Found Deceased OK, Veronica Butler 27 & Jilian Kelley 39, Vehicle Abandoned, Texas County, 30 Mar 2024 #4 *Arrests*

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I’m trying not to be cynical, but people make it so difficult.
Sorry, but this is not a good look for a Judge. Birds of a feather and all that. Explains why they got rid of him so fast. What are the odds of a judge, being there when his friend gets taken down for a double homicide? WOW….what were they really discussing? If the judge hadn’t been there when the raid happened, I think they could’ve gotten away with it. This is very concerning. JMO.
 
CuriousCricket said:
A NewNation reporter is on location, scouring the area trying to find people who know the accused and are willing to talk on camera about their relationship to them. The reporter needs a constant source of new people, new stories. This Municipal Judge did an impromptu interview that was ill-advised.
Click to expand...
One has to wonder what sort of business the judge and TC had going on!! Part of the good 'ole boys network I guess.
Still wonder about participant PG as NN has no information about participant #5.
Maybe he stopped a bullet?? Who knows. JMO
 
I've been curious about how Tifany pulled this off such that Veronica had no choice but to fall into the trap - where were the vehicles, how did it work.

I wonder whether there were two barricades to ambush Veronica and Jilian. One at the highway, and one on Road L at the service road exit: 1000 ft West of the intersection? If Tifany was following Veronica, she needed a little extra time to pin Veronica between the two exits off Hwy 95. Barricading Road L at the service road, with Cora and Cole pulling up behind Veronica - perfect ambush.
  • Tifany phoned Veronica at 9 a.m.
  • Veronica left Hugoton with Jilian at 9 a.m.
  • 45 minutes to Four Corners
  • Tifany and Tad could have waited near the highway in Elkhart until they saw the Kia
  • They might have followed Veronica, using burner phones with Cora and Cole
  • Cora and Cole blocked Hwy 95 perfectly diverting Veronica off Hwy 95
  • 3 minutes to Four Corners
  • Veronica and Jilian turned West on Road L
  • 9:42 a.m. their phones stopped
12:09 p.m. Veronica's car found by her family, police contacted
 

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Well, wow...so that friendly judge was fired, asked to resign.
Yeah....TC committed 2 murders, but hey, he's still a good friend.
I don't understand these people....none of them have their marbles together.
 
otto said:
I've been curious about how Tifany pulled this off such that Veronica had no choice but to fall into the trap - where were the vehicles, how did it work.

I wonder whether there were two barricades to ambush Veronica and Jilian. One at the highway, and one on Road L at the service road exit: 1000 ft West of the intersection? If Tifany was following Veronica, she needed a little extra time to pin Veronica between the two exits off Hwy 95. Barricading Road L at the service road, with Cora and Cole pulling up behind Veronica - perfect ambush.
  • Tifany phoned Veronica at 9 a.m.
  • Veronica left Hugoton with Jilian at 9 a.m.
  • 45 minutes to Four Corners
  • Tifany and Tad could have waited near the highway in Elkhart until they saw the Kia
  • They might have followed Veronica, using burner phones with Cora and Cole
  • Cora and Cole blocked Hwy 95 perfectly diverting Veronica off Hwy 95
  • 3 minutes to Four Corners
  • Veronica and Jilian turned West on Road L
  • 9:42 a.m. their phones stopped
12:09 p.m. Veronica's car found by her family, police contacted
Click to expand...
Pretty much agree with your logic except I think Cole and Cora were the lookout and diverter. (Cora was the sentry and called Cole when she saw VB & JK and if there was no other traffic, she followed the victims) They (Cole and Cora) each had a phone so one was the lookout and one blocked the road and when VB and JK turned off the road there was TA, TC and mysterious PG as perp #5. Like you said then Cora and Cole followed them and closed the trap. JMO
 
One of my friends is a Municipal Court judge. She handles parking tickets. In NYC the Municipal Court judges are truly judges, so I’m not demeaning them, but they handle low-level stuff. Parking violations, misdemeanors etc.

There are literally more people in my apartment high-rise than there are in that whole area where these people live. I imagine in a town with so few people, judges and murderers may very well be good ol’ boys who went to the same school and know each other all their lives.

But IMO, a judge being interviewed, casually in his car, should have enough of his wits about him to have refrained from a) consenting to the interview or b) maintaining that this criminal is STILL his very good friend.

As a judge of any type, he has to know a lot about the law. He knows that his friend is legally innocent until proven guilty. Yet he ALSO can discern that the information coming from the arrest affidavit does, at the very least, strongly indicate that his friend is involved in this double murder.

A little wisdom and restraint would have served him a lot better, IMO. He must know enough that his friend could be tangentially or centrally mixed up in this and given himself some wiggle room. “I was blown away but I will wait to hear the evidence.”

Something judicial.

Jmo
 
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PommyMommy said:
Can someone refresh my recollection on what time the two witnesses (one observed a broken window, one did not) saw the car? Meanwhile, I will search... TY

LATE EDIT: Cancel that! The male witness saw the car while all the LE vehicles were there. Female witness saw it just after 10 a.m.

www.koco.com

OSBI confirms 2 bodies found in Texas County belong to missing mothers

Newly released court documents provide new details about the investigation into the disappearance of two Kansas women who went missing in late March while in Oklahoma.
www.koco.com www.koco.com
Between 10:16 a.m. and 10:35 a.m. on March 30, investigators determined that two of the phones were in a pasture below a dam where "fresh dirt work" was found. According to the affidavit," concrete was moved from an area about 150-200 yards below the dam, and there was a hole that had been dug and filled back in before being covered in hay.

The hole was about 8.5 miles away from Butler's and Kelley's last known location, and OSBI said in the affidavit that it was "well within the 34 minutes between the time of Butler/Kelley's phones stopped transmission and (the pre-paid phones arrived) at the dam."

All of the pre-paid phones stopped transmitting on the morning of March 30 at locations near the Twomblys' residence and the property by the dam.

ETA: Female witness who saw the car and observed a broken window was shortly after 10 a.m. Missing Mom and Preacher’s Wife Vanish, Picking up Kids: Car Just Found – Crime Online

ETA #2: 2 women believed to be victims of ‘brutal’ killing when picking up children for a birthday party, officials say - Veronica and Jilian's phones stopped transmitting 9:42 a.m.
Click to expand...
If someone saw the vehicle before 12:09 p.m., it sounds like they did not call police.

The car was found and reported after noon, and we saw the police presence (video) at what must have been 12:30 p.m. or later.

It sounds like people came forward later and said they saw the vehicle with a broken window. However, the car was reported to be 1000 ft from the intersection of Hwy 95 and Road L. I couldn't say that a car window was broken from that distance.

1713322579190.png
Affidavit: scroll down
www.newschannel10.com

Court Documents: 4 suspects in missing Kansas women case part of anti-government group

Court documents show the details of the investigation that led to the arrest of four suspects in the murders of Veronica Butler and Jillian Kelley.
www.newschannel10.com www.newschannel10.com
 
whitelilac said:
Well, wow...so that friendly judge was fired, asked to resign.
Yeah....TC committed 2 murders, but hey, he's still a good friend.
I don't understand these people....none of them have their marbles together.
Click to expand...
I guess I'm more forgiving - I think it can take a long time to absorb the new reality, when you discover a friend or loved one has been completely lying and two-faced. Plus the shock of being there when the raid occurred.

If something like this happened at a school, everyone would be sympathetic to the kids and they'd immediately be offered counselling. But adults? Nah, they're guilty for being friends with someone.

JMO
 
Ksfarmer8 said:
One has to wonder what sort of business the judge and TC had going on!! Part of the good 'ole boys network I guess.
Still wonder about participant PG as NN has no information about participant #5.
Maybe he stopped a bullet?? Who knows. JMO
Click to expand...
Just jumping in here and have not read any threads on this. Who's NN? I have a theory about who Paul Grice might be (just a wild guess).
 
Synergizer Bunny said:
Wow. Can LE be sued for negligence? If so, I can see both victims' families suing.

JMO.
Click to expand...
Yes- and then alot of "buts".

They can be sued. But they also have sovereign immunity and cannot truly be compelled to pay anything- But they can agree to pay a settlement for a variety of reasons. But.... I think that suits by victims that are not based on police action, but rather claimed inaction to prevent crime rarely go anywhere.

In the end, the long standing idea is that the police are not responsible for the actions of criminals, nor are they expected to have crystal balls.

In short, I think the "suit question" would get complex, real complex.
 
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APR 16, 2024
www.newsnationnow.com

Kansas mom’s attorney: Custody fight ‘contentious from beginning’

The custody dispute between Butler and her children’s paternal grandmother, Tifany Adams, was “contentious from the beginning.”
www.newsnationnow.com www.newsnationnow.com
Authorities have said the disappearance of Butler, 27, and Jilian Kelley, 39, is believed to be linked to a violent escalation in the custody dispute between Butler and Adams.

Oates told NewsNation’s Chris Cuomo that Butler was an “organized and diligent” client.

“She was extremely respectful, everything you want as a client and a person. She absolutely loved her children. And that was the goal, absolutely, to get her more time and then to be on the path to regain custody. That was our plan, for sure,” Oates said Tuesday on “CUOMO.”
 
otto said:
I've been curious about how Tifany pulled this off such that Veronica had no choice but to fall into the trap - where were the vehicles, how did it work.

I wonder whether there were two barricades to ambush Veronica and Jilian. One at the highway, and one on Road L at the service road exit: 1000 ft West of the intersection? If Tifany was following Veronica, she needed a little extra time to pin Veronica between the two exits off Hwy 95. Barricading Road L at the service road, with Cora and Cole pulling up behind Veronica - perfect ambush.
  • Tifany phoned Veronica at 9 a.m.
  • Veronica left Hugoton with Jilian at 9 a.m.
  • 45 minutes to Four Corners
  • Tifany and Tad could have waited near the highway in Elkhart until they saw the Kia
  • They might have followed Veronica, using burner phones with Cora and Cole
  • Cora and Cole blocked Hwy 95 perfectly diverting Veronica off Hwy 95
  • 3 minutes to Four Corners
  • Veronica and Jilian turned West on Road L
  • 9:42 a.m. their phones stopped
12:09 p.m. Veronica's car found by her family, police contacted
Click to expand...
Veronica's car was found at Road L and the service road?
 
NN = NewsNation
Artis said:
Just jumping in here and have not read any threads on this. Who's NN? I have a theory about who Paul Grice might be (just a wild guess).
Click to expand...
@Artis
You may not know that you already know this. :)
www.newsnationnow.com

NewsNation

U.S. News
www.newsnationnow.com www.newsnationnow.com
Maybe the NN abbrev. did not register instantly w you.

But just in case.
A cable news network, LOTTA crime coverage.

NewsNation

www.newsnationnow.com www.newsnationnow.com
Can stream on youtube, hulu, directv, and some broadcast channels.
 
Honestly, I'm surprised how many people here seem to be shocked about the political goings-on in a small town. Welcome to the world of politics. No matter if it's a rural community, small town, big city, or national level - there's always some dirty dealings going on politically. It's about who you know, favors, and leverage. Whether it's in your country's capital, or podunk Oklahoma - there's shady dealings, crime coverups, and strange bedfellows.
 
al66pine said:
NN = NewsNation

@Artis
You may not know that you already know this. :)
www.newsnationnow.com

NewsNation

U.S. News
www.newsnationnow.com www.newsnationnow.com
Maybe the NN abbrev. did not register instantly w you.

But just in case.
A cable news network, LOTTA crime coverage.

NewsNation

www.newsnationnow.com www.newsnationnow.com
Can stream on youtube, hulu, directv, and some broadcast channels.
Click to expand...
Thanks and I did see part of tonight's show.
 
APR 16, 2024
www.koco.com

4 suspects in Texas County double murder case to appear in court

The four suspects linked to the murders of Veronica Butler and Jilian Kelley are expected in court Wednesday
www.koco.com www.koco.com
The suspects are due to appear before a Texas County judge at 9:30 a.m. They will hear their charges and be advised of their constitutional rights.

The possibility of bail may be discussed, but it has been set for the four suspects, and they have not yet bonded out of jail.
 
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