Found Deceased OK, Veronica Butler 27 & Jilian Kelley 39, Vehicle Abandoned, Texas County, 30 Mar 2024 #4 *Arrests*

[Chimera]

And also, I don't think *three* phones ever went to the burial site ... only two… Right? But also the clumps in which the three phones were moving around is a little odd. The language in this part of the affadavit is not crystal clear, but it looks like:

- 9141 and 9085 start the day at the Twomblys’ place, then go to the Cullums. (it doesn’t say where phone 5753 begins its day, but presumably at the Cullums’?

- All three phones then go to the site of the car stop.

- 9141 then goes *back* to the Twomblys and stays there until it goes offline.

- 9085 and 5752 go from the car stop site to the Cullums, and then to the Beasleys, until they go offline as well.

I just thought the way these phones were pairing up with one another in different ways at different times during the day was sort of interesting. That is to say, the one phone that appears to have overnighted at the Cullums’ seems to have made all the stops, whereas the two phones that were staying with the Twomblys had rather different trajectories (one of those two stuck with 5752, whereas the other seems to have gone right home.

What IF the third phone was with PG at the crime scene ?
According to the AA , linked in the post below, the daughter of CT was told that he was present.
Omo.

Regarding earlier comments that Tifany Adams admitted involvement in the murders, I think she feels justified in the murders. I think she expects others to treat her as the saviour who protects children, rather than a murderer who caused life-long harm to at least 6 children.

In Tifany Adams' warped world, Veronica was going to expose the children to a man that Tifany Adams alleged would harm the children. There seems to be no truth to this; no independent evidence. The allegation strikes me as a well known dirty tactic used by parents (and others) when they are desperate for custody, but don't have a leg to stand on.

That is Tifany's defence. She feels justified in murdering Veronica because she believes that Veronica would place the children in danger - or, at the very least, that's what Tifany wants others to believe. I think that is her defence for organizing the murder of Veronica.

She has no defence for organizing the murder of Jilian. Per Cora's statement to her daughter, Jilian's murder was justified because "[Jilian] had supported [Veronica] Butler". That is not true. Jilian Kelley was a paid employee performing a role specified by a court order. Jilian was supporting the children. I think it was the murder of Jilian that led to Cora's daughter contacting police. We probably would not know about the murder of Veronica if Jilian was not there.
View attachment 498019
Affidavit for Arrest Warrant

 

[Bree1950]

If you read

Recovered bodies in missing Kansas moms search yet to be identified: Police

The discovery of the bodies came weeks after two Kansas moms were reported missing.

www.newsnationnow.com

From the Probable Cause affidavits linked below in the article :

Butler and Kelley's phone records indicated their devices were actively sending signals to their carriers until approximately 0942 hours, after which the devices were no longer seen by the networks and stopped transmitting.
Neither phone was found at the scene or within the vehicle and they are currently missing.

On March 28 or 29, 2024, Cullum asked Beasley if he could cut a tree down, remove a stump, bury some concrete, do dirt work where the concrete pile was and below the dam.
Red emphasis mine.

This answers my question regarding the concrete being 'moved'.

If I were LE, I'd look for the phones at that property.
Even if destroyed, wouldn't there be a slim possibility of recovering evidence forensically ?

Cullum told Beasley that he didn’t want the police or people to cause problems for Beasley and said that all the skid steer tracks on his property without a skid steer looked bad. Beasley said that if anyone asked, he would tell them that Cullum had done tree and dirt work for him.

And this landowner didn't question TC ??
Smh.

Maybe afraid of TC and TA.

I'll bet LE has spoken to him and may do so again in the future.
Omo.

the OSBI timeline, published in the Oklahoman on April 18th, some of the burner phones were found with the victims. They tracked signals from TC’s leased farm property at 10:26 AM the morning of the crime about an hour after the car was blocked on the road. This means within a time line of an hour they were able to block car and drive 8.5 miles to bury victims! Veronica and Jilian’s personal phones stopped transmitting 2 minutes after they were diverted on the road ( I’m wondering if this is when the stuns were utilized?). The ladies phones and Jilian’s pistol are still missing. I’m think they kept these items as trophies of their work like sicko Perps are known to do. Does anyone know if either one had an Apple Watch on that day? An Apple Watch is what recorded Jamal Khashoggi’s murder at the Saudi Embassy unknown to everyone at the time!

 

[Rixey]

It seems that all 4 could afford good legal representation so I was wondering about all 4 being assigned public defenders. Maybe not wanting to spend up all they have for a defense when they know they won't win? But saving the money for what, when it looks like they won't get to use it anytime soon? Just curious about this. I expected at least TA to provide her own lawyer.
Anyone else have thoughts on this?

This is actually pretty standard procedure even for those with means & intention to hire an attorney. The PD lawyers will simply serve as legal representation until whatever lawyers the defendants hire take over. Some people have their attorney arranged in time for the initial court appearances, many do not. This allows the court proceedings to go on with everyone properly & legally represented.

(IANAL, just the daughter of a criminal defense atty)

 

[Bree1950]

Th

Perhaps Beasley was the one who thought it necessary to bring LE out to search after the arrest warrants were issued

LE had tracked the burner phones to the burial site so whether he called or not, LE would have dug there as soon as they could get a search warrant.

 

[Bree1950]

Tad: Also one of the women who mysteriously disappeared has been in a really ugly custody battle with my girlfriend for years. So definitely don't mention that I was out here digging holes on the day those women went missing.

Landowner: Wow, what a crazy coincidence. Life's so funny sometimes. Anyway, have a good one!

If someone told me this, I would have said, “OK”, shut my door and immediately notified LE!

 

[Bree1950]

Tad: Also one of the women who mysteriously disappeared has been in a really ugly custody battle with my girlfriend for years. So definitely don't mention that I was out here digging holes on the day those women went missing.

Landowner: Wow, what a crazy coincidence. Life's so funny sometimes. Anyway, have a good one!

If someone told me this, I would have said, “OK”, shut

I totally agree. Coming from a farming family, we rent land long term to others. They are neighbors that we've known for generations, would never expect them to be involved in a murder, but nowadays you never know.

I'd hate folks wouldn't turn on our family, if we had no knowledge.

I don't think the landowner gave it a second thought, other than a courtesy.

None of the male farmers in my family are in the know of the local gossip. They're thinking about rain, the price of cattle, hay and feed and if they're going to make a profit at the end of the day. Farmers work long days sun up to sundown, most aren't on Twitter and Facebook, and are lucky to catch the 11:00 News at night.

I don't think there was very much media coverage the first few days. For all we know the owner could have contacted LE.

Moo

I feel Beasley had a good idea things weren’t right when Tad C told him to not tell anyone he was digging that day. I’d think, well, if you weren’t doing anything wrong why does it matter?

 

[Chimera]

If you read

the OSBI timeline, published in the Oklahoman on April 18th, some of the burner phones were found with the victims. They tracked signals from TC’s leased farm property at 10:26 AM the morning of the crime about an hour after the car was blocked on the road. This means within a time line of an hour they were able to block car and drive 8.5 miles to bury victims! Veronica and Jilian’s personal phones stopped transmitting 2 minutes after they were diverted on the road ( I’m wondering if this is when the stuns were utilized?). The ladies phones and Jilian’s pistol are still missing. I’m think they kept these items as trophies of their work like sicko Perps are known to do. Does anyone know if either one had an Apple Watch on that day? An Apple Watch is what recorded Jamal Khashoggi’s murder at the Saudi Embassy unknown to everyone at the time!

Bbm.
I don't know if they had it uploaded, but the 'find my phone' app could help locate the victim's phones ?

 

[Bree1950]

This is actually pretty standard procedure even for those with means & intention to hire an attorney. The PD lawyers will simply serve as legal representation until whatever lawyers the defendants hire take over. Some people have their attorney arranged in time for the initial court appearances, many do not. This allows the court proceedings to go on with everyone properly & legally represented.

(IANAL, just the daughter of a criminal defense atty)

I’m not sure what IANAL stands for? Reading your post, I’m thinking we could have some good conversations! I’m a widow of a Prosecutor.

 

[tatertot]

Others have theorized that JK may have fired her gun. LE hasn't mentioned that the gun has been found, only that a magazine for it was found in her purse. I'm sure by now LE has asked her husband if any additional magazines she owned are unaccounted for.

So hypothetically, what if there was another member of GM aside from PG involved in this plot (but not the failed February plot) who was shot and killed by JK? The others could hardly report their death by gunshot since it happened during the commission of a crime, so what could they do aside from hiding the body and maybe reporting their friend "missing" later? The group members' collective egos might have prevented them from admitting what happened to anyone from outside their tight-knit circle, and CT might have omitted this information from what she told her daughter.

In such a case, you would think the family of the "missing" GM member would be infuriated at the group, but maybe not if their loyalty was that strong or their fear of repercussion was so great.

 

[SteveP]

I’m not sure what IANAL stands for? Reading your post, I’m thinking we could have some good conversations! I’m a widow of a Prosecutor.

IANAL...I am not a lawyer.

 

[whitelilac]

Why on earth would these geniuses bury the bodies on someone else's property, especially when the owner could be around, like he was? Didn't these idiots have masses of their own properties where digging could have been done in a more clandestine matter? Or not having to spend time digging anyway, with the plenty of abandoned wells around?

 

[Artis]

Tad: Also one of the women who mysteriously disappeared has been in a really ugly custody battle with my girlfriend for years. So definitely don't mention that I was out here digging holes on the day those women went missing.

Landowner: Wow, what a crazy coincidence. Life's so funny sometimes. Anyway, have a good one!

Our replies remind me of Norm MacDonald (bless his soul) on OJ.

 

[Artis]

Lol.
Wouldn't anyone want to know more, though -- after the odd suggestions given by the renter of the land, TC ?
I'd imagine LE have spoken extensively to the landowner (JB) by now.
As far as we know, LE were ok with his explanation.
The investigation is still ongoing.
Omo.

Doesn't sound like JB was too good connecting dots.

 

[GRT]

He was a judge several counties away. A municipal judge, handling things like traffic tickets.

Moo

That's true, but at the same time, he must have been aware of CT's animosity toward VB because he asked him if he had anything to do with the women's disappearance.

 

[agilbe]

I’m not sure what IANAL stands for? Reading your post, I’m thinking we could have some good conversations! I’m a widow of a Prosecutor.

DBM

 

[Charlotte65]

But … how and when (and under whose steam) did phone “9141” get back from the site of the stopped car to the Twombleys’ place? The affadavit says that all three phones “stopped transmitting on the morning of March 30, 2024, at locations near ‘Twombly’s residence and Beasley's property.” We know that only phones 5752 and 9085 pinged at Mr Beasley’s, so presumably those two met their demises there -- thus 9141 must have been the one that breathed its last that morning at the Twomblys’. However, CW’s testimony said that when she awoke (10ish) that C&C were not at home, and that they did not get back until around noon. Of course, it’s possible that C&C got home at 11:59, so that counts as morning, and since two cars are mentioned (and because 9141 never pings at Beasley’s) it makes sense that they wouldn’t have been together and thus not on the same page about how/when to cut off the phones. Still, it doesn’t seem like the only possibility about how that phone returned home (and it’s also interesting that there is no mention made of what 9141 was up to in between the car stop and its final contact back at the Twombleys’ that morning)

 

[otto]

Thanks for posting that part of the AA.
I have no reason to believe PG was not there.
Do not know in what capacity.
Driver only ?
Lookout ?

As LE have said thus far no more arrests are in the future, I'm amazed that the fifth person's name wasn't redacted.
I know this has been mentioned before, so just airing my .02, but it seems either sloppy or calculated by LE.
My money is on the latter.

Waiting impatiently for an update from LE.
Omo.

It's quite possible that the person 5, named in the affidavit, was at Road L during the kidnapping. He might have been horrified at what happened. There's no doubt that it was a planned ambush against two women, but did he anticipate brutality with a hammer?

Veronica's glasses were found South of her car near a broken hammer. This sounds like an extremely violent, brutal attack. Did she try to run, but was hopelessly out-numbered? What about Jilian? Did she think that she was safe because they couldn't have anything against her?

Person 5 might have expected a soft abduction rather than brutal violence. It didn't go as planned might be a serious under-statement.

Did the fifth person contact police with a lawyer, obtain immunity, and was his statement then corroborated by Cora's daughter?

 

[Artis]

The fishiness and mystery are driving the wild speculation. That's natural. When there's an obvious fact vacuum--theories spring up to fill it.

The options as I see them -- in the order of likelihood are as follows:

• PG was involved with the group and started singing, but the feds cut a deal that they're not ready to reveal. He's in witness protection. Somewhere.
• PG was not a plant but was weak, and the group sensed he might start singing, so they offed him. The FBI knows but is not ready to make it public.
• PG was a plant (FBI, IRS, some other agency), and he was instrumental in getting the group to drop the February mission, but the group sensed he was weak and did not let him in on the latest mission. He's in PC.

We could go on all day -- and we probably will -- trying to figure out why this guy was listed as being a participant in the AA. Still, we know virtually nothing else about him, and LE says they're not looking at arresting anyone else.

So, he's dead or in custody of some sort.

All JMOO and pure speculation.

Well, again, my wild guess would be that local authorities released that unredacted AA and it was after the fact that someone decided to make Grice basically John Doe #2. Cora specifically named him, to her daughter, as one of the three waiting at the spot to where the victims were diverted. Why would she say that if he wasn't there?

 

[Chimera]

It's quite possible that the person 5, named in the affidavit, was at Road L during the kidnapping. He might have been horrified at what happened. There's no doubt that it was a planned ambush against two women, but did he anticipate brutality with a hammer?

Veronica's glasses were found South of her car near a broken hammer. This sounds like an extremely violent, brutal attack. Did she try to run, but was hopelessly out-numbered? What about Jilian? Did she think that she was safe because they couldn't have anything against her?

Person 5 might have expected a soft abduction rather than brutal violence. It didn't go as planned might be a serious under-statement.

Did the fifth person contact police with a lawyer, obtain immunity, and was his statement then corroborated by Cora's daughter?

Bbm.
Yes , all good points.
I've thought about the bolded.
Anything is likely.

 

[imstilla.grandma]

Pastor Heath Kelley’s current and future churches are requesting prayers for the victims’ families. On the Hugoton First Christian Facebook page, an administrator posted Thursday (April 18):

On behalf of the Kelley Family they would like to send a huge THANK YOU and appreciation to all their family, friends, church family, community and surrounding communities for the outpouring of love in prayers, hugs, food, supplies, visits and donations. Each one has been a blessing and they are humbled by your love and generosity.

The post continued: “The family would also like to share with you the following song that Jilian had been listening to on repeat over the past few months, ‘Whatever It Takes’ by Stephen Stanley.”

Hugoton First Christian Church | On behalf of the Kelley Family they would like to send a huge THANK YOU and appreciation to all their family, friends, church family, community and su... | Facebook

On behalf of the Kelley Family they would like to send a huge THANK YOU and appreciation to all their family, friends, church family, community and surrounding communities for the outpouring of love...

www.facebook.com