Match! NY - Caledonia, WhtFem 1UFNY, 13-19, Turquoise Necklace, Nov'79 *Tammy Alexander*

[rainwater]

For whatever reason, the ebiz.....Australian link for Marion Rees above is not working. There is a "webpage not available" message when you click the link.

 

[Roselvr]

For whatever reason, the ebiz.....Australian link for Marion Rees above is not working. There is a "webpage not available" message when you click the link.

Tons on google

 

[CarlK90245]

This girl (Janice Ellisabeth Hackh) was just added to NAMPN on June 9.

http://www.nampn.org/cases/hackh_janice_ellisabeth.html

There's not much info on her except for age, location LKA, and Date LKA. The photo quality is terrible.

But her age and Date LKA are right. And her photo looks close enough, IMO, that I wouldn't rule her out as being Cali.

 

[carbuff]

Looks like she's one of something like 14 people who have been murdered or missing in the small town of Quesnel BC since 1971: http://chriscrimeforum.freeforums.org/what-is-going-on-in-quesnel-b-c-t2450.html

http://www.quesnel.ca/RCMP-Unsolved.html

I'm turning up more interesting conspiracy theories than I am actual information....

 

[CarlK90245]

A little more info in this newspaper article - (Cariboo Observer - November 6, 1985)

http://www.quesnelmuseum.ca/caribooobserverdocs/1985/19851106_Cariboo Observer-2.pdf

A 28 year old Calgary man was sentenced to 15 months in jail for dangerous driving in an incident related to the six-year disappearance of a Port Coquitlam girl. Lloyd Victor Rach was acquitted of assault causing bodily harm but was convicted of dangerous driving after a two day trial by magistrate September 10.

The trial centered around transcripts of clandestinely recorded conversations between Rach and Quesnell RCMP. In the conversations, Rach admits pushing Janice Elizabeth Hackh out of a moving car over a steep embankment near Pinnacles Provincial Park. The incident occurred two days after she was reported missing from her Lower Mainland home on August 24, 1979. Hackh was 16 at the time.

No trace of Hackh's body has ever been found despite extensive ground searches in the steep ravine where police believe she fell. Police presume Hackh is dead.

Unless you presume that Rach was lying, it doesn't look like Hackh is Cali.

 

[traacker13]

The more I look at Margaret Holst the more I feel like she should be looked into.

Margaret Kay Holst

Cali Doe
<<<Mod Snip>>>

What do you think? She is slightly older and listed as taller but what gets me is the mention of the forehead scar, the texture and color of her hair and the unusual up turned nose

 

[traacker13]

Better comparison
<<<Modsnip>>>

 

[BaxterDE42]

Has this girl been mentioned as a possible? Missing '77. Demographic look good. I never consider location but she is from CA. Wasn't there a bug or plant analysis consistant with the south or SW?
I thnk the resemblence is compelling. Teeth look inline. I think with a bit more connecting the dots she could be a likely MP to get a scientific review.
http://www.charleyproject.org/images/h/hynson_eileen.jpg

 

[traacker13]

Yep, she's on the rule out list. I forget her name though...

 

[traacker13]

I found Margaret Holst in Namus and DNA is on file so I imagine this is probably a rule out by default...

 

[Wanting2Help]

It's only a rule out if they have the same types of DNA on file.... (I didn't look)

 

[Caring4Many]

If you have any reason to think it's a possibility you should seriously send it to the investigator in charge. All options should be explored & IMO I think these are great ones. Living in the area where she was found, I'd love to be able to know who she was. Passing that field once a week or so breaks my heart to know she's still unnamed.

 

[BaxterDE42]

Thanks for the comment. However, DNA is not the be all-endall in identification. Many folks are not aware that fingerprints can be more accurate than DNA. The same profile can be built from two persons - twins, but even twins don't have matching prints.

Also on DNA...the results are only as good as the collection, the process and the entry. Also the best bet on some types of DNA is TWO samples from different persons in the same family.
The demographics fit. The tan lines explained. The SW jewelry, the teeth, facial structure (most important) and other issues. I went ahead and spoon fed them with the circumstances and side by side photos, etc. If I was a family member of this one, I would ask for more DNA testing. Almost forgot this....There are instances where the father's DNA is used for comparison. Problem? If the missing persons father is not really the bio father! Never give up1

Keep up the reporting! Sometimes we overthink these cases. For instance, the nose on this Jane Doe? Appears to me the gunshot would have shattered the bridge, leaving a more exagerated flat bridge.

 

[Still_Seek_Answers]

Thanks for the comment. However, DNA is not the be all-endall in identification. Many folks are not aware that fingerprints can be more accurate than DNA. The same profile can be built from two persons - twins, but even twins don't have matching prints.

Also on DNA...the results are only as good as the collection, the process and the entry. Also the best bet on some types of DNA is TWO samples from different persons in the same family.
The demographics fit. The tan lines explained. The SW jewelry, the teeth, facial structure (most important) and other issues. I went ahead and spoon fed them with the circumstances and side by side photos, etc. If I was a family member of this one, I would ask for more DNA testing. Almost forgot this....There are instances where the father's DNA is used for comparison. Problem? If the missing persons father is not really the bio father! Never give up1

Keep up the reporting! Sometimes we overthink these cases. For instance, the nose on this Jane Doe? Appears to me the gunshot would have shattered the bridge, leaving a more exagerated flat bridge.

I agree. If we rule out by default just because they both have DNA in the system, then it becomes very possible to overlook her even if she is right in front of us. While it is a great theory that if they are both in the system, then they'd automatically hit on each other....it doesn't always happen. I also agree that the bridge of her nose appears flatter than it was. Gun shot wounds often break facial bones and distort a persons features.

 

[BaxterDE42]

Just wanted to update with info. Prior to sending a case report, I had all the photo work done...meaning measurements taken by software for this purpose. Distances between eyes bone structure hairline, etc. All match. Enhanced photos show what appears to be broken or decayed tooth (14) which is listed as a particularly bad tooth for Cali. Although no uniques marks for Cali are listed, I can see a faint dot on lower lip in same area as that of Cali.
Hair is brown and curly which is also consistant. Eye color consistant, as is height. Weight is down a few pounds but never considered in a potential match if the time frame is long.
Cali had tan lines in NOv. Odd? Not if from California which also is one of the three places unique to the pollen screening. SW jewelry just a side but interesting.

Everyone who had an email listing received an email reoprt along with phone calls to Atorney General, California and NY contacts.

PLease! I can't stress this enough. disregard tip lines!!! Most folks working these with the exception of missing children, either ignore thiese tips or completely dismiss them. Make your case short, sweet and as concice as possible but get the attention of your receipient by not only listing consistencies, but by connecting the dots for them. Helen went missing 2 years before Cali was found. She went missing under suspicious circumstances. If she was ditched by a companion, I can see her hitching rides. Also try to find a reason to believe your MP would end up across the country as a UP. If you believe in it (your case)...then sell it and make others believe it. These UP's must have someone looking beyond superficial photos. Learn to research and learn facial structure and how features change due to trauma or decomp. I hapen to know there are very serious researchers here and am thankful every day for it. I will be calling on a couple of you to assist me with my missing relative soon.

NOTE: I am NOT saying this MP is Cali. I am saying I believe it to be based on all of the non-scientific comparisons and research based on the circumstances of both cases. I have done my best to "sell" this possibility to those who make the decision to revisit a scientific review.
If it is not her, then my research is saved for another possible. Never toss out your notes or ideas!

Just another side....I do not understand how Cali's postmortem images got morphed into what I am seeing on DOE!! None of the measurements work and if we go by recons we can be searching an entirely different age group.

 

[traacker13]

I agree with most of this but I think we should have the utmost respect for those in law enforcement who see this stuff everyday and have trained to work on this stuff. Not that I am discrediting anyone (including myself) who frequents this site and investigates with the passion and investment that we all do, but I am saying it's important to respect LE. LE has also spent countless hours and surely sleepless nights investigating and scouring evidence and paperwork and crime scenes. I praise them for their tenacity and thank them for their willingness to listen to us.

I also think what everyone does on this site is remarkable. Anyone who spends their time and effort to help solve crimes or help aide in the identification of murder victims should be proud of their involvement. We are here to possibly open doors that were once shut or help to aide LE when time constraints and budgets don't allow.

So I tip my hat to all of us! Best of luck in future sleuthing to all sleuthers whether LE or not!!

 

[BaxterDE42]

I don't see anyone here bashing LE. The very nature of their hard work in this evil world prevents them from logging every call tip, suggestion, "submission" sent their way. There cmes a point when they just don't have the time to filter out go-nowhere info. It is because of their training and dedication they tend to steer away from suggestions presented without any basis other than a photo or rumor. I applaud them! Even the notion anyone here is "solving" cases or "assisting" LE is absurd. Speaking for myself... I search for the missing...that's all. If I have info I believe to be important, I present it to those who will follow through and they either solve it or not, depending on the accuracy of that information.
Thank you for reminding us of the incredible job LE has and their efforts in solving these cases. I trust them far more than a data base!

 

[traacker13]

I don't see anyone here bashing LE. The very nature of their hard work in this evil world prevents them from logging every call tip, suggestion, "submission" sent their way. There cmes a point when they just don't have the time to filter out go-nowhere info. It is because of their training and dedication they tend to steer away from suggestions presented without any basis other than a photo or rumor. I applaud them! Even the notion anyone here is "solving" cases or "assisting" LE is absurd. Speaking for myself... I search for the missing...that's all. If I have info I believe to be important, I present it to those who will follow through and they either solve it or not, depending on the accuracy of that information.
Thank you for reminding us of the incredible job LE has and their efforts in solving these cases. I trust them far more than a data base!

I wasn't trying to present it that way but I find it discrediting to some of us to assume your own sleuthing skills are any better than anyone else. And sometimes it is a "hunch" or a "feeling" that solves a case. It is not always written in stone which is why many of these cases go unsolved for years. To some extent, I believe rumors should be followed up on. I'm not saying every rumor that comes down the pike is accurate, but do I agree that some contain elements of truth if they perpetuate over time. They could. And what harm would that do to investigate a rumor? I don't think it's at all "absurd" to presume people here help solve cases or assist LE. I agree that you need by-in. Without some of the work of people on this site, some would still have no name. Maybe "solve" is too important of a word (?) but I do know that what we do here is not in vain. Nor do I feel like we need to dot every I and cross every t before we feel like we need to present something to LE. I strongly believe (and I still do) that Barbara Cotton (http://www.charleyproject.org/cases/c/cotton_barbara.html) is the Buckskin girl. Dental records on file do not match but I wish they would investigate this further and I feel like part of the rigidity is part of the problem some matches aren't made. Just my two cents. I in no means meant to start something, I just wanted to say that I do think people on this site work hard at what they do and that deserves admiration (whether they "solve" crimes or not).

 

[BaxterDE42]

Traacker13 and all,
It was not my intent to teach a way of research or present my methods of 40 plus years to be superior.

This site is valuable and effective largely due to differing opinions, approaches and "hunches". I am in awe of the dedication of those here who have had no formal inbvestigative training. I am truly sorry if you took my post to be anything more than it was which is a generally effective way of getting agencies to pay attention to the info rather than leave a phone tip and leave them with more work in researching that tip. MEs, LE, AGs have researchers simply for that time saving reason.

I agree with you about further investigation in these cases. Many if not most tule outs should have (imo) a hands on personal review....NOT merely relying on what could be bad information entered in the computer. I also have a case where the dental was entered based on a photo which was reversed! Now that won't match no matter how you slice it!
Again, no offense meant. Geet up the good work and maybe we can all come up with a way to get a second review once a person has been "rejected" by the data base.

 

[traacker13]

BaxterDE no offense taken. I think we're both in agreement that human intervention of any kind is a much better approach than to assume a rule out can be done only simply by database rules. thank you also for your insight! It is much appreciated.