Identified! NY - Manhattan, 'Midtown Jane Doe', WhtFem 16-21, 337UFNY, under concrete, ring w/ 'P McG', Feb'03 Patricia McGlone

[Detailz]

Another thing is the location the body was found is off 46th ST and 8th Avenue in Manhattan judging from the NAMUS location provided.
8th Avenue is a known prostitution area in Manhattan until the 2000s. It's cleaned up now. But the idea she is a prostitute just because she's found there behind a wall of concrete is ludicrous. If a killer can torture, assault, dehumanizing and murder a victim and if she TRULY was a prostitute why not just leave the body in the open?
That's because she wasn't a prostitute. Prostitutes usually don't wear fancy watches or pantyhose because of occupational hazards of robbery by pimps and clients. Pantyhose would've not been worn. This female wasn't a prostitute in my opinion. That's an assumption. I believe they misprofiled the victim and the killer KNEW they would. Hence, she's unidentified. If a killer kills a prostitute would he drag her back to wear she was originally? NO.
he would just dump the body wherever. Someone worked hard to make the police believe she was just another prostitute.
I believe she's an innocent victim a regular girl.

 

[MadMcGoo]

I understand your thinking. But when you look at the scene where she was found after they sledgehammered that wall you'll see bones EVERYWHERE. Watch this video, the bones WEREN'T found neatly it was a cluster. You couldn't discriminate between bones and cement.
Here's the America's Most Wanted Episode that featured this unidentified female. Pause it and look at the rubble. It was a MESS. Not neatly tucked. Take a watch and pause it on the photos.

Thank you so much for posting this. I had not seen this episode before but had seen the photos someplace else. I couldn’t find the link though. This is a good refresher and clears some things up.

It explains how they determined the tag couldn’t have been produced before December 1987.

You’re right, the place was a mess! Mostly I had a hard time figuring out what I was even looking at. I did grab a few screenshots to save here for future reference. The tag, poison bag and bones. There are GRAPHIC images below of the skull and teeth.

 

[Detailz]

Another thing that would assist them in finding the exact year she died wasn't done.
Why didn't they analyze the extension cord?? Find the manufacturer's mark, check the Guage (thickness) of the wire and date that?
They could have.
Analyze the extension cord and the pantyhose brand. The weave of the nylon and find out where it was sold and when?
But no. They look for it to be in a tag
Or coin. The BEST evidence they have is the watch, extension cord and nylons. Because they were attached to the body.

 

[MadMcGoo]

I thought it was interesting that they sent the soil to be analyzed.

If the later time frame (closer to 1987/88) is more likely (which I still don’t know what to think), I found a couple of girls who hadn’t been mentioned before. I used Victoria’s recon, just cropped it down for side by sides.

OH - OH - Cynthia Carmack, 15, Hamilton, 26 June 1987

The Doe Network: Case File 992DFOH http://www.doenetwork.org/cases/992dfoh.html Cynthia Louise Carmack Missing since September 20, 1988 from Hamilton, Butler County, Ohio. Classification: Missing -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Vital...

www.websleuths.com

Vicki Arleen Sundgaard – The Charley Project (notice the dental work…could MTJD have had a white cap?)


MI - MI - Cassandra Elizabeth Durham, 19, Roscommon, August 1, 1987 Trying to compare her teeth.


WA - WA - Teresa Metcalf, 14, Seattle, 14 March 1988 I wish I could find a photo of her.

Christina M. Monteiro – The Charley Project I know, I know. Something about her face stands out to me. Unlikely because of her hair too.

 

[taramarie]

I understand your thinking. But when you look at the scene where she was found after they sledgehammered that wall you'll see bones EVERYWHERE. Watch this video, the bones WEREN'T found neatly it was a cluster. You couldn't discriminate between bones and cement.
Here's the America's Most Wanted Episode that featured this unidentified female. Pause it and look at the rubble. It was a MESS. Not neatly tucked. Take a watch and pause it on the photos.

Thank you for sharing this video, very informative. Now I’m really confused about the clothing label date.

 

[carbuff]

They all look possible, but:

Charley Project indicates Sundgaard's skin was sensitive to metals and she didn't wear much jewelry, so she probably wouldn't have worn a cheaper metal watch.

Durham's teeth look too regular.

Monteiro--yeah, chin and jaw are really close, as are circumstances. It wouldn't be the first case where the description of the decedent's race was wrong and Monteiro appears to be quite fair-skinned.

p.s. Looking at that skull--the decedent appears to have an extremely square chin, possibly even a cleft. The recons show a softer chin and jaw line. I wish there were other angles of the skull; I'd really like to know why the artists both made that decision.

 

[MadMcGoo]

They all look possible, but:

Charley Project indicates Sundgaard's skin was sensitive to metals and she didn't wear much jewelry, so she probably wouldn't have worn a cheaper metal watch.

Durham's teeth look too regular.

Monteiro--yeah, chin and jaw are really close, as are circumstances. It wouldn't be the first case where the description of the decedent's race was wrong and Monteiro appears to be quite fair-skinned.

p.s. Looking at that skull--the decedent appears to have an extremely square chin, possibly even a cleft. The recons show a softer chin and jaw line. I wish there were other angles of the skull; I'd really like to know why the artists both made that decision.

Thanks for the feedback!

I noticed the same thing about the skull. I wondered if maybe the image of the skull had been cleaned up around the edges at some point and it was inadvertently cropped out. It’s hard to tell from the other pics, but it is a lot more square than what the recons depict.

 

[carbuff]

Thanks for the feedback!

I noticed the same thing about the skull. I wondered if maybe the image of the skull had been cleaned up around the edges at some point and it was inadvertently cropped out. It’s hard to tell from the other pics, but it is a lot more square than what the recons depict.

That's why I'd like to see another angle. Depending on the angle of the jaw, that could make the front of the chin appear a bit more rounded.

 

[MadMcGoo]

That's why I'd like to see another angle. Depending on the angle of the jaw, that could make the front of the chin appear a bit more rounded.

Spoiler: Skull/teeth

This one isn’t of much help.

 

[taramarie]

Thank you for sharing this video, very informative. Now I’m really confused about the clothing label date.

Ok, I’ve been reading some more. I actually don’t think the number has anything to do with the date. Here’s what I’ve found, it seems as though it it actually acts as a unique code for the person who made the garment. I’ve added a screenshot of the tag from the video, a screenshot of the info I was reading, and another image of a few tags so you can look at the numbers. Based on what is said in the video, the last 2 numbers (87 in this case) signify the year of production. But if you look at other ILGWU tags, that doesn’t seem to be the case. All the vintage blogs I’ve been reading date the clothing based on the logo as it evolved through the years, not by the printed code. Hence I’m standing by the guess that the clothing tag was produced between 1963-1974.

 

[Otterly]

All of the evidence and circumstances of this case screams late 70s and early 80s. I'll be shocked if she died outside of that time period.

 

[Detailz]

Ok, I’ve been reading some more. I actually don’t think the number has anything to do with the date. Here’s what I’ve found, it seems as though it it actually acts as a unique code for the person who made the garment. I’ve added a screenshot of the tag from the video, a screenshot of the info I was reading, and another image of a few tags so you can look at the numbers. Based on what is said in the video, the last 2 numbers (87 in this case) signify the year of production. But if you look at other ILGWU tags, that doesn’t seem to be the case. All the vintage blogs I’ve been reading date the clothing based on the logo as it evolved through the years, not by the printed code. Hence I’m standing by the guess that the clothing tag was produced between 1963-1974.

Good researching!!
So her watch is a 1966 Bulova ladies watch.
Dime dates from 1969
clothing tag is date coded 1963-1974.
So that's a window of time from 1969 to 1974.
Any females that are white
Age 15-22
4'11" to 5'2"
Blonde
Missing around that time?
Another thing is the toy soldier found in the rug. Is it possible there was a child involved?
A divorce gone wrong? Missing mother?
Or a babysitter? Any stories of babysitters going missing around this time?
For this killer to go to these lengths he had privacy. I'm thinking suburbs, a cellar, a garage, or a shed. Like Long Island. A place that he PREPARED in advance. Where wire is kept, rat poison is stored etc. He was obviously good with tools, knots and wire. Possible ex-military. Looking at the screenshot of that knot I'm thinking Navy. Or access to even a boat. Why not dump the body in the East River? Perhaps because it would point back to him. To place this body that far away behind a wall is very telling. He didn't dump her body on 8th Avenue because by that time r she was ALREADY skeletonized. I think she was being searched for is why the body was held by him so long. I think this person must be a person of interest in a missing person case to go these lengths of concrete mixing. I think New York, New Jersey need to go through their "persons of interests" lists for missing females around this time. I think they've already got this jerk on a list, pull that name and they might find her name. A name that matches this female.
I'm thinking 1969-1975 for this female might be even reported missing years after this time. Reported as a runaway. Could be a college student trying to earn money as a baby sitter. Killer is them there like John Wayne Gayce and kills her.
Like what happened with Margaret Fox

 

[Mireille]

Throwing in a couple of cents on the date thing. In my last job, if you were looking for production dates, you could get an initial idea by looking at the sticker/tag on the item. Where it will say f. eg: 2217, which translates to week 22, year 2017. I think most producers have their own way of doing this. It is in place today, not sure about then. In addition to this a longer number is present which is the number of the manufacturer/factory that produced it, who has a numerical code in the system. The length of this will likely vary by company. But most have 5-6 numbers, which fits with this.

So when the poster above pointed that out, I do think it is very likely a manufacturing number, which speaks to who produced it, rather than when. Unless they at some point changed their number system to reflect the year somehow.

Edit to add:
More on the logo front, this the logo they show in the episode

Another

Not great quality I realize. Down below I am placing logos from ILWU
This is from 1964 to 1973

This here is from 1974 to 1995


One had colour and the other didn't.
I do not know if the colour was lost due to time (but I think red would have faded more)
Sources for logo info; this vintage blog: A Guide to Identifying ILGWU Union Labels in Vintage Clothing

In my my own opinion, this has probably never had red on it. Only blue, so it is likely from between 1964 to 1973.

 

[Ajaygee11]

This has been posted before many years ago, but I’m still unclear why investigators say the clothing tag was produced in or after 1988.

I’ve attached an image of the clothing tag photo included on the doe network page. The photo shows the back of the International Ladies Garment Workers Union tag, which has a different logo - The National Coat and Suit Industry Recovery Board. The label with both of these logos (ILGWU on front, National Coat and Suit Industry Recovery Board on back) wasn’t introduced until 1960. From what I can find, this exact iteration of the logo shown in the image was produced from 1963-1974.

Union Made — Slow Notion

This coat bears the history of organized labor initiated by women in the garment industry on one tiny tag. Editorial resident Iris Aguilar thrifted the garment, and Vintage Detective Alex Stevens digs into its connections to the American labor movement.

theslownotion.com

ILGWU web site - Collection Guides Records

Guide to the National Coat & Suit Industry Recovery Board records, 1918-1953

So here are the associated dates for this UID:
-1966 Bulova watch
-dime from either 1968 or 1969
-clothing tag produced between 1963-1974
-a brand of rat poison not marketed until 1979

Assuming all of these items are related (which, who really knows), then we’d be looking for a female who went missing in 1979 or later, not 1988 or later. Thoughts?

Good research

 

[Detailz]

One of the only people that match our unidentified Charlotte Jean Loomis

The National Missing and Unidentified Persons System (NamUs)

By bringing people, information, forensic science and technology together, NamUs helps resolve cases.

www.namus.gov

Charlotte Loomis was from Michigan, 14 years old, blonde haired and visiting her sister. She was visiting her sister's home in New Jersey on a "MILITARY base" (knots flashback )
She was flying out alone back to Michigan.
Her baggage arrived in Michigan, but SHE never did. I wonder if they interrogated the brother in law? No military man is going to notice a blonde haired girl in a military base.
NO WAY.
Who checked in the luggage? Could a14 year old that small even carry the luggage?Her sister wasn't around at the time. How curious... she must've been busy
By the way, the Newark International Airport is 17 min from where this unidentified female was found 46th st and 8th Avenue area.
Now I'm thinking about the LITTLE ARMY MAN toy soldier found in the rug.
Coincidence? Or placed there on purpose for that reason?? Was there an affair? There's very little known about her. Like nobody is looking for her.
Blonde.
5ft 2 in tall
14 years old.
Visited an ARMY BASE
ARMY MAN TOY FIGURE in the rug of this unidentified female.
I've submitted her for comparison via the Doe Network
Images are facial comparison and the distance on map from the Newark International Airport to where the body was found

 

[Mireille]

That is damn close if that's the address. Holy....

 

[Detailz]

Interesting article online regarding Charlotte Loomis.
Down the rabbit hole we go.

Arrival Unknown: The Disappearance of Charlotte Loomis

Robin Warder, creator of The Trail Went Cold, on a bizarre disappearance that is surrounded by many questions and few known facts.

investigationsforthemissing.org

And this article online ad well. There's quite a bit of skepticism that sometimes happened to her there in Fort Monmouth, New Jersey.

Charlotte Loomis

Charlotte Jean Loomis, age 14, went missing from Eatontown, New Jersey on September 1, 1972. Charlotte was having problems at her family home in Oscoda, Michigan, where she lived with her mother, s…

whereaboutsstillunknown.wordpress.com

Could Charlotte Loomis be that unidentified female. MTJD?

 

[Mireille]

Interesting article online regarding Charlotte Loomis.
Down the rabbit hole we go.

Arrival Unknown: The Disappearance of Charlotte Loomis

Robin Warder, creator of The Trail Went Cold, on a bizarre disappearance that is surrounded by many questions and few known facts.

investigationsforthemissing.org

And this article online ad well. There's quite a bit of skepticism that sometimes happened to her there in Fort Monmouth, New Jersey.

Charlotte Loomis

Charlotte Jean Loomis, age 14, went missing from Eatontown, New Jersey on September 1, 1972. Charlotte was having problems at her family home in Oscoda, Michigan, where she lived with her mother, s…

whereaboutsstillunknown.wordpress.com

Could Charlotte Loomis be that unidentified female. MTJD?

Honestly, unless she is already ruled out, I'd submit it just on the proximity and fitting the overall ranges that they are after. According to DoeNetwork, there is no fingerprints or dentals available, but there is DNA.

1206DFNJ - Charlotte Jean Loomis

 

[MadMcGoo]

So, 1964-1973. Where the heck was she being kept before being buried in the concrete? Which I’m assuming, based on the description, was closer to the discovery date. Several decades later.

 

[Mireille]

So, 1964-1973. Where the heck was she being kept before being buried in the concrete? Which I’m assuming, based on the description, was closer to the discovery date. Several decades later.

Well, it just means the crime likely between 1969 and maybe 1979. I am unsure where they found that piece of ratposison stuff but she was found in a basement.... Which likely could have needed rat poison? They keep referring to soil in the rug, but honestly it looked like a mess there so it is hard to tell. Plenty of young women missing in the nearby area as well between 1969 and early 1983 f. Eg. So basically I think we believe something similar.

That late 80s and up is too late a date for this doe.

I do wonder if she was buried somewhere, but the killer had to move her and decided this was a good idea. Perhaps he used the rug more as a bag due to her being hogtied, buried it somewhere. The had to dig her up and encase her in concrete do she would not be discovered. Thought that placing her in an old location known for prostition would make it harder to track. It is a lot of work and effort that went into hiding her.