NY NY - Sylvia Lwowski, 22, Staten Island, 6 Sept 1975 - #4

[Jmoose]

I just checked (again) the Social Security Death Index to see if Sylvia is listed, and she is not. That means, I think, that either her brother still has not applied to have her declared dead, or that she didn't have a social security number. At that time, you didn't have to have a SS number as a baby in order to be listed as a dependent on your parents' tax return. But I think I got mine when I wanted to get my driver's license, which I believe she had. And of course, you'd need one in order to work a job that wasn't off the books. So I am sure she had one. My question is, why wouldn't she have been considered deceased by now? Anybody have any ideas? Would the police have waved her brother off of this action? Would they even have any say in it? And is there a good reason not to?

 

[rosemadderlake]

Found myself at the U.S. Archives where there are many photographs documenting America and our pollution problem in the early ‘70’s. At this particular link there are old photos of Staten Island, and the neighborhood at Great Kills.

Wondering if Sylvia’s marine biology interests ever took her to Sandy Hook? It seems it was a relatively untouched and protected place back then. There are pictures of young students with marine specimens at Sandy Hook...

Arthur Tress' photographs of the general New York Harbor area, including Staten Island, include some of the most startling images of unchecked pollution and environmental decay in and around urban areas during the early 1970s.

https://www.flickr.com/photos/usnationalarchives/albums/72157622319483934/page1

Also, here is the link to the collection of Documerica in the early '70.s. There are a couple other albums, some great pics of the SI Ferry travel life, NYC neighborhoods, etc. --The NY I grew up visiting.
https://www.flickr.com/photos/usnationalarchives/collections/72157620729903309/

 

[alexwood]

I am on a mini-roll, Jmoose! --Wondering when the penny will drop for Sylvia. Trying to refresh the memories of those who knew her. Sometimes I think there are some of her college peeps who follow this thread but can't speak out for what ever reason, you know?

In reading about the Utah case, there are some parallels which speak to known details of jealousy and then the disappearance of that woman in 1988.

This has never been off the table, silently, even though naming it is off the table on this thread, but these are the kind of details of someone Sylvia may have known either intimately, or not that well... And, not only was Sylvia never found but neither were any of her possessions.

--Jealous rage, robbery, assault, vendetta (though I can't really see that), accident and cover up; how many scenarios could have happened to her? Either by someone she knew, or didn't know?

I seem to recall that her glasses were left with the fiance. Is that right?

 

[Jmoose]

I seem to recall that her glasses were left with the fiance. Is that right?

I don't think we know exactly where they ended up-but the fiance himself said she threw them and bolted from the car, so they were with him after she got out of the car. I wish we knew if the police ended up with them

 

[Dushi]

:seeya:

 

[rosemadderlake]

I seem to recall that her glasses were left with the fiance. Is that right?

'Glasses thrown against the dashboard in a fight with her fiance.' --We don't know if she took them with her, or the fiance still has them, or perhaps LE has them in evidence... They were never returned to her family. That we do know.

Her purse, clothing, and engagement ring are, as far as we know, missing with Sylvia.

 

[rosemadderlake]

I don't think we know exactly where they ended up-but the fiance himself said she threw them and bolted from the car, so they were with him after she got out of the car. I wish we knew if the police ended up with them

Remembering our whole thread devoted to those glasses!! But isn't it true that we don't know who has them because they were not returned to her family? For all I know she could have thrown her ring against the dashboard and the glasses which always sounded improbable, (who does that?) was the first thing that came to mind in a panic?

 

[Jmoose]

Remembering our whole thread devoted to those glasses!! But isn't it true that we don't know who has them because they were not returned to her family? For all I know she could have thrown her ring against the dashboard and the glasses which always sounded improbable, (who does that?) was the first thing that came to mind in a panic?

I can definitely see throwing that ring...but not the glasses! We don't know where they ended up, but if they ended up in the evidence storage in NYC, they may have been tossed out; according to The Restless Sleep, much of that old evidence from cold cases no longer exists.

 

[Jmoose]

I keep wondering if Sylvia could be buried in the cemetery at Hart Island. Suppose she WAS suicidal on the night when she disappeared, and DIDN'T manage to hide herself. Suppose that someone found her, and stole her purse with her identification inside. I can imagine that, with the crime rate being what it was in 1970's New York, that she may have never been connected with the missing person reported by her parents...this did happen, and is why some of the people interred at Hart Island are unidentified, rather than indigent. This is where I go when trying to figure out why she hasn't been found and identified yet, assuming she is dead (I don't believe she's been alive somewhere all this time). The only other alternative for me is that she was murdered, and her body is permanently gone. I don't think Staten Island is so big and remote that the authorities just haven't found her yet-I believe that she was either intentionally hidden, or accidently, because she wasn't correctly identified in 1975.

 

[rosemadderlake]

Wow, if Sylvia was found without ID due to a suicide, and LE missed matching it to a newly filed missing person's report, that would really be beyond tragic.--But, wouldn't an unidentified body (suicide or murder) make the news? Did the Lwowskis have a TV? Many did not back then. Or, wouldn't it be a story in the SI Advance? -Local radio? -Or, NY Times?

If she was found unidentified years later I can see that she might have slipped through the cracks. But somehow, if it was a news story would it have slipped by her circle's antennae?

Does the CC Squad pursue archival news? I mean, I imagine you would really have to spend some serious time in the archives. And I wonder how many unsolved missing and unidentified cases are there in NY?

Jmoose, got a flood of Q's after reading your post...

 

[rosemadderlake]

I wonder what the protocol is when they find bones in the five boroughs? Are they examined by MEs in that borough or brought into Manhattan to a dedicated ME?

 

[Jmoose]

Wow, if Sylvia was found without ID due to a suicide, and LE missed matching it to a newly filed missing person's report, that would really be beyond tragic.--But, wouldn't an unidentified body (suicide or murder) make the news? Did the Lwowskis have a TV? Many did not back then. Or, wouldn't it be a story in the SI Advance? -Local radio? -Or, NY Times?

If she was found unidentified years later I can see that she might have slipped through the cracks. But somehow, if it was a news story would it have slipped by her circle's antennae?

Does the CC Squad pursue archival news? I mean, I imagine you would really have to spend some serious time in the archives. And I wonder how many unsolved missing and unidentified cases are there in NY?

Jmoose, got a flood of Q's after reading your post...

I hesitated about my last post, because it really seemed like it may be stupid to assume that Sylvia could have been found following a suicide and yet not matched up to the missing person report, but it has to be considered as a possibility, as unlikely as it may seem. Crime in 1970's NYC was so rampant and so violent, that I don't think anyone really had the time to think about a missing, "depressed" young woman who supposedly took off on her own steam. Add to that, the occasional lazy cop who may have not wanted to bother looking to see if the body might match a woman for whom there could be a police report. We talked a while back about the crime in the 70's (neighborhoods being burned out, FALN bombings, etc). I personally don't think she committed suicide, but it is a possibility, and if she did, well, where the hell is she? Could she be in the ocean? Possibly...and could she be buried in the cemetery at Hart Island? Yes, I do think she could be. My money is on Sylvia being buried somewhere else, but what frustrates me is that if she was interred there without her family's knowlege, I don't think there is any way that her brother can ever know.

As far as the archives-all I know is what Stacey Horn (The Restless Sleep) told me; she said that the cold case detectives spent a lot of time on her case, and that could include pursuing archival news, I would guess.

 

[Jmoose]

I wonder what the protocol is when they find bones in the five boroughs? Are they examined by MEs in that borough or brought into Manhattan to a dedicated ME?

I am not sure of the protocol; it would make sense to me that there would be a central location, probably in Manhattan, where skeletal remains might be taken

 

[rosemadderlake]

I hesitated about my last post, because it really seemed like it may be stupid to assume that Sylvia could have been found following a suicide and yet not matched up to the missing person report, but it has to be considered as a possibility, as unlikely as it may seem. Crime in 1970's NYC was so rampant and so violent, that I don't think anyone really had the time to think about a missing, "depressed" young woman who supposedly took off on her own steam. Add to that, the occasional lazy cop who may have not wanted to bother looking to see if the body might match a woman for whom there could be a police report. We talked a while back about the crime in the 70's (neighborhoods being burned out, FALN bombings, etc). I personally don't think she committed suicide, but it is a possibility, and if she did, well, where the hell is she? Could she be in the ocean? Possibly...and could she be buried in the cemetery at Hart Island? Yes, I do think she could be. My money is on Sylvia being buried somewhere else, but what frustrates me is that if she was interred there without her family's knowlege, I don't think there is any way that her brother can ever know.

As far as the archives-all I know is what Stacey Horn (The Restless Sleep) told me; she said that the cold case detectives spent a lot of time on her case, and that could include pursuing archival news, I would guess.

Well, we don't really know, other than the surface of events and perhaps a clue on the PR, about Sylvia's mental state. Depressed on the police report could have been the surface description of a diagnosis of something her family just didn't want publicized (or discussed on WS). It's possible. And, EL's seeming denial, thinking SL was around could be indicative of something, I am not sure what, though.

I think this article was posted before but wow, if there are upwards of 1,000 unidentified found in the waterways since the '90's, what about before the '90's? SI is an island, so water is a real possibility.

An unidentified body has a month or so in the morgue before being interred.

Unearthing Remains in Potter's Field to Give Names Back to the Nameless NY Times 2012

..."Some 980 bodies have been found in the city, or its waterways, since 1990 whose identities have never been determined. After a month or more in one of the city’s morgues, the unidentified victims are generally sent to be buried in the same trench graves on Hart Island as the indigents."

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/08/09/n...ns-old-cases-and-graves-to-identify-dead.html

 

[alexwood]

'Glasses thrown against the dashboard in a fight with her fiance.' --We don't know if she took them with her, or the fiance still has them, or perhaps LE has them in evidence... They were never returned to her family. That we do know.

Her purse, clothing, and engagement ring are, as far as we know, missing with Sylvia.

I doubt she broke her own glasses by throwing them against the dashboard of his vehicle. More likely, her glasses were broken due to a struggle or some type of physical trauma.

Now, I CAN fathom that she would THROW her engagement ring against the dashboard of the vehicle.

And with the hostile attitude of the fiance after her alleged disappearance, yeah . . . NOT the norm.

 

[bessie]

Please continue at Thread #5.

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sh...nd-6-September-1975-5&p=13422260#post13422260