NH NH - Maura Murray, 21, Haverhill, 9 Feb 2004 #15

[minazoe]

I know it sounds weird and maybe we discussed it in the past many years...but maybe there was a little of both ?

like maybe there were some things that should not have happened ( like the sexual assault of a drunk girl, or maybe she was lured or led to the bus or the house) on other pretenses.

then died suddenly from a head injury sustained in the accident...

because there was sex ( rape or consensual, (which I doubt) a total freak out ensues and her body is hidden away.

or someone strangled her.

mOO

 

[Stubbsy]

I know it sounds weird and maybe we discussed it in the past many years...but maybe there was a little of both ?

like maybe there were some things that should not have happened ( like the sexual assault of a drunk girl, or maybe she was lured or led to the bus or the house) on other pretenses.

then died suddenly from a head injury sustained in the accident...

because there was sex ( rape or consensual, (which I doubt) a total freak out ensues and her body is hidden away.

or someone strangled her.

mOO

Looking at the fact it was the last place that she can be put physically it leads me to believe that because after that it's like she just vanished and by all accounts it was butch and Cecil the ones closest or that had close contact with her after that there's nothing not even a trace which usually is very hard even if not her body a piece of clothing , some kind personal item and also if she was drinking like said and there's missing bottles where did they end up too as well

 

[Nadal]

Looking at the fact it was the last place that she can be put physically it leads me to believe that because after that it's like she just vanished and by all accounts it was butch and Cecil the ones closest or that had close contact with her after that there's nothing not even a trace which usually is very hard even if not her body a piece of clothing , some kind personal item and also if she was drinking like said and there's missing bottles where did they end up too as well

By all accounts she was gone before Cecil got there so he had no contact with her. It's fine if you don't believe these accounts but don't make up stuff to back up your argument, if we're going by the accounts then Cecil never had contact with her and Butch did for about a minute and called police immediately.

Bodies go missing without a trace all the time, actually a plane was missing for ages in that area nevermind a body, a bag and a few bottles.

 

[Nadal]

Renner made a post about what happened in BR trial - My Search for Maura Murray: The Trial

I don't think there's anything new to what i said a few pages back just more detail. As i've already said i personally think all this shows is BR is a bad person that would be my #1 suspect if she disappeared at say UMass while BR was visiting her, but the circumstances make me believe he had nothing to do with it. But i know some people think otherwise so thought i should post it in case anyone hasn't seen it. Gross as hell anyway separated from the case.

 

[PezCandy]

Renner made a post about what happened in BR trial - My Search for Maura Murray: The Trial

I don't think there's anything new to what i said a few pages back just more detail. As i've already said i personally think all this shows is BR is a bad person that would be my #1 suspect if she disappeared at say UMass while BR was visiting her, but the circumstances make me believe he had nothing to do with it. But i know some people think otherwise so thought i should post it in case anyone hasn't seen it. Gross as hell anyway separated from the case.

thank you for posting the link, I was wondering when he was gonna post more about it. Agreed tho that there isn’t really anything new except more in detail.

 

[Stubbsy]

By all accounts she was gone before Cecil got there so he had no contact with her. It's fine if you don't believe these accounts but don't make up stuff to back up your argument, if we're going by the accounts then Cecil never had contact with her and Butch did for about a minute and called police immediately.

Bodies go missing without a trace all the time, actually a plane was missing for ages in that area nevermind a body, a bag and a few bottles.

Sorry being lazy and just stealing someone else work but it's lot more organised than I'm Able to do atm



"I’ve decided to review the timeline known as a result of witness testimony. Here’s the timeline from the crash:



Maura Murray crashes her Saturn at approximately 7:25 PM (based on the fact that Faith Westman claimed to be working in their family office when she heard the crash, she ran to the window and noticed the vehicle and called 911 (I estimate this took 2 minutes))

Next Butch Atwood pulls up on scene. Now this is a bit tricky. According to an interview done by Withewash, Faith Westman estimates that Butch Atwood came on scene about a minute to two minutes after she called 911. Now if I estimate she took 2 minutes to call 911 from the time of the crash, then this would mean Butch Atwood was on scene approximately 3-4 minutes after the crash. Interestingly enough, according to an interview that Christine McDonald did with John Marotte, he claims that Butch Atwood showed up on scene approximately 4-5 minutes after the crash. If we want to be technical, then we could say he was there 3.5 to 4.5 minutes after Maura crashed her vehicle, which means he was there between 7:28:30 to 7:29:30 which is somewhat slightly different than the known timeline.

Next is where things differ. According to Faith Westman, Butch Atwood only stayed 1 to 2 minutes and left. According to the interview done with John Marotte, the time is more like 4-5 minutes. Now this is interesting, who do you believe? Let’s say the truth lies somewhere between the two numbers, then we can safely assume Butch stayed on scene approximately for 2.5 to 3.5 minutes. Now this means Butch Atwood left the scene at approximately 7:31:00 PM – 7:32:00 PM.

Now the next thing we know is that Butch Atwood called 911 at 7:42:00 PM. What I find confusing here is that Faith Westman called 911 at 7:27 PM and the call lasted 1:18 seconds. Butch Atwood was on scene longer than Faith Westman was on the phone. So as Butch was rounding the corner Faith was already off the phone so when Butch tried calling 911 and was re-routed, it wasn’t because Faith was on the phone with 911. Butch’s call lasted 3 minutes from 7:42 PM to 7:45 PM.

This means Maura would have been alone from about 7:31 – 7:42 PM which is much different than the 9-7 minutes theory that had been floating around for years. Maura Murray actually in all reality had about 11 minutes to disappear BUT…..

There’s something extremely disturbing and confusing. Perhaps someone can answer this one for me. During the interview with Whitewash, Faith Westman claimed she was on the phone when Cecil Smith showed up on scene! Have a look: (points 11-13)

So if this interview is correct, this places Cecil Smith on scene at the same time as Butch Atwood, let me explain. We have the 911 transcripts, how long do you think a call like this would last?



Faith Westman transcript
Recording from Grafton Dispatch____________________________________Case F 04-1514

G 1: Grafton County Dispatcher 1 Ronda Marsh
D1 : 9-1-1 Dispatcher
FW: Faith Westman

G1: Grafton County Dispatcher Marsh, can I help you?

FW: Yes um we apparently have uh a car has gone off the road here outside our home.

G1: Ok, is anybody hurt?

FW: Um I, I have not gone out to investigate um-

G1: Ok.

FW:________________________________

G1: Are you in- you’re in Bath, correct?

FW: Uh well actually um no Haverhill I’m on the Weathered Barn um.

G1: Oh you’re the Weathered Barn, ok.

DJ: Grafton this is 911 I show it as __________________________ (Inaudible)

G1: Mhmm, right (Inaudible) Yup that is Haverhill, ok um very good uh is this Faith?

FW: Yes.

G1: I’m speaking with?

FW: Yes.

G1: And is your phone number__________________?

FW: Correct.

G1: And your address is _____________?

FW: Right.

G1: Ok, um I’ll be sending an Officer.

FW: Ok (inaudible) around the corner from, from the barn.

G1: So after the barn?

FW: Yeah.

G1: Ok.

FW: ____________________________________________

G1: Ok, very good I’ll- I’m sending an Officer.

FW: Yeah.

G1: Ok?

FW: Ok, thanks (inaudible)

G1: Thanks Faith (inaudible).

FW: Yeah bye, bye.



Seriously, she claims that Cecil Smith arrived on scene during this call? Anyone else find this strange? So if the interview Faith Westman gave to Whitewash is to be believed, Butch Atwood arrived on scene at about 7:31:00 PM – 7:32:00 PM and Cecil Smith arrived shortly after, putting him on scene with Maura Murray (now this is IF the inverview with Witewash is to be believed and it shatters the known timeline. What do you think? Btw someone please record themselves reading the transcripts and tell me how long it takes you, took me less than 2 minutes!"

not sure it's possible to see so put image as well

 

[Nadal]

Sorry being lazy and just stealing someone else work but it's lot more organised than I'm Able to do atm



"I’ve decided to review the timeline known as a result of witness testimony. Here’s the timeline from the crash:



Maura Murray crashes her Saturn at approximately 7:25 PM (based on the fact that Faith Westman claimed to be working in their family office when she heard the crash, she ran to the window and noticed the vehicle and called 911 (I estimate this took 2 minutes))

Next Butch Atwood pulls up on scene. Now this is a bit tricky. According to an interview done by Withewash, Faith Westman estimates that Butch Atwood came on scene about a minute to two minutes after she called 911. Now if I estimate she took 2 minutes to call 911 from the time of the crash, then this would mean Butch Atwood was on scene approximately 3-4 minutes after the crash. Interestingly enough, according to an interview that Christine McDonald did with John Marotte, he claims that Butch Atwood showed up on scene approximately 4-5 minutes after the crash. If we want to be technical, then we could say he was there 3.5 to 4.5 minutes after Maura crashed her vehicle, which means he was there between 7:28:30 to 7:29:30 which is somewhat slightly different than the known timeline.

Next is where things differ. According to Faith Westman, Butch Atwood only stayed 1 to 2 minutes and left. According to the interview done with John Marotte, the time is more like 4-5 minutes. Now this is interesting, who do you believe? Let’s say the truth lies somewhere between the two numbers, then we can safely assume Butch stayed on scene approximately for 2.5 to 3.5 minutes. Now this means Butch Atwood left the scene at approximately 7:31:00 PM – 7:32:00 PM.

Now the next thing we know is that Butch Atwood called 911 at 7:42:00 PM. What I find confusing here is that Faith Westman called 911 at 7:27 PM and the call lasted 1:18 seconds. Butch Atwood was on scene longer than Faith Westman was on the phone. So as Butch was rounding the corner Faith was already off the phone so when Butch tried calling 911 and was re-routed, it wasn’t because Faith was on the phone with 911. Butch’s call lasted 3 minutes from 7:42 PM to 7:45 PM.

This means Maura would have been alone from about 7:31 – 7:42 PM which is much different than the 9-7 minutes theory that had been floating around for years. Maura Murray actually in all reality had about 11 minutes to disappear BUT…..

There’s something extremely disturbing and confusing. Perhaps someone can answer this one for me. During the interview with Whitewash, Faith Westman claimed she was on the phone when Cecil Smith showed up on scene! Have a look: (points 11-13)

So if this interview is correct, this places Cecil Smith on scene at the same time as Butch Atwood, let me explain. We have the 911 transcripts, how long do you think a call like this would last?



Faith Westman transcript
Recording from Grafton Dispatch____________________________________Case F 04-1514

G 1: Grafton County Dispatcher 1 Ronda Marsh
D1 : 9-1-1 Dispatcher
FW: Faith Westman

G1: Grafton County Dispatcher Marsh, can I help you?

FW: Yes um we apparently have uh a car has gone off the road here outside our home.

G1: Ok, is anybody hurt?

FW: Um I, I have not gone out to investigate um-

G1: Ok.

FW:________________________________

G1: Are you in- you’re in Bath, correct?

FW: Uh well actually um no Haverhill I’m on the Weathered Barn um.

G1: Oh you’re the Weathered Barn, ok.

DJ: Grafton this is 911 I show it as __________________________ (Inaudible)

G1: Mhmm, right (Inaudible) Yup that is Haverhill, ok um very good uh is this Faith?

FW: Yes.

G1: I’m speaking with?

FW: Yes.

G1: And is your phone number__________________?

FW: Correct.

G1: And your address is _____________?

FW: Right.

G1: Ok, um I’ll be sending an Officer.

FW: Ok (inaudible) around the corner from, from the barn.

G1: So after the barn?

FW: Yeah.

G1: Ok.

FW: ____________________________________________

G1: Ok, very good I’ll- I’m sending an Officer.

FW: Yeah.

G1: Ok?

FW: Ok, thanks (inaudible)

G1: Thanks Faith (inaudible).

FW: Yeah bye, bye.



Seriously, she claims that Cecil Smith arrived on scene during this call? Anyone else find this strange? So if the interview Faith Westman gave to Whitewash is to be believed, Butch Atwood arrived on scene at about 7:31:00 PM – 7:32:00 PM and Cecil Smith arrived shortly after, putting him on scene with Maura Murray (now this is IF the inverview with Witewash is to be believed and it shatters the known timeline. What do you think? Btw someone please record themselves reading the transcripts and tell me how long it takes you, took me less than 2 minutes!"

not sure it's possible to see so put image as well

I had never seen this before so i looked it up. From what i can tell it was posted on the old MauraMurrayForum and Topix by someone called Kelly White who may have knew the Westman's. This isn't a verbatim report of her interview with the Westman's it's her comparing three different things: what the Westman's said, what the accident report said and what the media said.

I dunno it's all very confusing and i haven't even been able to find Kelly White's original post. All i'll point out is this is not anything official or confirmed and the information does not come entirely from the Westman's so that part could have came from an innaccurate news report. Her interview with the Westman's was also apparently in 2007 three years after it happened, like i said it's very easy for witnesses recollections to get confused as years go by, happens all the time and that's if that even came directly from them.

There's very little about this online from what i can see, so yeah i'm comfortable saying it's interesting but i'll take it with a grain of salt as it's too easy for it to have got confused considering what it is, definitely not a smoking gun IMO. Thanks for posting it though.

Here's a Reddit thread discussing it and explaining what it is if anyone's interested, would link to somewhere more official but like i said there doesn't seem to be much about it online - IMO, the most detailed account of what transpired when Maura wrecked near the entrance to the white mountains : mauramurray

 

[sony12]

Just read the update on the Renner page regarding the trial. No there is no evidence from what we have heard that Bill was involved in the disappearance but it is extremely suspicious that someone that Bill was previously involved with disappeared. Bill might not officially be a sexual predator just yet but he is really probably only one step away from raping someone (that is if he hasn't done it already and just hasn't been caught).

Even if Bill officially didn't make Maura disappear himself I still wouldn't at all be surprised if he knows what happened to her.

I tell you though it is very alarming that he is referring to his post Maura girlfriends as Maura. 99% of guys wouldn't do that strictly because it is extremely rude to do so but given all the additional circumstances it makes it seem very suspicious.

 

[Stubbsy]

I had never seen this before so i looked it up. From what i can tell it was posted on the old MauraMurrayForum and Topix by someone called Kelly White who may have knew the Westman's. This isn't a verbatim report of her interview with the Westman's it's her comparing three different things: what the Westman's said, what the accident report said and what the media said.

I dunno it's all very confusing and i haven't even been able to find Kelly White's original post. All i'll point out is this is not anything official or confirmed and the information does not come entirely from the Westman's so that part could have came from an innaccurate news report. Her interview with the Westman's was also apparently in 2007 three years after it happened, like i said it's very easy for witnesses recollections to get confused as years go by, happens all the time and that's if that even came directly from them.

There's very little about this online from what i can see, so yeah i'm comfortable saying it's interesting but i'll take it with a grain of salt as it's too easy for it to have got confused considering what it is, definitely not a smoking gun IMO. Thanks for posting it though.

Here's a Reddit thread discussing it and explaining what it is if anyone's interested, would link to somewhere more official but like i said there doesn't seem to be much about it online - IMO, the most detailed account of what transpired when Maura wrecked near the entrance to the white mountains : mauramurray

Problem with this case is that there's so many contradictory clues and even trolls lately Jason Hebert been doing lot work in his YouTube channel about the case and it's worth have look, found lot info here too

-

 

[jaejae]

Here is another recent Podcast about events surrounding this case:

 

[Nadal]

but it is extremely suspicious that someone that Bill was previously involved with disappeared.

Who disappeared that was previously involved with Bill? I've genuinely tried to read that blog post four times and just can't get through it, purely because it's so poorly written i'm fine accepting what he says.

 

[sony12]

Who disappeared that was previously involved with Bill? I've genuinely tried to read that blog post four times and just can't get through it, purely because it's so poorly written i'm fine accepting what he says.

Maura. It's pretty suspicious that Bill seems to only be a step or two away from being a criminal himself and someone that he was involved with ended up disappearing. And he just so happens to be yelling curses at his other girlfriends all the while calling them by the name of the girl from his past who disappeared.

It's very possible that the victim agreed to having rough sex. However calling her Maura is extremely weird and it clearly seemed weird to the victim. Also the stalking and the physical violence outside of the rough sex episodes is alarming as well.

One incident that was mentioned was that Bill hit her so hard it caused her to chip a tooth. And afterward he would ask her to send him pictures of the bruises.

 

[sony12]

After hearing this news about the trial I think they really need to start looking harder at the people that Maura associated herself with. If she was choosing to run around with a person like Bill chances are the other individuals in her life weren't real good people at the time either.

Again probably only a small handful of the people that Maura associated herself with are publicly known to us. Think it is time for authorities to do some digging to find some of the other people Maura associated with.

 

[Palmdale1991]

Third option: during travel, succumbed to accident -- death by misadventure.

(Spell-check is your friend, BTW YMMV JMHO)

I am always curious about this point - you would think that a body would show up?

 

[sony12]

Even though it might be a little shocking hearing all these new revelations about Bill (and possibly some of Maura's other friends) at the same time though it may mean that they are a lot closer to actually finding out what happened to her that night.

 

[minazoe]

sometimes where there's smoke there's fire...so Maura just happens to have this guy who's a psychotic abuser.

"well well'... as Joe Kenda would say.

 

[SAMS]

sometimes where there's smoke there's fire...so Maura just happens to have this guy who's a psychotic abuser.

"well well'... as Joe Kenda would say.

Lol I saw his face when I read this

 

[sony12]

sometimes where there's smoke there's fire...so Maura just happens to have this guy who's a psychotic abuser.

"well well'... as Joe Kenda would say.

Yep. If Maura was going out on Friday nights with her church group than I think you could pretty safely eliminate her circle of friends from being part of this. But from all accounts Maura ran with some pretty shady people (at least they were a little shady when they were in their early 20's) so they really need to be looked at thoroughly.

Maura lived in the dorms. It should be possible to track down the people that lived around Maura's hall while she was there. A lot of times in a dorm setting the people that get to know you the best are the people that you live around. They may not have partied with Maura but they would likely be able to give some idea of the people that Maura did hang out with. As of now we really only know a few people that Maura spent time with but you know there were far more individuals than that that were around Maura's social life. THe people that lived around Maura might be able to give some hints to who some of those unknown friends were.

If Maura was willingly with Bill chances are good she had other people like Bill in her life as well.

 

[minazoe]

Not the first young woman to collect bad boys and outcasts...Maura was probably very empathic and I have no doubt in my mind that the idea to use someones credit card to order pizza..etc, came from an outside influence.

Also she could have been suffering from serious uncontrollable alcoholism. There are some people who can tell you they took their first drink, and that was the end..they could only function in the "real world" for so long.

Maura was spiraling, and once you accept this, then it opens up the possibility that she could have been with someone who was in another car. Even someone from a bar...someone heading to the same destination, someone who would take the same road to get there, someone following closely because her car was garbage...or because she they knew she was hammered. or possibly Maura was following someone but they slipped behind ..following her , and when they went by she took off up road to get the h out of there and they were waiting enough up ahead to not arouse attention.


hmpff...Maura on my mind. mOO

 

[sony12]

Not the first young woman to collect bad boys and outcasts...Maura was probably very empathic and I have no doubt in my mind that the idea to use someones credit card to order pizza..etc, came from an outside influence.

Also she could have been suffering from serious uncontrollable alcoholism. There are some people who can tell you they took their first drink, and that was the end..they could only function in the "real world" for so long.

Maura was spiraling, and once you accept this, then it opens up the possibility that she could have been with someone who was in another car. Even someone from a bar...someone heading to the same destination, someone who would take the same road to get there, someone following closely because her car was garbage...or because she they knew she was hammered. or possibly Maura was following someone but they slipped behind ..following her , and when they went by she took off up road to get the h out of there and they were waiting enough up ahead to not arouse attention.


hmpff...Maura on my mind. mOO

Definitely true that it isn't uncommon for young women of that age range to gravitate towards guys who may not treat them the best. They fall for those types of guys for lots of different reasons. In a lot of cases they view them as funner to be around than the guys who are nervous to even talk to girls (that's probably the biggest reason) and at other times they just like guys who will make decisions for them (this tends to be the case for the young women who feel pretty insecure about themselves). It usually isn't until later after they have done some maturing that they realize that those attributes in a guy doesn't lead to real good relationships.

However I wouldn't try to place the blame of those stolen credit cards onto anyone else but Maura. Remember 20 year old girls are often just as dumb as 20 year old guys are. Maura at that stage in her life didn't seem to be learning from bad decisions she made so I could fully see her choosing to take some credit cards to get pizza simply because she wanted pizza and didn't have any money of her own. A lot of times people at that age don't have respect for other people's property and they don't pay attention to potential consequences of their actions. All they honestly think about is themselves