic communication trail is troubling. (The communication trail consisting of the Murray family and Maura's friends has been voluntarily silent.) But, realize that the driving in tandem situation could make sense if the two people were driving on different roads from different points of origin, and planning to meet somewhere.

No one can say for sure that the tandem partner is the person who "rescued" Maura that night, but some theorists have speculated that Maura may have departed he crash scene on foot in the direction of the intended rendezvous.

 

[Fireweed]

I do not normally wonder if a person has a second cell phone for "secret" communications, but in Maura's case I think it is entirely possible that she did. Her phone was part of her boyfriend's mother's plan, that means that the mother (and the boyfriend) would know which numbers she called. It sounds like she and her boyfriend had been having problems for a while. I would not be surprised if Maura went out and got a prepaid phone. I know that is something I would consider doing in that situation.

 

[Aleph]

I do not normally wonder if a person has a second cell phone for "secret" communications, but in Maura's case I think it is entirely possible that she did. Her phone was part of her boyfriend's mother's plan, that means that the mother (and the boyfriend) would know which numbers she called. It sounds like she and her boyfriend had been having problems for a while. I would not be surprised if Maura went out and got a prepaid phone. I know that is something I would consider doing in that situation.

But weren't burner/prepaid phones much rarer in 2004? I am a few years older than Maura, but 2004 is about when I first got any cellphone at all. And it was a primitive thing.

I'm not saying it's impossible, but it would have been much more of a cloak-and-dagger thing to do in those days, and it would have cost money.

 

[Fireweed]

I am pretty sure they had those back then. I am the same age as Maura and I got my first cell phone in 1999. I graduated college in 2004 and I seem to recall Tracfone being advertised and available at Wal-mart.

Another possibility is that, if she did run off someone, that she had been added to that person's cell phone plan.

 

[scoops]

Perhaps hanging back until Maura was alone again, so that he would not be observed picking her up.

Incidentally, just to keep us honest, it wasn't necessarily a mystery MALE that she might have been meeting or traveling with. That is another one of those pieces of conventional wisdom based only on speculation.



The lack of an electronic communication trail is troubling. (The communication trail consisting of the Murray family and Maura's friends has been voluntarily silent.) But, realize that the driving in tandem situation could make sense if the two people were driving on different roads from different points of origin, and planning to meet somewhere.

No one can say for sure that the tandem partner is the person who "rescued" Maura that night, but some theorists have speculated that Maura may have departed he crash scene on foot in the direction of the intended rendezvous.

I love how the "Driving in tandem with Someone" theory has magically morphed over the years, yet no evidence has come to light in recent years that should be cause for the sudden change.

The original driving in tandem theory was used to explain that someone with not so good intentions lured maura away from civilization to do personal harm to her.

Under that scenario, however, maura would've had no expectation that she would not be returning to amherst or to her normal life and therefore, she likely would've left a communication trail with this person in some fashion (like on her computer).


Now a days, this driving in tandem partner" is someone who is helping maura escape her woeful life that includes the ever devastating $70 credit card fraud incident.

(Sarcasm alert) Wow, who wouldn't run away from life after such a dispicable crime. A crime so nasty that she was photographed in her own dorm and released within minutes and "the crime of the century" wasn't even going to be on maura's record in a couple of months.

Does anyone really believe that a minor incident involving credit card misuse, was so troubling to maura (yet she hid it and acted normal all winter break while home visiting her boyfriend and family) was cause for her several months later to flee life for good and start a whole new life in another country over it.

That theory does make for a good book though.

 

[Fireweed]

Does anyone really believe that a minor incident involving credit card misuse, was so troubling to maura (yet she hid it and acted normal all winter break while home visiting her boyfriend and family) was cause for her several months later to flee life for good and start a whole new life in another country over it.

No I certainly do not.

 

[scoops]

One final thought on the possibility of Maura driving in tandem with someone else: (minus the sarcasm).

If this indeed were the case and a friend was ahead of Maura or behind Maura as they headed towards the white mountains, (unless Maura's wreck was staged, which seems impossible) what sort of friend would lay-low and hide after either seeing Maura wreck in front of them or losing Maura in their rear view mirror and then back-tracking to see first-hand that Maura had wrecked?

I would think that this friend would be highly concerned that Maura was hurt.

I don't think they would even care if they approached Maura and someone else showed up on scene. They would want to make sure Maura was alright and they could always lie and say they were just driving by and were looking to offer their assistance to this wrecked driver.

And most importantly, once they established Maura was alright, they would want to get her out of the area as soon as possible.

Them just waiting off in the distance just doesn't make any sense.

They have no clue if Maura is going to even make it away from her car before police arrive.

I would think they (having the working vehicle) would take charge of the situation right away and swoop in and get Maura out of dodge. even letting a neighbor tend to Maura while you hid away up the road, would take you (as the friend) completely out of control of the situation.

If this was a well-planned runaway attempt, why would the friend give up complete control like that?

 

[Lolacat]

One final thought on the possibility of Maura driving in tandem with someone else: (minus the sarcasm).

If this indeed were the case and a friend was ahead of Maura or behind Maura as they headed towards the white mountains, (unless Maura's wreck was staged, which seems impossible) what sort of friend would lay-low and hide after either seeing Maura wreck in front of them or losing Maura in their rear view mirror and then back-tracking to see first-hand that Maura had wrecked?

I would think that this friend would be highly concerned that Maura was hurt.

I don't think they would even care if they approached Maura and someone else showed up on scene. They would want to make sure Maura was alright and they could always lie and say they were just driving by and were looking to offer their assistance to this wrecked driver.

And most importantly, once they established Maura was alright, they would want to get her out of the area as soon as possible.

Them just waiting off in the distance just doesn't make any sense.

They have no clue if Maura is going to even make it away from her car before police arrive.

I would think they (having the working vehicle) would take charge of the situation right away and swoop in and get Maura out of dodge. even letting a neighbor tend to Maura while you hid away up the road, would take you (as the friend) completely out of control of the situation.

If this was a well-planned runaway attempt, why would the friend give up complete control like that?

I totally agree. The tandem theory seems ridiculous to me. What kind of guy would let their girlfriend (who they supposedly care about) drive an unreliable car when she has a recent history of drink driving and was drinking that very day. By all accounts, Maura herself was wary enough of that car to not even want to drive it to work or around campus. If she wanted to disappear with a guy she could easily get a bus and have him pick her up at the stop etc..
Noone in their right minds would stage a crash RIGHT outside people's houses when they could stage a crash on another part of the road where noone lives and they'll be unseen.

Going back to your earlier point about suicide and her plans being thwarted by the crash. You mentioned her escalating her plans instead of regrouping and waiting until the next day. Do you think she tried to commit suicide in the woods? I was thinking how sad it is that if she was planning to kill herself on the top of the white mountains with an amazing view, what a bleak alternative it is to have to do it in the pitch black of the freezing woods. I hope to God that isn't the case because that makes me want to cry

 

[Lolacat]

This is one the most bizarre aspects of this case. I used to dismiss the Vasi theories, but I cannot think of what else would be so bad in Maura's past that the Murrays would rather it be a secret than let it out in the hopes that it could lead to her being found.

But then I think sometimes that what may be really, really bad to Fred Murray, is not something that most people would think is all that bad. He strikes me as being very concerned about achievement and looking like a strong, capable family that excels at everything they do. I do not think he can change this mindset even in the midst of his daughter being missing.

You mentioned empathy and sympathy. I wonder if Fred knows that most of us have more empathy for someone who seems troubled. Does he honestly believe that if the public found out about Maura using someone else's credit card to order a pizza that we would stop looking for her? stop caring about her plight? Absurd.

Yep, I agree. For a guy who seems like a proud over-achiever even something minor could send him into a tailspin. Although, having said that, his family seems to harbour quite a few dark secrets. Maura's mum had a drinking problem herself and their other daughter was arrested for growing weed 7 years after Maura went missing. Seems like addiction is a family issue.

 

[Coffeelover]

I've been reading this forum for years and have kept going back and forth between death from exposure (accidental) and suicide. It could really go either way. Just some random thoughts but I wonder if she might have hung herself on a high tree branch in the woods. A local teen did that a few years ago, in the winter, and because it was so heavily wooded, and presumably because the searchers didn't look up, they didn't find him for quite some time.

Another thought is about the possibility that she was hitchhiking and was taken by a killer. I always dismissed that because it's just so highly unlikely that on this country road in the middle of nowhere within a 10 minute time-span a killer would just happen to be driving by. But that may not have been the one who got her. She may have hitched a ride back to i-91 or to i-93, which are main highways running through the state, got a ride from someone else and who knows where she ended up. This past summer my 20-year-old daughter and a friend hitch-hiked across two countries in Europe (she got a big lecture about the dangers of this) and said that various drivers dropped them off at intersections along the way. So Maura may have made it to a main highway where the possibility of running into a killer would be much greater.

Just my random thoughts at the moment.
I'm glad her case is still so active here (and elsewhere) on the internet.

 

[Aleph]

I love how the "Driving in tandem with Someone" theory has magically morphed over the years, yet no evidence has come to light in recent years that should be cause for the sudden change.

The original driving in tandem theory was used to explain that someone with not so good intentions lured maura away from civilization to do personal harm to her.

Under that scenario, however, maura would've had no expectation that she would not be returning to amherst or to her normal life and therefore, she likely would've left a communication trail with this person in some fashion (like on her computer).


Now a days, this driving in tandem partner" is someone who is helping maura escape her woeful life that includes the ever devastating $70 credit card fraud incident.

(Sarcasm alert) Wow, who wouldn't run away from life after such a dispicable crime. A crime so nasty that she was photographed in her own dorm and released within minutes and "the crime of the century" wasn't even going to be on maura's record in a couple of months.

Does anyone really believe that a minor incident involving credit card misuse, was so troubling to maura (yet she hid it and acted normal all winter break while home visiting her boyfriend and family) was cause for her several months later to flee life for good and start a whole new life in another country over it.

That theory does make for a good book though.

The credit card offense (and the car crashes, etc) would have felt like a big deal to someone like Maura. She may have worried about not being able to get a nursing license because of it.

Women with eating disorders usually have a strong perfectionist streak and a tendency toward secrecy and pretending everything is fine when it isn't. That matches Maura's behavior exactly, not to mention that of her family after her disappearance. High standards, secret pain.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[KenShabby]

Correct me if I’m wrong, but I think that the driving in tandem theory(ies) were introduced to the conversation by James Renner. Personally, having seen no clear evidence, I am skeptical. One would think that Renner must have uncovered some fairly compelling indications along those lines — based on his current activities.

By all accounts, Maura herself was wary enough of that car to not even want to drive it to work or around campus.

Not necessarily by all accounts. One of my frustrations with these discussions is seeing how hearsay and conventional wisdom have become the facts of the case. One very minor example is the supposed condition of Maura's Saturn. Do we have any proof that Maura’s car was really in poor running condition? Similarly, we don’t know that a “secret boyfriend” was a factor in any of this — though many people who discuss the possibility of a planned permanent disappearance seem to take that idea as a given.

 

[OldSteve]

One final thought on the possibility of Maura driving in tandem with someone else: (minus the sarcasm).

If this indeed were the case and a friend was ahead of Maura or behind Maura as they headed towards the white mountains, (unless Maura's wreck was staged, which seems impossible) what sort of friend would lay-low and hide after either seeing Maura wreck in front of them or losing Maura in their rear view mirror and then back-tracking to see first-hand that Maura had wrecked?

I would think that this friend would be highly concerned that Maura was hurt.

I don't think they would even care if they approached Maura and someone else showed up on scene. They would want to make sure Maura was alright and they could always lie and say they were just driving by and were looking to offer their assistance to this wrecked driver.

And most importantly, once they established Maura was alright, they would want to get her out of the area as soon as possible.

Them just waiting off in the distance just doesn't make any sense.

They have no clue if Maura is going to even make it away from her car before police arrive.

I would think they (having the working vehicle) would take charge of the situation right away and swoop in and get Maura out of dodge. even letting a neighbor tend to Maura while you hid away up the road, would take you (as the friend) completely out of control of the situation.

If this was a well-planned runaway attempt, why would the friend give up complete control like that?

Good points! Oh, I did like the sarcasm :floorlaugh::floorlaugh:
Add to what you said - would think friend in tandem would have known about the booze and would helped get rid of it...