NH NH - Maura Murray, 21, Haverhill, 9 Feb 2004 - #10

[Fireweed]

Originally Posted by Fireweed View Post
Her mother did die and MM was mentioned in the obit. Renner ought to get Laurie Murrays probate records (those are totally public), and see if maybe Maura's share was put in a trust account or something.
I would bet the entire estate went to Fred. It's unusual to have a stable married couple not get the entire estate in the case of sole survivorship.

Ummm, pretty sure they had been divorced for years when she died!

 

[walkingdeadgirl]

I think we have to consider the life circumstances of people who start over and see if MM fits the bill.

If you are working a min wage job, living in a crummy apartment, no car, buy clothes at garage sales, etc. running away and starting over will probably mean little or no lifestyle change except socially.

If you were raised middle class, would you be willing to do that? Most people I know deeply fear living an insecure and risky lifestyle and wouldn't voluntarily give up everything to start new if it meant living like that.

You're using material possessions to determine who would be likely to start over, without taking an individual's personality, mental state, and current/past abuse, etc into account. I would think under some circumstances, some people could walk away from anything. And have.

 

[walkingdeadgirl]

I don't think that FM would have Maura declared dead, just based on my perception of how he would like to come across, and how he wants to present Maura. Declaring her dead would open the door for too many unpleasant suppositions.

 

[sleuthlady]

I always wondered what happened to her and where is she? I think someone picked her up along the highway and something terrible happened to her.

 

[deca]

You're using material possessions to determine who would be likely to start over, without taking an individual's personality, mental state, and current/past abuse, etc into account. I would think under some circumstances, some people could walk away from anything. And have.

I agree with you, I was really just speaking towards people in MMs situation.

Sure, people walk away if they are in an abusive relationship, in fear for their life, wanted by drug cartels, have a severe mental breakdown (most cases I have read where this has happened they usually return within a year or so), living on the streets, etc. I am sure people will bring up the credit card stuff, but I think that is a fairly paltry crime which would have resulted in a slap on the wrist, most likely.

So, could she have walked away? Yes. Is it likely? Not in my opinion. Giving up her relationship with her family, living a uncomfortable and probably miserable lifestyle working min wage somewhere under the radar seems like something most people like MM would not do.
JMO

 

[walkingdeadgirl]

I agree with you, I was really just speaking towards people in MMs situation.

Sure, people walk away if they are in an abusive relationship, in fear for their life, wanted by drug cartels, have a severe mental breakdown (most cases I have read where this has happened they usually return within a year or so), living on the streets, etc. I am sure people will bring up the credit card stuff, but I think that is a fairly paltry crime which would have resulted in a slap on the wrist, most likely.

So, could she have walked away? Yes. Is it likely? Not in my opinion. Giving up her relationship with her family, living a uncomfortable and probably miserable lifestyle working min wage somewhere under the radar seems like something most people like MM would not do.
JMO

Again, it would depend. Would Maura have considered the possible charges "paltry"? Was she used to living up to a picture perfect image? Was she being pressured by an over bearing, jealous boyfriend? Was she anxious about men she was seeing behind his back? Was she pregnant? Worried about being pregnant? Failing classes? Drinking more and more? Upset about crashing her father's car? Tired of being the "good" kid? From some accounts, she had a type a personality, and I would think that would be just the kind of person to break instead of bending if the pressure became too great.

Besides, the fact that she walked away isn't up for debate...that is fact. She wasn't abducted from her dorm. The question is how long she planned on being gone, and if she planned on returning, what happened to her after her second crash?

 

[deca]

Again, it would depend. Would Maura have considered the possible charges "paltry"? Was she used to living up to a picture perfect image? Was she being pressured by an over bearing, jealous boyfriend? Was she anxious about men she was seeing behind his back? Was she pregnant? Worried about being pregnant? Failing classes? Drinking more and more? Upset about crashing her father's car? Tired of being the "good" kid? From some accounts, she had a type a personality, and I would think that would be just the kind of person to break instead of bending if the pressure became too great.

Besides, the fact that she walked away isn't up for debate...that is fact. She wasn't abducted from her dorm. The question is how long she planned on being gone, and if she planned on returning, what happened to her after her second crash?

I get what you are saying and think that yours is a respectable opinion. My opinion is that I feel the "walk away" (as in start a new life somewhere) is unlikely. Like I said, JMO.

 

[Fireweed]

Besides, the fact that she walked away isn't up for debate...that is fact. She wasn't abducted from her dorm. The question is how long she planned on being gone, and if she planned on returning, what happened to her after her second crash?

Thank you. Maura did walk away from her life. It seems rather clear that Maura had the intention of leaving her life for at least a week. Could the second crash have shifted that intent to a lifetime? I think it is highly possible.

It is my own belief that Maura did not choose to run away from her life "forever" until after the second crash up in Haverhill.

 

[CircuitGuy]

Thank you. Maura did walk away from her life. It seems rather clear that Maura had the intention of leaving her life for at least a week. Could the second crash have shifted that intent to a lifetime? I think it is highly possible.

It is my own belief that Maura did not choose to run away from her life "forever" until after the second crash up in Haverhill.

I understand what you're saying, but I wouldn't call missing work to go to a cabin up north "walking away". Where I live in southern WI it's common for people to go up north to get away from it all. If someone got upset and took such as trip without telling anyone, I would not call it a shorter version of "walking away from their life".

I realize this is just a point of view. Technically you're right to call it a shorter version of starting a new life, but in my mind they're nothing similar.

 

[ZooSleuth]

I understand what you're saying, but I wouldn't call missing work to go to a cabin up north "walking away". Where I live in southern WI it's common for people to go up north to get away from it all. If someone got upset and took such as trip without telling anyone, I would not call it a shorter version of "walking away from their life".

I realize this is just a point of view. Technically you're right to call it a shorter version of starting a new life, but in my mind they're nothing similar.

If she was not already planning a long term change in her life, then why was her dorm room packed?

 

[Tssiemer]

I understand what you're saying, but I wouldn't call missing work to go to a cabin up north "walking away". Where I live in southern WI it's common for people to go up north to get away from it all. If someone got upset and took such as trip without telling anyone, I would not call it a shorter version of "walking away from their life".



I realize this is just a point of view. Technically you're right to call it a shorter version of starting a new life, but in my mind they're nothing similar.

"Taking a break"


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[Fireweed]

It is not just missing school for a week, it is also the fact that she packed up her entire dorm room at the beginning of the semester.

To me, this action at least points to Maura dropping out of school. I do not think Maura went up North as part of a planned "mini break"; I think she went up there in conjunction with a decision to totally change her current life.

Let me put it this way: whether Maura intended to return after one week, I do not think she intended on coming back to Mass and picking up her life where she left off. If she did intend on returning, I think her intent was to drop out of school and ditch Billy. I think she was also likely considering taking a big break from family drama, which may have meant having little or no contact with her family. I think all these things were going through her head when she wrecked up in Haverhill. I do not think that after the wreck she bolted with the intention of calling any of her family and friends to come up there and bail her out of her predicament. I think her mind had separated herself from her "other" life at that point. I am not entirely convinced that Maura (under her own volition) disappeared for good, but I think her state of mind at the time of the accident was one of a person who was on a path to making a very big and drastic change in her life.

 

[BillNH]

I understand what you're saying, but I wouldn't call missing work to go to a cabin up north "walking away". Where I live in southern WI it's common for people to go up north to get away from it all. If someone got upset and took such as trip without telling anyone, I would not call it a shorter version of "walking away from their life".

I realize this is just a point of view. Technically you're right to call it a shorter version of starting a new life, but in my mind they're nothing similar.

She didn't just "miss work" to take a break. She chose to miss the 3rd week of a very intense nursing program where even a day missed will put you behind. She had JUST returned from a 4 or 5 week break. Even in Wisconsin, people don't do that just because they are overwhelmed. People usually plan those getaways, request the time off work, or take the break 3 weeks prior when she was actually on break! She was clearly running from something and it is splitting hairs whether it was for a week or a lifetime. Unless you are Maura, there is no way to know what the intended amount of time was but it is certainly not a stretch, if you think it was a week, to think it was intended to be forever.

 

[BillNH]

It is not just missing school for a week, it is also the fact that she packed up her entire dorm room at the beginning of the semester.

To me, this action at least points to Maura dropping out of school. I do not think Maura went up North as part of a planned "mini break"; I think she went up there in conjunction with a decision to totally change her current life.

Let me put it this way: whether Maura intended to return after one week, I do not think she intended on coming back to Mass and picking up her life where she left off. If she did intend on returning, I think her intent was to drop out of school and ditch Billy. I think she was also likely considering taking a big break from family drama, which may have meant having little or no contact with her family. I think all these things were going through her head when she wrecked up in Haverhill. I do not think that after the wreck she bolted with the intention of calling any of her family and friends to come up there and bail her out of her predicament. I think her mind had separated herself from her "other" life at that point. I am not entirely convinced that Maura (under her own volition) disappeared for good, but I think her state of mind at the time of the accident was one of a person who was on a path to making a very big and drastic change in her life.

I agree to the point that no matter what, when she left UMASS Amherst that day, she knew her life would not be the same from that point on. She was running.

 

[Fireweed]

Which is why I find Maura's family to be so disingenuous. They know this about Maura. They know that her intent was clearly not to continue her life as she was living it. Her father claims that there is no way she ran away because she was going to be a nurse and she was going to be getting married, which is clearly not what Maura was intending for her life at all. I am still not convinced that she intentionally took off for good, but it is damn clear that her intent was not to take a week break and come back to where she left off. The Murrays and their supporters say we are "bashing" them when we point this out, but all we are doing is pointing out that they are not being sincere about Maura, and if they are not being sincere about this, then what else are they not being sincere about? And are those other things they are not being sincere about preventing Maura from being found?

I think these are totally fair questions to be asking.

 

[Jerri Blank]

Which is why I find Maura's family to be so disingenuous. They know this about Maura. They know that her intent was clearly not to continue her life as she was living it. Her father claims that there is no way she ran away because she was going to be a nurse and she was going to be getting married, which is clearly not what Maura was intending for her life at all. I am still not convinced that she intentionally took off for good, but it is damn clear that her intent was not to take a week break and come back to where she left off. The Murrays and their supporters say we are "bashing" them when we point this out, but all we are doing is pointing out that they are not being sincere about Maura, and if they are not being sincere about this, then what else are they not being sincere about? And are those other things they are not being sincere about preventing Maura from being found?

I think these are totally fair questions to be asking.

i have read in these threads many times that people seem to think maura's family know where she is or where she went, and i have to say, i really don't think that's the case. is FM potentially in denial about who his daughter was or what she was thinking? yeah, that sounds like a fair statement. i might even go as far as to say that some of her family may not want to hear any leads/ideas that paint her in a light they are not ready to see her in. but i don't think they are deliberately concealing anything from the public beyond the types of things that we would all hope our families would hold back in this situation. those of us who have been holding maura in our minds for these last 10 years may really want to have some of tidbits to better understand her, but we really they have no bearing at all on what happened to her that night and where she ended up the world.

not disagreeing with you really, just my own thoughts on this issue.

 

[walkingdeadgirl]

If a person consciously decides to give misleading information about a missing person's background, mental state, relationships, and other things that may help locate that person in order to retain a pristine image, that seems to have deliberate purpose to me.

I think for FM to immediately think Maura had run off with alcohol to commit suicide on a mountain like HE has always planned on doing at the end of his life can be seen as a sign that everything wasn'tgood with Maura and FM knew it. If you know it and it can help find her, why hide the truth? At the best, it will come out anyway. At the worst, people suspect you of having something to do with your daughter's disappearance.

Jmo.

 

[thenotebook]

I think she got into a car with someone. It would be hard to walk very far with that much alcohol in your backpack. The bottles would be clanking together and they'd be heavy. Plus there were no footprints.

 

[Jerri Blank]

If a person consciously decides to give misleading information about a missing person's background, mental state, relationships, and other things that may help locate that person in order to retain a pristine image, that seems to have deliberate purpose to me.

I think for FM to immediately think Maura had run off with alcohol to commit suicide on a mountain like HE has always planned on doing at the end of his life can be seen as a sign that everything wasn'tgood with Maura and FM knew it. If you know it and it can help find her, why hide the truth? At the best, it will come out anyway. At the worst, people suspect you of having something to do with your daughter's disappearance.

Jmo.

idk, i guess i dont think a lot of that stuff really would help LE figure out what happened to her. it would help us as sleuths get a fuller picture of who she is and why what happened to her happened to her. it would certainly help round out mr. renner's manuscript (a book i would read, no doubt). but i dont think knowing that MM left west point because she was sexually assaulted* or that when she was 13 MM's sister shoplifted from a store* have any real bearing on the facts of the night she disappeared. they are the details of a person's life that we as, for lack of a better word, an audience want to know. but they arent evidence of anything. people with severe mental disturbances can die of accidental exposure just as easily as they can die by intentional actions. people who are distraught over a failed relationship or unexpected pregnancy can be scooped up by a predator as easily as they can walk away and start a new life.

i probably wont stop asking the same questions many on this thread ask about those minute details, because after a decade i still have no clue what happened to her and i want to know, but really we aren't entitled to know them as a general public.

*both made up scenarios by me to prove a point

 

[walkingdeadgirl]

If someone has a past history of being abused, and is currently being abused, this can be cause for distress, and could give LE an idea of what happened, the same way blood found inside Maura's car and the amount of blood, whether her phone was left at the scene, if she had been crying every night on the phone to her father - all of these things are legitimate evidence that help paint a picture of the most likely scenario.
One tiny thing can turn a case from one direction to another, so every piece of information matters in order to form the most accurate picture.

People want to help find Maura, so they ask hard, important questions. They don't deserve to be treated like circling buzzards looking for gossip to spread around the corn patch.