I think you're right about the height and pants length. So 5' to 5'2" is probably what we're looking for. Interesting that the race tracks are close by. I was thinking perhaps a Filipino nationality, they're usually not real tall people. And for sure, why wasn't the watch taken? Any jockeys go missing back then? Surely, that would have been in the news huh?
NY NY - Plainview, Wht/HispMale 23-57, UP140, Members Only jacket, Bulova watch, hair pick, Mar'04
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Well, I went to the Jockey's Guild website,and found another jockey site, and I considered sending them the info about this guy with that new photo. I don't know if they'd be interested in finding a way to get the info out, but it might be worth a try. It's such a transient lifestyle that I'd think it would be very easy for someone to go missing and no one would care much or notice, or think much of it.
The NAMUS info said that he'd had anemia at some point based on his bones, and jockeys are often anorexic to keep their racing weight. Some jocks aren't full grown yet when they start working, so if the anemia was from youth, it could be a retired or aging jockey.
dreamweaver
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http://www.wpix.com/news/wpix-skeleton-found-parkway,0,7398895.story
Another news article with slightly different information.
NEW YORK (WPIX) - New York State Police are trying to identify skeletal remains discovered along the Northern State Parkway, that investigators believe had been there for over 20 years.
The remains, which were found east of Sunnyside Blvd. in Plainview, were initially found in March 2004 after a motorist lost control of her vehicle and drove into the wooded area, discovering the skeleton, officials said.
An investigation later determined that the bones were those of a white male, approximately 35-45 years of age, between 4'11" and 5'4" with a 26-inch waist.
According to officials, the man's clothing led investigators to determine what era he may have died in. The male was wearing a red members only waist length jacket imported into the United States in the spring of 1982. He also sported tan pleated canvass bell bottom pants, a button down white shirt with an orange and blue striped pattern and a 1960 gold Bulova watch.
With the help of forensic facial reconstruction, investigators were able to recreate the victim's face using measurements from his skull. Anyone with information as to the identity of the unidentified male is urged to contact the New York State Police Major Crimes Unit at 631-756-3390. All calls will be kept confidential.
I found this article by googling tan pleated bell bottom pants.
I find this articl ehelpful since it says :
age 35 - 45
height 4'11" to 5'4"
Bulova watch from 1960.
26 inch waist.
I think it gives us more to go on.
Another news article with slightly different information.
NEW YORK (WPIX) - New York State Police are trying to identify skeletal remains discovered along the Northern State Parkway, that investigators believe had been there for over 20 years.
The remains, which were found east of Sunnyside Blvd. in Plainview, were initially found in March 2004 after a motorist lost control of her vehicle and drove into the wooded area, discovering the skeleton, officials said.
An investigation later determined that the bones were those of a white male, approximately 35-45 years of age, between 4'11" and 5'4" with a 26-inch waist.
According to officials, the man's clothing led investigators to determine what era he may have died in. The male was wearing a red members only waist length jacket imported into the United States in the spring of 1982. He also sported tan pleated canvass bell bottom pants, a button down white shirt with an orange and blue striped pattern and a 1960 gold Bulova watch.
With the help of forensic facial reconstruction, investigators were able to recreate the victim's face using measurements from his skull. Anyone with information as to the identity of the unidentified male is urged to contact the New York State Police Major Crimes Unit at 631-756-3390. All calls will be kept confidential.
I found this article by googling tan pleated bell bottom pants.
I find this articl ehelpful since it says :
age 35 - 45
height 4'11" to 5'4"
Bulova watch from 1960.
26 inch waist.
I think it gives us more to go on.
dreamweaver
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http://www.newsday.com/long-island/nassau/officials-reconstruct-dead-man-s-face-1.1603850
Five years after the bones were found, a face has emerged.
Using anthropological techniques and forensic technology, New York State Police released Wednesday a digital rendering of the face of the man whose remains were found near the Northern State Parkway in March 2004. A woman who drove into the woods near the Sunnyside Boulevard exit after a minor accident found the skeletal remains, investigators said.
"We haven't had any leads yet," said senior investigator John Lang of the State Police.
Forensic evidence shows the remains belong to a white male between the ages of 35 and 45, about 4'11" to 5'4", with a thin build. He may have been dead between 10 and 22 years by the time he was found, police said.
He was wearing a red Members Only waist length jacket imported into the USA in the spring of 1982, tan pleated canvas bell bottom pants, a button-down white shirt with an orange and blue striped pattern and a 1960 gold Bulova watch, police said.
Herb Buckley, the director of forensic imaging for the State Police who worked on the facial construction, said the first step is to determine what the person would have looked like alive.
"First you have to have a anthropological report from a board-certified anthropologist to get the gender, approximate age, approximate weight, approximate size and state of health of the person," Buckley said by phone from Binghamton.
Then, facial anchor points provide the canvas for bringing the elements together.
"On the face there are 32 anchor points which are the same on children, adults, male or female. They're the same no matter where you are working on the skull - it's universal," Bu
Once the data and the evidence are matched together, Buckley said, "then it becomes my job to envision a face."
The technology to compose such a highly detailed face is fairly new, Buckley said. "As far as computer generated imaging goes, it's only been in the last 10 years that we've advanced to this point."
The facial construction for this case took five years in part because the police are investigating it as a cold case, Lang said.
"So as soon as we got everything shored up and we were able to work the leads, we put this stuff out," he said. "It's basically being handled as a cold case and kind of a back-burner case."
Anyone with information can call 631-756-3390.
Slightly different detail in this article.
Dead between 10 - 22 years when found...
Time to do a post listing all the variants.
Five years after the bones were found, a face has emerged.
Using anthropological techniques and forensic technology, New York State Police released Wednesday a digital rendering of the face of the man whose remains were found near the Northern State Parkway in March 2004. A woman who drove into the woods near the Sunnyside Boulevard exit after a minor accident found the skeletal remains, investigators said.
"We haven't had any leads yet," said senior investigator John Lang of the State Police.
Forensic evidence shows the remains belong to a white male between the ages of 35 and 45, about 4'11" to 5'4", with a thin build. He may have been dead between 10 and 22 years by the time he was found, police said.
He was wearing a red Members Only waist length jacket imported into the USA in the spring of 1982, tan pleated canvas bell bottom pants, a button-down white shirt with an orange and blue striped pattern and a 1960 gold Bulova watch, police said.
Herb Buckley, the director of forensic imaging for the State Police who worked on the facial construction, said the first step is to determine what the person would have looked like alive.
"First you have to have a anthropological report from a board-certified anthropologist to get the gender, approximate age, approximate weight, approximate size and state of health of the person," Buckley said by phone from Binghamton.
Then, facial anchor points provide the canvas for bringing the elements together.
"On the face there are 32 anchor points which are the same on children, adults, male or female. They're the same no matter where you are working on the skull - it's universal," Bu
Once the data and the evidence are matched together, Buckley said, "then it becomes my job to envision a face."
The technology to compose such a highly detailed face is fairly new, Buckley said. "As far as computer generated imaging goes, it's only been in the last 10 years that we've advanced to this point."
The facial construction for this case took five years in part because the police are investigating it as a cold case, Lang said.
"So as soon as we got everything shored up and we were able to work the leads, we put this stuff out," he said. "It's basically being handled as a cold case and kind of a back-burner case."
Anyone with information can call 631-756-3390.
Slightly different detail in this article.
Dead between 10 - 22 years when found...
Time to do a post listing all the variants.
Was just rereading your comment again, BL, and thinking that the people who came up with the reconstruction photo should show the face with curly or kinky hair, longish, because of that comb/pick. Wonder who's in charge of that photo? Hmmm.
Heading along the jockey possibility, the only one I could find missing from back then is a one Jimmy Kratz, who went missing in 1973. However, there is an article saying bones were found "POSSIBLY" being his. I can't find anything saying that was ever confirmed or not. Maybe someone else can?
http://news.google.com/newspapers?n...1UNAAAAIBAJ&sjid=1G4DAAAAIBAJ&pg=2424,3858166
http://news.google.com/newspapers?n...1UNAAAAIBAJ&sjid=1G4DAAAAIBAJ&pg=2424,3858166
I found James Kratz in the SSDI, listed as died in July 1973 and social security card issued in WV, so he was identified, unless people get declared dead after a certain point. But the dates are too old for our guy. Great find, BL! I didn't know about Google Newspapers, there's a new vortex to get sucked into!
I thought that article was interesting, though, in how it described the bones of riders having specific traits. I wonder if that kind of work has been done on the John Doe's bones?
bbm
I was wondering the same thing when I read that. There's also stable boys and part time warm-up jockeys or whatever they call them, who might be aspiring jockeys who would fit the physical characteristics.
(PS I agree with you in that the photo's hair should probably be more of an afro style, with the hair pick found and all, do you think that qualifies as a possible tip?)
Shane's Sister
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Just wanted to post a couple things that came to mind concerning this John Doe...when I first spotted him on Doe Network the other day,
http://www.doenetwork.org/cases/1341umny.html
the first thing that came to my mind was that he was possibly Italian. That maybe this was a mob hit, and the body was dumped where it was found. The fact that he was wearing a $600 Bulova watch with an alligator wristband that was left with him I think indicates that this was foul play and personal, and that he was probably not someone who was hit trying to hitch a ride. Do you guys know if there is anything anywhere that states exactly how he died? Did I miss something somewhere?
Also, as an aside, there were alot of people with straight or lightly wavy/curly hair in the 80's that used hair pics to achieve that awesome feathered look that was so popular then. Not that I'd know anything about that, though
http://www.doenetwork.org/cases/1341umny.html
the first thing that came to my mind was that he was possibly Italian. That maybe this was a mob hit, and the body was dumped where it was found. The fact that he was wearing a $600 Bulova watch with an alligator wristband that was left with him I think indicates that this was foul play and personal, and that he was probably not someone who was hit trying to hitch a ride. Do you guys know if there is anything anywhere that states exactly how he died? Did I miss something somewhere?
Also, as an aside, there were alot of people with straight or lightly wavy/curly hair in the 80's that used hair pics to achieve that awesome feathered look that was so popular then. Not that I'd know anything about that, though
I haven't seen anything that says how he died, and the NAMUS site seems to be the most complete. It says that he is Hispanic white, so maybe that rules out Italian. No reason it couldn't be a Mafia hit, though. Maybe he was a bookie or drug dealer, Mafia target.
Good point about the hair. Obviously none of the bones found have any bullet damage, tho he could've been killed with piano wire or something.
That $600 watch mystifies me, why, if he was murdered, it wasn't taken. He also had paper money in his wallet, tho they didn't say how much. The other thing is that NAMUS said his wallet was plastic.... kind of at odds with the fancy watch.
I wish there was a way to contact the detectives that wasn't a tip line to give them our brilliant insights. Any thoughts, from you more experienced sleuthers, on this? In particular, asking them to post a picture with curly hair, and asking them if they've looked at the bones to see if he could have been a rider. Also asking them to contact Jockeys Guild and racetracks, and look for records of abandoned cars. Somehow I don't think he was a US citizen.
The other thing, I am not sure if he was really buried, or if he was just laying there.... tho if he was out in the open I reckon animals would have scattered his remains.
Good point about the hair. Obviously none of the bones found have any bullet damage, tho he could've been killed with piano wire or something.
That $600 watch mystifies me, why, if he was murdered, it wasn't taken. He also had paper money in his wallet, tho they didn't say how much. The other thing is that NAMUS said his wallet was plastic.... kind of at odds with the fancy watch.
I wish there was a way to contact the detectives that wasn't a tip line to give them our brilliant insights. Any thoughts, from you more experienced sleuthers, on this? In particular, asking them to post a picture with curly hair, and asking them if they've looked at the bones to see if he could have been a rider. Also asking them to contact Jockeys Guild and racetracks, and look for records of abandoned cars. Somehow I don't think he was a US citizen.
The other thing, I am not sure if he was really buried, or if he was just laying there.... tho if he was out in the open I reckon animals would have scattered his remains.
forgivemenot
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I looked into this case after getting that familiar feeling upon seeing the reconstruction image.
Now I know why. I believe it is based on this mugshot of Steve-O
Here is a side by side comparison that I made:
Compare the shadows, nostrils, philtrum, chin, mandible etc.
I was quite taken aback by it, so I commented on the website where I first saw the image.
My comment was never published, nor was the follow-up I posted a week later.
In response, however, the blog owner did publish a comment to me. You can read it here :
http://canyouidentifyme.blogspot.com/2011/04/eric-doe-its-my-time.html
What do you think? Is it ethical to use a living persons' photo to help identify the deceased?
Is it just me or is this really weird?
Now I know why. I believe it is based on this mugshot of Steve-O
Here is a side by side comparison that I made:
Compare the shadows, nostrils, philtrum, chin, mandible etc.
I was quite taken aback by it, so I commented on the website where I first saw the image.
My comment was never published, nor was the follow-up I posted a week later.
In response, however, the blog owner did publish a comment to me. You can read it here :
http://canyouidentifyme.blogspot.com/2011/04/eric-doe-its-my-time.html
What do you think? Is it ethical to use a living persons' photo to help identify the deceased?
Is it just me or is this really weird?
I looked into this case after getting that familiar feeling upon seeing the reconstruction image.
Now I know why. I believe it is based on this mugshot of Steve-O
Here is a side by side comparison that I made:
Compare the shadows, nostrils, philtrum, chin, mandible etc.
I was quite taken aback by it, so I commented on the website where I first saw the image.
My comment was never published, nor was the follow-up I posted a week later.
In response, however, the blog owner did publish a comment to me. You can read it here :
http://canyouidentifyme.blogspot.com/2011/04/eric-doe-its-my-time.html
What do you think? Is it ethical to use a living persons' photo to help identify the deceased?
Is it just me or is this really weird?
call me an evil person but I burst out laughing when I saw the two pics. it would not surprise me at all if the sketch of the deceased were not influenced by Steve-O.
not that I have any idea how tall Steve-O is or why they would choose him but the similarities are too many to be coincidence in my book.
bodhi93
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Just wondering about this... does anyone else see a resemblance... it's not as close as the steve-o comparison, but I think it looks similar...
This is the only picture I could find of him... His name is/was Peter Winston... Here's a quote from wikipedia:
I know he disappeared before the jackets were available here, but maybe it was a gift from someone (as with the watch)...
Also, maybe the watch was his father's. According to this fellow (link) who was friends with Peter, his father passed when Peter was about 7-8 yrs old.
And the coins in his pocket could represent the year he shared first prize in the championship...
Just some thoughts...
This is the only picture I could find of him... His name is/was Peter Winston... Here's a quote from wikipedia:I know he disappeared before the jackets were available here, but maybe it was a gift from someone (as with the watch)...
Also, maybe the watch was his father's. According to this fellow (link) who was friends with Peter, his father passed when Peter was about 7-8 yrs old.
And the coins in his pocket could represent the year he shared first prize in the championship...
Just some thoughts...
Wanting2Help
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Bump...
There are only 2 rule outs for this John Doe.
Carlo Pfaff 1944 South Carolina
Jimmy Rogers 1965 Georgia
https://identifyus.org/en/cases/140
There are only 2 rule outs for this John Doe.
Carlo Pfaff 1944 South Carolina
Jimmy Rogers 1965 Georgia
https://identifyus.org/en/cases/140
Wanting2Help
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By strange coincidence I logged into an email account I rarely use, and found that this thread I'd subscribed to was "bumped" a few days ago. I looked at this post about Peter Winston and did some searching to find out more.
I think that this has an excellent chance of being a match. There are a few articles about him, but this one has the most information that connects him to this area: http://observer.com/2012/07/the-mysterious-disappearance-of-peter-winston/?show=all His behavior was erratic at the time he vanished in the winter of '78.
In the article it says that a few weeks before he disappeared he talked a friend into going out to the Meadowlands where he gambled as his friend watched, and whom eventually left him there, as his behavior was "off". The body was found near Aqueduct which was having their winter meet at the time of his disappearance. From the article above:
"THE MORNING AFTER his ill-fated trip to the Meadowlands, Peter responded to his sister’s ultimatum by running from her apartment, screaming as he tore down the stairs. He had no identification with him. He went to the home of an unidentified friend, someone from outside the chess world. The friend was at home with his family, and they invited Peter for lunch. As the meal went on, they grew increasingly worried by Peter’s demeanor. He was disheveled, his long curly hair even more unruly than usual. He was muttering something about going to Texas to see Walter Korn, author of the chess bible Modern Chess Openings, and said Korn “was God.” His friend’s parents were so disturbed by Peter’s comments they called his mother, according to Mr. Polowan.
Winston left not long after. No one ever saw him again.
Days, even hours later, the city was socked with the epic snowstorm now immortalized as the Blizzard of 1978."
His best friend's home was on Long Island, The body was found on Long Island so he could have been heading there. The friend was the "Mr. Polowan" mentioned above.
Aqueduct's winter meet was on at the time, and is not far from where the body was found... possibly he was going to or coming from the track/gambling.
He is described as being "slight". He looks like the reconstruction, and has long curly hair. Re; Members Only Jackets, I did more research and they were around in 1975.
There is no NAMUS or Charley Project page for Peter Jonathan Winston, though there are various articles about him if you google him. There is a small Peter Winston thread here on websleuths, and by eerie coincidence, someone posted in it a few days ago after a long time.
Attachments
I like the analysis but I have my doubts about this being Peter Winston.
the clothing would have been far more deteriorated had this body been laying there since January 1978. I realize the coins are both old (being minted in 1974), they do not give the details of how old the paper money was that he was carrying.
also the deceased was awfully short for a full adult white male. his pants were listed as being a 26" inseam and a 27" waist. they speculate that he may have been Hispanic and at a height like that, he could well have been.
the clothing would have been far more deteriorated had this body been laying there since January 1978. I realize the coins are both old (being minted in 1974), they do not give the details of how old the paper money was that he was carrying.
also the deceased was awfully short for a full adult white male. his pants were listed as being a 26" inseam and a 27" waist. they speculate that he may have been Hispanic and at a height like that, he could well have been.
I wish that there was more info about Peter W's height; articles keep describing him as slight, and imply that he is small, but no specifics. I think that the namus site says 5'2" to 5'4". His parents are both dead, but his sister is still alive. I think I just want it to be him for some reason! I haven't been on WS for some time, but this case has always haunted me.
If you haven't yet, read the article; it's interesting.
If you haven't yet, read the article; it's interesting.
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