NY-LI 10 bodies found on Beach-Poss. SrlKlr-12/10-4 id'd; more found 3/11 #9

[KPCrimeNY]

Good point about the cops not knowing who was involved. I thought that GC knew that night that Shannan had come from JB's house (I thought MP had told him that) but now that I look back, I don't think he was aware of that detail until a few months later.

I'm not sure I think JB is a killer, I just think he is doing a lot of lying about the circumstances of that night. I understand he doesn't want to implicate himself or admit publicly that he knowingly hired a prostitute, it's just frustrating. Are we supposed to believe that he spent 2-3 hours with a woman from what he now says was a "social networking site" before accusing her of not looking like her picture and being a transexual? Something doesn't add up.

BBM
Just some more of my thoughts here...
I found that interesting as well now too. What if it wasn't CraigsList that she was called from? As a matter of fact do we know for sure that she set up the next appointment?

If she was working independent as the boyfirend claims why would she not use her own picture?

I was crusing around backpage the other day for educational purposes:truce: for what we talk about here. Seems to me that many of those girls had the same phone number. Obviously points towards pimp. Then some of them had some pictures with their posts. Which I would bet the farm that girl in the picture is not showing up at your party.

I can't put a theory to it yet but, could she have been set up to end up out in OB by somebody that we so far have not heard of.

I also am finding it interesting that MP is now saying nobody else was there that night. What happened to the drifter/other person at the party? What I also find interesting is that MP now says he was the guy that talked to GC. So no other strange SUV there that night now? Which IMO means if she was pulled into truck MP knows the deal of what happened that night...

 

[shadowraiths]

What is with all these guys pretending they're innocent bystanders? ( link, h/t [ame=http://websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?p=6662955#post6662955]NJGuy[/ame] )

It was during this time that Gilbert moved to New Jersey and got into the sex industry. In 2007, while working for an agency called Lace Party Girls, Gilbert, then 21, was caught in a Route 17 hotel sting and charged with engaging in prostitution, according to Upper Saddle River police.

It was through Lace Party Girls that she met Alex Diaz, a driver for the agency who made $400 to $800 a day. His record haul was $2,600 in one day, he said. Diaz, a 29-year-old man with dark, shaggy hair, said he and Gilbert became a couple around 2008.

[…]

"I retaliated and hit her back," he said. "I hit her too hard."
The punch fractured the left side of her jaw, which needed a metal plate to be fixed, he said. The plate would make her body easily identifiable, should it be found.

[…]

Even though Diaz was unemployed, Gilbert could afford new furniture and a plasma TV for their apartment close to the Grove Street PATH train. The living room was stacked with DVDs, which Gilbert bought one-by-one during frequent trips to Target.

[...]

"When a girl goes missing, they go to the boyfriend," he said. "I know my phone is tapped. I’m not stupid. I’m glad. Maybe somebody will slip up and say something."​

So, her oh-so-innocent unemployed driver, who broke her jaw, became her alleged boyfriend? Sounds to me like shades of the recent SD County sex ring bust. Excerpted below. ( link, pp 13-14 )

d. Members of the Enterprise, acting as pimps, controlled their females, and punished them if they broke the rules set by the pimp. Punishment included physical beatings, verbal lashings and/or other humiliating acts toward the prostitute.

e. Members of the Enterprise, acting as pimps, sold, traded or "gifted" prostitutes to other pimps, and such gifted prostitutes were forced to work for receiving pimp.

f. Members of the Enterprise, acting as pimps, transported female prostitutes to various locations in San Diego County and elsewhere in the United States, including known areas of prostitution (called "tracks" or "blades"), private residences, hotels and motels that would facilitate such activity and places/events with large customer base such as professional sporting events.

h. Members of the Enterprise, acting as pimps, bottoms and coconspirators, provided logistical support for each other, including but not limited to renting motel rooms for one another, transporting prostitutes for each other, sharing computers, data, mobile internet connections, online accounts (like Craigslist.org and Backpage.com) and prepaid credit cards to post prostitution ads.
​

Seems like I may not be the only one considering this angle. ( link, h/t [ame=http://websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?p=6656340#post6656340]TheForiegner[/ame] )

Believing the bag may have contained a body, perhaps that of missing Jersey City prostitute Shannan Gilbert, two emergency workers descended into the hole to take a closer look. Gilbert's disappearance is what prompted the search at Gilgo Beach on Long Island that uncovered the work of a potential serial killer​

 

[shadowraiths]

As for MP's "flying color" statement? Polygraphs have yet to meet validity and reliability standards for both Frye (1923) and Daubert (1995). Importantly, they're inadmissible in a court of law in the state of New York.

 

[LongIslandDweller]

MP gave the interview by text? Maybe it isn't him?

 

[truthspider]

I've posted a link before to some Oak Beach aerial photos - this one is of the home just 2 doors west of Brewer's...also the home where the phone number is only 1 digit different from the CVS... and note the extended cab white truck and the boat dock/boat.

http://www.emixpix.com/New-York/Oak-Beach-NY-11702-AERIAL/7780004_swhp2#503464971_wVnED-X2-LB

The odds that the bing photo captured the sk at the site are very very small. The truck was most likely at the location after the fact as part of the investigation. So it could still be of interest to determine who was investigating the location.

This truck type may be too popular in that area to be useful. Here is a pic of a similar truck, that was parked in the oak beach parking lot this past friday around the time of the vigil. I'm attaching this image to show how common they seem to be, not to generate speculation on the owner of said vehicle.

No, I have no idea what the sticker "277 - JFK" means.

 

[dcgrumpy]

The odds that the bing photo captured the sk at the site are very very small. The truck was most likely at the location after the fact as part of the investigation. So it could still be of interest to determine who was investigating the location.

This truck type may be too popular in that area to be useful. Here is a pic of a similar truck, that was parked in the oak beach parking lot this past friday around the time of the vigil. I'm attaching this image to show how common they seem to be, not to generate speculation on the owner of said vehicle.

No, I have no idea what the sticker "277 - JFK" means.

Snowlift is the company that removes snow at JFK airport. Not sure what 277 means, maybe some kind of vehicle id number?

 

[Ashley123]

Hey all. I'm pretty new to posting here but I've been reading your helpful insights for weeks. I think I finally realized a tie between SG and the GB4, other than the obvious links of location and profession...

It seems that the killer changed up his M.O. ever so slightly after the Shannan incident, in that with the last two girls who went missing, he required them to leave their phones at home when they went out on the call. I'm thinking that the reason for this was because Shannan caused such trouble for him with the access she had to her phone (and quite possibly almost got him busted)...He didn't seem to have this requirement with the first two girls...why else would he change up his m.o??? :waitasec:

also, Shannan's words to the 911 operator of "THEY are trying to kill me" and the fact that she wouldn't run to MP for protection and help have been resonating in me...I wonder if LE asked questions on the lie detector tests to these men inquiring about their knowledge of the other girls...or if those tests had been administered before the bodies were identified...anyone know what the timeline was for the tests?

 

[MrsPC]

The odds that the bing photo captured the sk at the site are very very small. The truck was most likely at the location after the fact as part of the investigation. So it could still be of interest to determine who was investigating the location.

This truck type may be too popular in that area to be useful. Here is a pic of a similar truck, that was parked in the oak beach parking lot this past friday around the time of the vigil. I'm attaching this image to show how common they seem to be, not to generate speculation on the owner of said vehicle.

No, I have no idea what the sticker "277 - JFK" means.

I sort of posted a retraction of my post right after - as the resident does not have the phone # that's one digit different from the CVS....

sorry for the confusion

 

[MrsPC]

It seems that the killer changed up his M.O. ever so slightly after the Shannan incident, in that with the last two girls who went missing, he required them to leave their phones at home when they went out on the call. I'm thinking that the reason for this was because Shannan caused such trouble for him with the access she had to her phone (and quite possibly almost got him busted)...He didn't seem to have this requirement with the first two girls...why else would he change up his m.o??? :waitasec:

respectfully snipped

I agree 100%...and I also believes this points more toward Brewer as a suspect as well.

 

[Ashley123]

http://www.newsday.com/long-island/...ped-4-women-at-beach-1.2540757?obref=obinsite

I just re-read this from December 14th in Newsday, right after the 4 bodies had first been discovered, but before they were identified, and this section struck me as weird...

An Oak Beach man interviewed by Newsday said Gilbert spent an hour at his home in the early morning hours before she ran off. He said he contacted her through Craigslist expecting a "date" but said he was surprised when she showed up driven by a man. "I thought it was just going to be her," the man said. "And then I saw what's going on, I thought it was a little strange."

I think its strange that he expected her to come alone, no? Also, it confirms he said he contacted her through Craigslist and he additionally claims she only spent an hour there??? His inconsistencies alone are cause for deeper probing.

 

[waltzingmatilda]

http://www.newsday.com/long-island/...ped-4-women-at-beach-1.2540757?obref=obinsite

I just re-read this from December 14th in Newsday, right after the 4 bodies had first been discovered, but before they were identified, and this section struck me as weird...

An Oak Beach man interviewed by Newsday said Gilbert spent an hour at his home in the early morning hours before she ran off. He said he contacted her through Craigslist expecting a "date" but said he was surprised when she showed up driven by a man. "I thought it was just going to be her," the man said. "And then I saw what's going on, I thought it was a little strange."

I think its strange that he expected her to come alone, no? Also, it confirms he said he contacted her through Craigslist and he additionally claims she only spent an hour there??? His inconsistencies alone are cause for deeper probing.

Oooooo!!!! Great sleuthing Ashley!!!! He admits that he contacted her thru CL and also basically admits that it was a problem for him that she had a driver! WTH! why didn't we catch this earlier in the case?

Just goes to show that as time goes by, details become a bit clearer as we revisit them!

MOO wm

 

[da fino]

new here myself, and that is very interesting Ashley123.

it may have been mentioned before, but i would really like to know if JB contacted Shannan via disposable cell phone too.

 

[waltzingmatilda]

new here myself, and that is very interesting Ashley123.

it may have been mentioned before, but i would really like to know if JB contacted Shannan via disposable cell phone too.

:welcome4:

da fino, I have the same question!

Glad you joined WS! Look forward to your future posts

wm

 

[marie-chantal]

Welcome da_fino!

Ashley-that was a great find! I can't believe he made those statements. They contradict what he said earlier this spring. Didn't he clearly state that he did not "meet" Shannan via Craigslist?

And why would he have a problem with her having a driver? Very odd, and it kind of makes me think of the other victims. None of them had drivers; however, it also makes me wonder if JB was the SK, why wouldn't he just call her back another time and ask her not to bring her driver. This makes me doubt JB as our SK. It does however, make me suspect him in Shannan's disappearance.

 

[Chanler]

http://www.newsday.com/long-island/...ped-4-women-at-beach-1.2540757?obref=obinsite

I just re-read this from December 14th in Newsday, right after the 4 bodies had first been discovered, but before they were identified, and this section struck me as weird...

An Oak Beach man interviewed by Newsday said Gilbert spent an hour at his home in the early morning hours before she ran off. He said he contacted her through Craigslist expecting a "date" but said he was surprised when she showed up driven by a man. "I thought it was just going to be her," the man said. "And then I saw what's going on, I thought it was a little strange."

I think its strange that he expected her to come alone, no? Also, it confirms he said he contacted her through Craigslist and he additionally claims she only spent an hour there??? His inconsistencies alone are cause for deeper probing.

Hi, Ashley; I think that JB's expectation is not strange at all. To me, he doesn't seem like an experienced john at all. He might have worried that he was going to be shaken down by Shannan's driver. As for the time, he was generalizing, which is exactly what I would do if someone were asking me about a meeting seven months before.

 

[internetgirl101]

Some points that stuck out to me. Bolded by me.

“Some agree to talk, but they say they won’t name any neighbors who might have seen or heard something that night. ‘I’ll help you anyway I can,’ says Gus Coletti, a 76-year-old pigeon fancier who said he saw Gilbert that night. ‘Just don’t ask me to give up one of my neighbors."

IMO, something really strange is going on in that OBC. No one wants to tattle on their neighbor? Why are they scared to name names? It seems like they saw and know what happened, but they have this neighborhood pact where they have agreed to keep quiet. Isn’t THAT against the law? SPEAK UP, OAK BEACH PEOPLE!
_

“But Brewer said Gilbert asked him if he had ever hired an online escort for sex. Then, he said she asked, "Have you come across any transvestites?"

IMO, this suggests that it was the first time SG and JB met. He wasn’t a regular client of hers, which I had wondered about.
_

“Gilbert became upset, since "she saw things weren’t going as she had hoped," and acted in an "erratic" way, Brewer said. He said her driver, Michael Pak, was waiting in an SUV outside and got her into the car to take her home, he thought.
But Gilbert took off on foot down The Fairway, about an hour before dawn, according to neighbors’ accounts.”

Does this mean SG got into MP’s car and he thought he would be taking her home, but then she took off on foot? Or he thought she would get in the car?
_

“Shannan had been using the same driver, Pak, for several months, and she trusted the 41-year-old man from Queens, Diaz said.”

This is the first time I have heard where Pak is from. I’m trying so hard to find some more info on him. ANYTHING. But I keep going in circles with phone numbers/addresses/middle initials/photos. If any fellow sleuthers find anything on him, please share or PM me. TIA.
__

“At one point, he said Gilbert called on her cell phone from the house asking him to get lubricant and a deck of playing cards from a CVS. Pak said he told her he didn’t want to go because he didn’t know the area.
"When I told her this, she said she would find her own way home and hung up on me," he said.”

IMO, at first, it seemed like SG was mad about MP not going to the CVS for her. She tells him she will find her own way home. This probably ticked him off since he brought her there already and was there for at least an hour, waiting. Why did he stay until 5-6:00 if she told him to leave? Was he out there waiting for her and she didn’t expect him to be, but he wanted his money?
Then, reading the last few posts here, it made me think, maybe JB, not expecting a driver to be with her, told SG to tell MP to leave!
Hmmmm…
And locals, a little help..If MP lives in Queens, how likely is it that he doesn't "know the area" of the cvs?
__

“The Star-Ledger retraced Gilbert’s path, walking in the dark and using a color-coded map provided by a neighbor who claims to have helped local Suffolk County police with the investigation. The neighbor requested anonymity for fear of compromising the case.”

Who? CPH???!!
__

“When he asked what was wrong, Gilbert just stared at him, he said, remembering that she was wearing a light-colored tank top. He said he dialed 911 on his landline, just steps away, and told her to sit in a chair. But Gilbert bolted for the door, he said, and took off down Sandy Drive, a short, curving road that intersects The Fairway.”

SG ran down Sandy Drive? Sandy Drive doesn’t show on the google map, but I googled it and see on block?shopper that there is a Sandy Dr, but where exactly? Does anyone have a better detailed map of Oak Beach than Google that shows this road? TIA.
__

“Instead of running out of the community and toward Ocean Parkway, she turned onto a road called Anchor Way, which led her past the group mailboxes and deeper into the neighborhood, toward the water.”

So, from Sandy Drive to Anchor Way?? I don't get it.

__

“Pak said he left around 6 a.m., after searching from "pitch black to sunny dawn" and never saw the police.”

IMO, this confirms that MP never spoke or waited for the police that night. I wonder if any neighbors, maybe Gus C, could verify that MP waited that long or if he could have possibly grabbed SG and left soon after she ran from GC's house. GC supposedly waited at the gate for the police. So, he should know when MP left Oak Beach.
__

“Brewer, the john, said he didn’t realize Gilbert was missing, or that she had run through the neighborhood, until he got a call in the days after. Pak, the driver, and Diaz, the boyfriend, dialed him on a three-way call to discuss what happened.”

IMO, Brewer is lying here. I’m sure JB knew that the woman that he hired that just left his house after calling the police from his house did not just quietly get in the driver's car and go home. He knew she took off running and he must have heard her screaming. Wouldn't he want to make sure, looking out his window, or however, that they left the area after the commotion at his house? It was likely the talk of the town there the next morning too. He knew what was going on.
__

http://www.nj.com/news/index.ssf/2011/06/jersey_city_prostitute_still_m.html

 

[Ashley123]

Hi chanler- I just think the quote makes it seem like he expected her to be alone because she either told him she would be or he got that impression somehow. I mean, he went from saying he was upset bc she came with a driver to saying he was upset bc he thought she was a man...a little inconsistent in the details, if u ask me. Don't get me wrong, I don't really think JB is the SK, but I do suspect his involvement may hold a key to many unanswered questions...

 

[svpernin]

“But Brewer said Gilbert asked him if he had ever hired an online escort for sex. Then, he said she asked, "Have you come across any transvestites?"

Respectfully snipped and BBM. Great points, internetgirl. The part I bolded interests me a lot because the obvious implication is that when Gilbert asked JB if he had ever hired an escort for sex before, he said yes, otherwise the second part of the question wouldn't have been asked. That blows his whole "social networking" story out of the water (as well as earlier interviews in which he said he just invited her over for company, not for sex). He knew she was an escort and he brought her there for sex (I know we all knew this already, I'm just pointing out the obvious holes in JB's stories).

 

[marie-chantal]

Respectfully snipped and BBM. Great points, internetgirl. The part I bolded interests me a lot because the obvious implication is that when Gilbert asked JB if he had ever hired an escort for sex before, he said yes, otherwise the second part of the question wouldn't have been asked. That blows his whole "social networking" story out of the water (as well as earlier interviews in which he said he just invited her over for company, not for sex). He knew she was an escort and he brought her there for sex (I know we all knew this already, I'm just pointing out the obvious holes in JB's stories).

I thought that I had read that he was going through a divorce, or was separated from his wife at the time of SG's visit/disappearance from his house. I also thought that I read somewhere that he and his estranged wife had since reconciled/were in the process of trying to reconcile. I wonder if this could be one of the reasons for his inconsistencies and what I see as an attempt to make himself sound innocent and naive about the reasons for Shannan coming over to his house. "Awww...shucks. I just thought she liked me. I thought we were on a real date. I didn't know she was a call-girl"-type of lie to LE in an attempt to not make himself appear to be the criminal that he is (and IMO he IS a criminal-he hired a prostitute; he's a john).

 

[MrsPC]

http://www.newsday.com/long-island/...ped-4-women-at-beach-1.2540757?obref=obinsite

I just re-read this from December 14th in Newsday, right after the 4 bodies had first been discovered, but before they were identified, and this section struck me as weird...

An Oak Beach man interviewed by Newsday said Gilbert spent an hour at his home in the early morning hours before she ran off. He said he contacted her through Craigslist expecting a "date" but said he was surprised when she showed up driven by a man. "I thought it was just going to be her," the man said. "And then I saw what's going on, I thought it was a little strange."

I think its strange that he expected her to come alone, no? Also, it confirms he said he contacted her through Craigslist and he additionally claims she only spent an hour there??? His inconsistencies alone are cause for deeper probing.

this is absolutely an awesome find....I guess many of us were out of the loop on some of the articles because they require a subscription.

Thanks! for posting

and IMO this certainly puts to rest the notion that Brewer couldn't be the killer simply because Gilbert had a driver....

He didn't *know* she was having a driver bring her!

and Ashley if you can find it....I swear I recall an interview or article on Brewer where he stated he went looking for her when she ran off...