Found Deceased OK, Veronica Butler 27 & Jilian Kelley 39, Vehicle Abandoned, Texas County, 30 Mar 2024 #4 *Arrests*

[Artis]

I wonder if Cora, Cole, Tad, and Tiffany were standing up there before the judge yesterday wondering where their fifth wheel went? Or do they know where he went? Or have an idea about it?

Or what he was doing in their group just hit them in their heads like an anvil.

 

[Bigditch]

Did anyone check the local hospitals to see if anyone came in that day with gunshot injuries?

 

[doublestop]

Getting little hints here and there (on a MUCH smaller scale, of course) of the Rhoden/Wagner case. This whole thing really makes me so angry. The kids will suffer so much. Horrible.

I wonder if that's what gave TA the idea.

 

[Bogbacal2]

What if Jilian got off a shot???? MOO

I was wondering the same. Cora did mention to her daughter that the “mission” didn’t go as planned….wonder if she was talking about them not having time to move the car-well, now how would the 4 know they didn’t have time to move it unless they knew JK or VB was talking with someone on the phone…or, JK could have gotten a few shots in…and they had to move 3 bodies instead of 2, but I think we would know that by now. If JK had gotten a few shots in, too bad she couldn’t have gotten the ring leader! What a twist that would have been!

 

[Seattle1]

However, how completely shortsighted could TA be? She took herself out of the children's future by doing what she did. And now, the brother she made the claims against may file for custody.

JMOO, but had the accusations been real, I think TA and her band of merry men would have targeted VB's brother, not VB.

^^rsbm

I don't think it likely that VB's minor brother will seek custody of his niece and nephew since he too is a child!

But I agree that the teen would likely be the target.

However, I've long thought it telling that WR, the father of the subject children (custody battle), who at the time of the alleged SA was enjoying shared custody, didn't personally react here-- either legally or illegally!

Instead, it was his mother, TA, sounding the bells and whistles-- with her trusted, hand picked sources, of course.

And it's a fact that WR is no stranger to criminal assault. IMO, you'd think if ever one had a valid reason to go off on somebody.... just sayin. MOO

ETA-- Custody Summary from the Public Docket:

• The parents WR and VB were never married and share two children born in 2015 and 2018.
• December 2018, the parties terminated their relationship.
• February 2019, the Father, WR, instituted an action to determine paternity and share custody of the children.
• May 2019 - the Court awarded sole, legal custody to the Mother, VB, and standard visitation to the Father, WR.
• May 2021 - the Father, WR, appealed the trial court's order.
• August 2022 - Based on the Appellant's (WR) brief only, the trial court's custody decision was reversed, and the matter remanded to the trial court to enter a shared custody agreement.
• September 2022 - Appellant/Petitioner WR's motion for appeal related attorneys fees denied.

OSCN Case Details

 

[imstilla.grandma]

State Sen. Nathan Dahm, who is the chairman of the Oklahoma GOP, told KOCO 5 that he was aware of her involvement.

“This is a tragic situation, with innocent children being at the centre of this still-developing situation,” he told the outlet. “While we at the Oklahoma Republican Party have no personal relationship or knowledge of the individuals who have been accused in this senseless crime, we have been made aware that Ms Adams was previously elected by a handful of people to the role of Chair in her county.

Suspect in death of 2 Kansas women was Cimarron County GOP chair

State Sen. Nathan Dahm, who is the chairman of the Oklahoma GOP, spoke out on Tuesday on the tragic situation and the suspect's position

www.koco.com

 

[nhmemorymaker]

Yes, if VB according to her father, had been engaged in battle with TA for five years and was refused a protection order, that suggests TA was front and centre to opposing custody arrangements ever since 2019 and she was just using Wrangler because of his status as the children’s father. Once he was sent to rehab, things changed especially as VB reportedly was indeed getting her life in track.

I admit I feel a certain amount of empathy for the guy. It can’t be easy being raised by such a dominant, egotistical mother. It’s not unusual that he turned to drugs or alcohol as a coping mechanism.

JMO

I was starting to feel empathy too..
But when I add his behaviors, assault on the new wife, saying the discussion with his grandmother did not take place, and now knowing he DID know about the plan...I've totally changed my tune.
Massive rehab should be in order, not rehab to get out of jail time.
Wondering what he is thinking about. A dead wife and mother?. A mailed mother?

 

[doublestop]

View attachment 498019
Affidavit for Arrest Warrant

While I admit my first assumption was also that they were in a well, I wonder why the 16 year old though that...if bodies had been put in wells before by this bunch.

 

[nhmemorymaker]

On Tuesday it was reported that Ms Adams was elected chair of her local Republican Party in Cimarron County, which borders Texas County.

State Sen. Nathan Dahm, who is the chairman of the Oklahoma GOP, told KOCO 5 that he was aware of her involvement.

“This is a tragic situation, with innocent children being at the centre of this still-developing situation,” he told the outlet. “While we at the Oklahoma Republican Party have no personal relationship or knowledge of the individuals who have been accused in this senseless crime, we have been made aware that Ms Adams was previously elected by a handful of people to the role of Chair in her county.

Suspect in death of 2 Kansas women was Cimarron County GOP chair

State Sen. Nathan Dahm, who is the chairman of the Oklahoma GOP, spoke out on Tuesday on the tragic situation and the suspect's position

www.koco.com

Welllll.....that's a good rebuke. Sorry, TA you are nothing to us.

 

[agilbe]

O

Others have theorized that JK may have fired her gun. LE hasn't mentioned that the gun has been found, only that a magazine for it was found in her purse. I'm sure by now LE has asked her husband if any additional magazines she owned are unaccounted for.

So hypothetically, what if there was another member of GM aside from PG involved in this plot (but not the failed February plot) who was shot and killed by JK? The others could hardly report their death by gunshot since it happened during the commission of a crime, so what could they do aside from hiding the body and maybe reporting their friend "missing" later? The group members' collective egos might have prevented them from admitting what happened to anyone from outside their tight-knit circle, and CT might have omitted this information from what she told her daughter.

In such a case, you would think the family of the "missing" GM member would be infuriated at the group, but maybe not if their loyalty was that strong or their fear of repercussion was so gr

I was wondering the same. Cora did mention to her daughter that the “mission” didn’t go as planned….wonder if she was talking about them not having time to move the car-well, now how would the 4 know they didn’t have time to move it unless they knew JK or VB was talking with someone on the phone…or, JK could have gotten a few shots in…and they had to move 3 bodies instead of 2, but I think we would know that by now. If JK had gotten a few shots in, too bad she couldn’t have gotten the ring leader! What a twist that would have been!

BBM A twist yes, but sadly the end would have been the same.

 

[Artis]

You just can't make this stuff up. A sitting judge???

I assume the judge is a lawyer and that Tad was talking to him about the sheriff looking at him re: the missing women. If that's the case, it's not an odd question when asking for legal advice and it wouldn't be odd for a friend to believe you when you say you had nothing to do with it. There are lots of murder cases where people who know people who have committed murder are stunned when they learn about the crime.

 

[imstilla.grandma]

Adams and the three other suspects belonged to an anti-government religious group called "God's Misfits" that would meet regularly, according to an affidavit, reports Des Moines Register and FOX 25. (The Facebook page for "God's Misfits" has made several posts denouncing the alleged crimes and refuting claims by police they are anti-government)

Remains Found in Okla. Identified as 2 Missing Kansas Women After 4 Arrested on Murder Charges

"Our thoughts and prayers are with their loved ones," the Oklahoma State Bureau of Investigation (OBSI) said in a statement

au.news.yahoo.com

https://www.facebook.com/GodsMisfitsMinistries/posts/pfbid0eLRySV2FgF8C99rqs383eGPjZTtmKFeJmpwGsHNvk1FoPPB2aPLdSTHTuninbiNol

 

[Artis]

Bbm.
It would appear if the bolded is correct that it can't be over emphasized.

Even IF this is a getaway driver situation -- where the person was not involved in a murder -- they can be charged and convicted !
The fact that LE aren't expecting to make further arrests could mean PG was not at the scene of the killings and the group didn't speak about what their plans were beforehand, in PG's presence.
I find that unlikely, given CW's testimony.
Yet LE have their reasons, and they've stated the investigation is ongoing.
Imo.

So is PG in witness protection ?
Waiting for LE to give an update.
Also not certain there won't be any more arrests down the road.
The murder case in Sugar Land, TX saw the getaway driver, Steven Champagne, who was at the scene but didn't go into the house during the murders, arrested and imprisoned for 15 years.
He was paroled in twelve.

Texas man targeted by a hitman fights for the life of the person who ordered the murder – his son

What begins as a quest to identify the killer in a double homicide reveals a stunning conspiracy and 15 years later, becomes the story of a victim willing to forgive and begging the state to have mercy

www.cbsnews.com

What's significant about CW's statement was that Cora told her that just two hours AFTER the murders. So, this wasn't like the February deal where CW overheard a conversation. Cora, just back from a double murder, said Grice was there. Why say that if he wasn't?

 

[doublestop]

So hypothetically, what if there was another member of GM aside from PG involved in this plot (but not the failed February plot) who was shot and killed by JK? The others could hardly report their death by gunshot since it happened during the commission of a crime, so what could they do aside from hiding the body and maybe reporting their friend "missing" later?

But then they'd have to have disposed of that body too. The easiest way would have been with the two victims, but apparently it was just the two of them there. What would they have done with the other body?

 

[nhmemorymaker]

@Chimera, Comment regarding LE on roof and drone in air at jail was in the MSM On Air interview posted by me earlier today above where the Sheriff of Texas County spoke briefly to reporters. Feel free to take a listen to confirm. Sheriff would not answer any specific questions from the Press regarding the investigation. IMO his responses were clear and to the point on the matters that he was able to discuss.

The message the Sheriff seemed to be pushing imo was that local LE in Texas Country had the support of the locals (my paraphrase). My question to this is I wonder if he made this statement to differentiate the situation with local support of LE in Texas County vs Cimarron County (home County of TA who by all accounts was 'quite close/cosy/controlling of' local LE who testified in the Custody hearings about VB not requiring LE support at custody pickup/drop off meetings and who also was reported to accompany TA to Custody hearings as well)?

So far as I have seen on MSM we have YET to have ANY RESPONSE from Cimarron County LE who based on what has been visible to the public imo with this investigation were excluded entirely.

Texas County Sheriff was imo quite clear in the interview that everything that was done in terms of jail exterior security was done based on an abundance of caution because they weren't sure exactly what they were dealing with yet.

Serious point you bring up. Where WAS Cimmaron county on any and all of this?

 

[Seattle1]

Why would anyone care about skid steer tracks without a skid steer? It's not a fixed piece of equipment and is normally moved around various locations. Heavy-duty mining equipment or road-building graders, maybe, but a skid steer is innocuous and almost ubiquitous in farms or ranches, farm supply stores, even just suburban Home Depot and Lowe's stores.

^^rsbm

I imagine there had been drones surveilling the area for days and it follows that LE would be looking for recent changes and/or disturbances to the acreage near the abduction site.

In full context, TC prefaced the conversation with the land owner that he was being looked at in the disappearance of the missing women, and knowing that the property was full of fresh skid steer tracks but there was no skid steer in site, he didn't want to cause any trouble for the land owner.

In other words, I'd say TC was exhibiting consciousness of guilt and sought to convince the land owner to explain the tracks to anybody that might make inquiry that he hired TC to remove some trees and do some ground work for him. JMO

 

[Seattle1]

And also, I don't think *three* phones ever went to the burial site ... only two… Right? But also the clumps in which the three phones were moving around is a little odd. The language in this part of the affadavit is not crystal clear, but it looks like:

- 9141 and 9085 start the day at the Twomblys’ place, then go to the Cullums. (it doesn’t say where phone 5753 begins its day, but presumably at the Cullums’?

- All three phones then go to the site of the car stop.

- 9141 then goes *back* to the Twomblys and stays there until it goes offline.

- 9085 and 5752 go from the car stop site to the Cullums, and then to the Beasleys, until they go offline as well.

I just thought the way these phones were pairing up with one another in different ways at different times during the day was sort of interesting. That is to say, the one phone that appears to have overnighted at the Cullums’ seems to have made all the stops, whereas the two phones that were staying with the Twomblys had rather different trajectories (one of those two stuck with 5752, whereas the other seems to have gone right home.

This information specific about the location of the burner phones near the bodies is new since AA dated April 12, 2024.

Court documents reveal suspect admitted responsibility for death of missing Kansas women

KSN has obtained new documents in the case of Veronica Butler and Jilian Kelley.

www.ksn.com

4/17/24

The newly obtained court documents also revealed that the bodies of Butler and Kelley were found where the burner phones were disposed of – on a pasture below a dam that Cullum rents for cattle grazing. The property, which is located 8.5 miles from the location where the women disappeared and where Butler’s vehicle was found, had fresh dirt work done.

“The area of disturbed dirt was excavated and the bodies of two individuals were discovered,” the court document states.

 

[agilbe]

Adams and the three other suspects belonged to an anti-government religious group called "God's Misfits" that would meet regularly, according to an affidavit, reports Des Moines Register and FOX 25. (The Facebook page for "God's Misfits" has made several posts denouncing the alleged crimes and refuting claims by police they are anti-government)

Remains Found in Okla. Identified as 2 Missing Kansas Women After 4 Arrested on Murder Charges

"Our thoughts and prayers are with their loved ones," the Oklahoma State Bureau of Investigation (OBSI) said in a statement

au.news.yahoo.com

https://www.facebook.com/GodsMisfitsMinistries/posts/pfbid0eLRySV2FgF8C99rqs383eGPjZTtmKFeJmpwGsHNvk1FoPPB2aPLdSTHTuninbiNol

Oh WOW now even their group is bailing on them!!!

 

[KariKae]

Shouldn't the preliminary cause of death be released by now?

 

[OldAce]

I think she was bragging. I doubt there's an ounce of remorse in her. She was determined to kill that poor woman and she did, and she was proud of herself for doing it.

Could it be a plan to crow about her accomplishment; solely her plan and management, be declared insane and spend her time in a mental hospital? And if it lightened the sentencing on the others, great game.