NY NY - Sylvia Lwowski, 22, Staten Island, 6 Sept 1975 - #4

[epiphany]

Those of us who remained behind...we all told BF we had no idea where she was. She'd pop up again. Sounds insane now. Doesn't it? And it wasn't as if she had done anything like that before. She hadn't.

The times were very different then. I can still see BF walking up and down the hill looking more frantic and in a panic as two or so days passed.

 

[epiphany]

My GF was around, of course; MMQC's BFF isn't.

We were all NYers and/or tri-state area. Same time period though.

 

[epiphany]

I'm not sure what I'm trying to get at...don't some of us share pieces of ourselves with some, but not others?

My GFs own roommates had no idea where she might be, but I did.

 

[Jmoose]

Just out of curiousity, Epiphany, how long was your friend "laying low"?

 

[rosemadderlake]

After EL and MMQC made initial contact at the sorority dorm the following day, I wonder if any or some the guests at the pool party were contacted specifically? And, if no one in the dorm was recognized from the pool party, I wonder when SL's guests actually found out she was missing...

 

[GoingByMyGut]

After EL and MMQC made initial contact at the sorority dorm the following day, I wonder if any or some the guests at the pool party were contacted specifically? And, if no one in the dorm was recognized from the pool party, I wonder when SL's guests actually found out she was missing...

That's a good question, Rose. I have always thought of them as fellow grads, but I guess some could have been younger and still at the dorm. And I guess the fact that any fellow grads were around for a Labor Day party means they lived on the island and were starting their post-college lives there. I suppose they would be interconnected enough to "hear." But if they weren't close to Sylvia -- if she was as quiet as MMQC says and was known more, say, as the BF/F's GF than for who she was -- I wonder what they could even do with that info when they heard?

And what "version" of the story did they hear? That "he had given her a very expensive ring and she takes off"? Or that her family couldn't imagine where she had gone or why, and was worried sick about her? We can't be sure, but I don't think anyone was thinking foul play at the time.

 

[GoingByMyGut]

I'm not sure what I'm trying to get at...don't some of us share pieces of ourselves with some, but not others?

My GFs own roommates had no idea where she might be, but I did.

Where had she gone, Epiph?

 

[rosemadderlake]

Even though I have my doubts as to whether we'll hear from anyone who knew her from Wagner, it would be really helpful to hear from someone in the pool party group.

If SL was like a lot of us back then, was she carrying these contacts in a tiny address book that fit in every purse?

 

[GoingByMyGut]

Those of us who remained behind...we all told BF we had no idea where she was. She'd pop up again. Sounds insane now. Doesn't it? And it wasn't as if she had done anything like that before. She hadn't.

The times were very different then. I can still see BF walking up and down the hill looking more frantic and in a panic as two or so days passed.

BBM: Innocence, lack of experience, lack of worldliness -- in spite of being city smart. Youth. It does that, programs you for hope and positive expectations -- and also keeps you in a bubble that's all about yourself. Insane to us, bc we are older and wiser perhaps, but young people today might react the same way. I think it's always the people on the most inner circle, like the BF, who sound the alarm. As upset as he was, I am surprised he didn't tell her parents though. Maybe he felt responsible -- like he failed to protect her? That was an expected role of BFs in the day, but who knows.

 

[rosemadderlake]

That's a good question, Rose. I have always thought of them as fellow grads, but I guess some could have been younger and still at the dorm. And I guess the fact that any fellow grads were around for a Labor Day party means they lived on the island and were starting their post-college lives there. I suppose they would be interconnected enough to "hear." But if they weren't close to Sylvia -- if she was as quiet as MMQC says and was known more, say, as the BF/F's GF than for who she was -- I wonder what they could even do with that info when they heard?

And what "version" of the story did they hear? That "he had given her a very expensive ring and she takes off"? Or that her family couldn't imagine where she had gone or why, and was worried sick about her? We can't be sure, but I don't think anyone was thinking foul play at the time.

bbm: Really good question, GBMG.

Yes, I don't think anyone initially thought foul play either and without publicity, the only way news was traveling was through hearsay. Initially people may have thought, oh she is having a crisis, she'll be back. -But, when did that perception change to the reality that she really is missing?

 

[rosemadderlake]

I'm not sure what I'm trying to get at...don't some of us share pieces of ourselves with some, but not others?

My GFs own roommates had no idea where she might be, but I did.

bbm: this is one of those golden universal nuggets of truth. Imo -It applies to all age groups. Thanks for sharing it.

-My little underground network was a well oiled machine back in the day. Would we have had a clue as to what to take seriously, or not? In retrospect, I don't think so.

Looking at the elements and events surrounding SL before she went missing, could someone who knew SL, but doesn't know SL's family, BGF, or the fiance, or was off the radar in this timeline, have a piece of this story? ...Maybe yes.

 

[Jmoose]

He "gave her a really expensive ring, and she takes off"...Why would he say this to anyone if he got the ring back? Did he really actually get the ring back? I think I said this before, but maybe he told the person who spoke to MMQC, that he got the ring back because he'd appear to be a fool if he didn't. I think he told that guy that he got the ring back, but possibly didn't. The only other alternative, for me, is that he did get it back that night, and didn't want to mention it to either the Lwowskis or MMQC.

 

[Jmoose]

bbm: this is one of those golden universal nuggets of truth. Imo -It applies to all age groups. Thanks for sharing it.

-My little underground network was a well oiled machine back in the day. Would we have had a clue as to what to take seriously, or not? In retrospect, I don't think so.

Looking at the elements and events surrounding SL before she went missing, could someone who knew SL, but doesn't know SL's family, BGF, or the fiance, or was off the radar in this timeline, have a piece of this story? ...Maybe yes.

This has to be true, I think, unless she was a victim of a random act of violence

 

[rosemadderlake]

He "gave her a really expensive ring, and she takes off"...Why would he say this to anyone if he got the ring back? Did he really actually get the ring back? I think I said this before, but maybe he told the person who spoke to MMQC, that he got the ring back because he'd appear to be a fool if he didn't. I think he told that guy that he got the ring back, but possibly didn't. The only other alternative, for me, is that he did get it back that night, and didn't want to mention it to either the Lwowskis or MMQC.

bbm: ...And why would anyone repeat it? Was it known in some circles but not others?

 

[GoingByMyGut]

He "gave her a really expensive ring, and she takes off"...Why would he say this to anyone if he got the ring back? Did he really actually get the ring back? I think I said this before, but maybe he told the person who spoke to MMQC, that he got the ring back because he'd appear to be a fool if he didn't. I think he told that guy that he got the ring back, but possibly didn't. The only other alternative, for me, is that he did get it back that night, and didn't want to mention it to either the Lwowskis or MMQC.

JMO, but I don't think this statement MMQC said the BF/F made means "she took off with the ring." For me, "I gave her a really expensive ring" translates to "I was good to her, I valued her, I made a promise and put money where my mouth was." I hear it as him trying to understand why she would leave that behind. And in combination with "and she takes off," I hear it as pain. This is why I have always suspected a breakup that night (which would also explain how he had the ring).

I am not sure he would have had any reason to tell the Ls about the ring if that happened. If, for example, SL broke up with him, since it involved breaking an engagement (a public commitment that involves families in a relationship), he might've have thought she talked about it to them first, that they were in on it.

We don't really even know why he went there that night -- did he go there to say "your daughter's missing"? Or did he go to say, "Is Sylvia back yet? I really need to talk to her?" If the latter, it might have been followed by "We thought she was with you!" Either way, the same story would come out.

 

[GoingByMyGut]

bbm: ...And why would anyone repeat it? Was it known in some circles but not others?

That's what I meant by "And what 'version' of the story did they hear?" This statement is as close as we get to the BF/F's version of events. I would imagine, if he said it to MMQC this way, he would have said it to others that way as well. No one would need to repeat it ... it would be him repeating it. To those he was closer to, maybe he said more. The version the WC friends know (bc he told them) could be "she broke up with him and ran off." JMO

 

[GoingByMyGut]

Where the heck did that post go, JMoose? I thanked it and it disappeared! You made a really good point about that being evidence of her disappearance, or at least the former relationship, being discussed. Did they speculate about what happened to her in that conversation? Or just assume she made a life elsewhere and trash her as a former GF who didn't appreciate their friend? Who knows.

 

[rosemadderlake]

JMO, but I don't think this statement MMQC said the BF/F made means "she took off with the ring." For me, "I gave her a really expensive ring" translates to "I was good to her, I valued her, I made a promise and put money where my mouth was." I hear it as him trying to understand why she would leave that behind. And in combination with "and she takes off," I hear it as pain. This is why I have always suspected a breakup that night (which would also explain how he had the ring).

I am not sure he would have had any reason to tell the Ls about the ring if that happened. If, for example, SL broke up with him, since it involved breaking an engagement (a public commitment that involves families in a relationship), he might've have thought she talked about it to them first, that they were in on it.

We don't really even know why he went there that night -- did he go there to say "your daughter's missing"? Or did he go to say, "Is Sylvia back yet? I really need to talk to her?" If the latter, it might have been followed by "We thought she was with you!" Either way, the same story would come out.

bbms: Yes, I think it does translate as pain underneath anger. Wonder if there was an unspoken or suspected "with him" at the end of she takes off?

 

[Jmoose]

Where the heck did that post go, JMoose? I thanked it and it disappeared! You made a really good point about that being evidence of her disappearance, or at least the former relationship, being discussed. Did they speculate about what happened to her in that conversation? Or just assume she made a life elsewhere and trash her as a former GF who didn't appreciate their friend? Who knows.

Lol-I "disappeared" it because it didn't make sense anymore after the comment of yours that I missed as I was writing-I'll re-compose it.

 

[GoingByMyGut]

bbms: Yes, I think it does translate as pain underneath anger. Wonder if there was an unspoken or suspected "with him" at the end of she takes off?

I have always wondered this too. A long time ago, I asked, if he didn't hear such a thing from SL, could another person have suggested it? It wouldn't take much more than that to turn angry pain into pure anger. If he felt "wronged," it's no surprise to me that, as a couple, they would split along family lines. Thus the lack of sensitivity to the Ls. Esp. since no one would have been thinking she could have been killed. Back then, at least to the BF/F and his friends and family, it may have looked like an altogether different kind of tragedy than it does now.