Found Deceased OK, Veronica Butler 27 & Jilian Kelley 39, Vehicle Abandoned, Texas County, 30 Mar 2024 #6 *Arrests*

[ClearAhead]

I wonder if the misfits abandoned plans to move the vehicle because another car was approaching down the highway.

They might have high-tailed it out of there to keep from possibly being recognized with plans to go back but VB's family got there first.

All MOO

Yes could’ve been somebody’s assigned task but they didn’t follow through for a reason such as that. Perhaps TA had already left and didn’t know the abandoned Kia was visable from the highway?

I appreciate the topography is quite flat around there but it strikes me as a bit odd for the misfits to go to such lengths to maneuver a vehicle off a highway, yet in a location where the abandoned vehicle can still be seen. I wonder if this location was a last ditch effort after an earlier planned attempt at another murderous detour failed?

 

[SteveP]

That livestock trailer in the photos is 8 feet wide. A 74” Kia could have easily been driven inside. Then the killers could break out the front windshield and climb out. The pickup pulling the trailer could have then driven the Kia somewhere to dispose of it.

I have not been around enough stock trailers to tell a one-foot difference when glancing at it as it passes by, but if it is 8 feet wide, and the KIa would have easily fit inside, I am left wondering why they didn't do that. It seems like it wouldn't have taken more than a couple minutes. We all have differing opinions on what the plans for the car were, and that is not a bad thing. I definitely believe that it was not planned for it to be left there to be discovered. Beyond that, is anyone's guess. I choose to believe that it was intended to have been driven away. JMO

 

[Bree1950]

Could be that that lie was for the sole benefit of Brune with no other thought given to the fact that Veronica's and Jilians would be looking for them. It's possible that Tifany didn't know a birthday party was planned and that people would be waiting all to return for that. She may have thought she had hours before anyone would notice they were gone. The visits were to end at 5PM. Dunno if that included getting back to the exchange point which would be closer to 6PM. Either way, she may have been counting on having a minimum of seven hours before anyone missed them. In that time, the car could have been gotten rid of but because V's family were waiting at the party, then went searching and found the car by noon.

WOW! I had never thought of this! If TA had no idea about the Party, she would have thought no one would begin to look for them for many hours!

 

[Chimera]

So, we know the misfits blocked the highway, and we know the Kia turned down L Road.

But I think Veronica had to have recognized some sort of threat for her to turn down a dirt side road like that. Her destination was just a few short miles ahead. I would think most people would have stopped on the highway and inquired as to what was wrong and when the vehicle would have been moved.

But, something else occurred to me -- someone had to be either following the women or parked along the road, and when the women passed -- that person would have called ahead to let them know the gals were almost there. I mean -- the misfits couldn't really block the road and risk blocking a different driver.

JMOO

Bolding mine.
P. Grice ?

All of that preparation.
Burner phones and a pre-dug hole.
Plans within plans.
They must have thought they were criminal masterminds.
Smh.
Omo.

 

[SteveP]

Bolding mine.
P. Grice ?

All of that preparation.
Burner phones and a pre-dug hole.
Plans within plans.
They must have thought they were criminal masterminds.
Smh.
Omo.

When each of them looked at the others, it is easy to understand why each one probably thought they were the brains of the gang. JMO

 

[Chimera]

These criminals aren’t Christians. They likely only used their “church” to launder money. Cash donations, no receipts and no IRS bothering them.

They also paid their state and federal taxes, so they aren’t sovereign citizens either.

I thought there was something to the effect of; "...Shall not kill" ?
The perps must have missed that part.
Omo.

 

[SteveP]

I thought there was something to the effect of; "...Shall not kill" ?
The perps must have missed that part.
Omo.

That is buffet style Christianity. PIck what you want to take and skip over what you want to pass on.

 

[Chimera]

He is sorry for their loss?

Too late

Thanks for explaining that !
I listened twice and couldn't tell what P.G. was mumbling.
Omo.

Eta. Listened once more w/the volume turned up and caught it.

P. G. also responded to the reporter's question re. anything to say to his family : (wife & kids ?) : "...Miss 'em. I love them".
Really ??? That is not how you treat your young family by taking actions that could (& did !) put you behind bars to maybe face the DP or life without parole.
That's not loving your family.
Anyone of that group with a brain cell could see how easily the ridiculous plan could fall apart !
Omo.

 

[CuriousCricket]

Yes could’ve been somebody’s assigned task but they didn’t follow through for a reason such as that. Perhaps TA had already left and didn’t know the abandoned Kia was visable from the highway?

I appreciate the topography is quite flat around there but it strikes me as a bit odd for the misfits to go to such lengths to maneuver a vehicle off a highway, yet in a location where the abandoned vehicle can still be seen. I wonder if this location was a last ditch effort after an earlier planned attempt at another murderous detour failed?

I think it's entirely possible the Misfits had made an earlier attempt and this was a second effort with the final being at the meet-up place.

I wonder if the driver of the vehicle in front may have been anxious and pulled up too fast, which did not allow the Kia and the vehicles behind it to get down the road far enough from the main road. Or maybe that was necessary because VB would have a choice and they had to get to the Kia before VB reached the fork in the roads.

It's difficult to feel confident what they might have been thinking.

 

[CuriousCricket]

We all have differing opinions on what the plans for the car were, and that is not a bad thing. I definitely believe that it was not planned for it to be left there to be discovered. Beyond that, is anyone's guess. I choose to believe that it was intended to have been driven away. JMO

Possibly, and it makes sense. The Misfits don't seem to be the type to studied about DNA evidence, etc.

So what could have prevented that? An older mindset that a key was necessary to move vehicle. So, assumption was that Veronica would either leave key in ignition or have it on her body. So, easy to retrieve.

Since her broken glasses were found south of the Kia, she was out of the car. As someone has mentioned, perhaps she threw the key or fob or whatever the vehicle needed as far into a field as she could? The gang wouldn't have time to hunt for it.

That would also have prevented the Kia from being driven onto a trailer to be hauled away.

 

[SteveP]

Possibly, and it makes sense. The Misfits don't seem to be the type to studied about DNA evidence, etc.

So what could have prevented that? An older mindset that a key was necessary to move vehicle. So, assumption was that Veronica would either leave key in ignition or have it on her body. So, easy to retrieve.

Since her broken glasses were found south of the Kia, she was out of the car. As someone has mentioned, perhaps she threw the key or fob or whatever the vehicle needed as far into a field as she could? The gang wouldn't have time to hunt for it.

That would also have prevented the Kia from being driven onto a trailer to be hauled away.

I could be completely wrong, and often am, but I think the weak link in the group is probably PG. For my scenario, that the car was meant to be driven away, to be correct, someone would have needed to have driven with someone else. I think we can pretty much be sure that each CT drove, as we have heard that they drove both a pickup and flatbed. It seems likely to me that TA would have driven alone, leaving TC and PG to have ridden together, which makes sense, if we assume that TC was at the site of the hole that morning, which was across the road from PG, IIRC. So, again in my scenario, which, again, may be completely wrong, PG was meant to be the driver. For whatever reason, freezing up in fear and backing out, or something happening that left the car undriveable, I am not sure, but the car was not moved.

Even a plan doomed for failure is still a plan. I am almost certain that there was a plan of some type for the Kia to be removed from the scene. They had a frikkin Wile E Coyote anvil plan a month earlier, and googled how to get someone out of a house. Do any of us really think they just "forgot" about the car being at the scene of the crime? Not I. Something happened to blow their plan for it out of the water, but I am sure there must have been one. JMO

 

[CuriousCricket]

I could be completely wrong, and often am, but I think the weak link in the group is probably PG. For my scenario, that the car was meant to be driven away, to be correct, someone would have needed to have driven with someone else. I think we can pretty much be sure that each CT drove, as we have heard that they drove both a pickup and flatbed. It seems likely to me that TA would have driven alone, leaving TC and PG to have ridden together, which makes sense, if we assume that TC was at the site of the hole that morning, which was across the road from PG, IIRC. So, again in my scenario, which, again, may be completely wrong, PG was meant to be the driver. For whatever reason, freezing up in fear and backing out, or something happening that left the car undriveable, I am not sure, but the car was not moved.

Even a plan doomed for failure is still a plan. I am almost certain that there was a plan of some type for the Kia to be removed from the scene. They had a frikkin Wile E Coyote anvil plan a month earlier, and googled how to get someone out of a house. Do any of us really think they just "forgot" about the car being at the scene of the crime? Not I. Something happened to blow their plan for it out of the water, but I am sure there must have been one. JMO

I agree. Plus your plan addresses something we'd not really considered if TC and TA drove together, did he dig the hole the night before? Perhaps he just swung by to dig the hole that morning (less chance for someone to see it and less opportunities for anyone to fall in and be injured).

He worked an hour or so on the hole, stopped to drive across the road to pick up PG and off they went.

I can easily see that one or more might have encountered emotions they did not expect as they were planning. They just could not do what they thought they could in theory.

 

[Cool Cats]

I could be completely wrong, and often am, but I think the weak link in the group is probably PG. For my scenario, that the car was meant to be driven away, to be correct, someone would have needed to have driven with someone else. I think we can pretty much be sure that each CT drove, as we have heard that they drove both a pickup and flatbed. It seems likely to me that TA would have driven alone, leaving TC and PG to have ridden together, which makes sense, if we assume that TC was at the site of the hole that morning, which was across the road from PG, IIRC. So, again in my scenario, which, again, may be completely wrong, PG was meant to be the driver. For whatever reason, freezing up in fear and backing out, or something happening that left the car undriveable, I am not sure.

Even a plan doomed for failure is still a plan. I am almost certain that there was a plan of some type for the Kia to be removed from the scene. FFS, they had a frikkin Wile E Coyote anvil plan a month earlier, and googled how to get someone out of a house. Do any of us really think they just "forgot" about the car being at the scene of the crime? Not I. Something happened to blow their plan for it out of the water, but I am sure there must have been one. JMO

The 2 Twombly's blocked the road forcing the 2 women to turn onto a quiet side road which led to the 3 others waiting in ambush.

It does seem like one of the 3 others would have been tasked with driving the women's car away and the only reason not to do so would be that the car key could not be found.

However, these killers were stupid enough to leave 2 burner phones 8.5 miles away at the burial site so they could have planned to leave the car 3 miles off the main road where the ambush occurred.

2 Cents

 

[SteveP]

The 2 Cullums road together and blocked the road forcing the 2 women to turn onto a dirt road which led to the 3 others waiting in ambush.

It does seem like one of the 3 others would have been tasked with driving the women's car away and the only reason not to do so would be that the car key could not be found.

However, these killers were stupid enough to leave 2 burner phones 8.5 miles away at the burial site so they could have planned to leave the car 3 miles off the main road where the ambush occurred.

2 Cents

There are not two Cullums. Do you mean Twombly's? We were told that they drove two trucks,

 

[Cool Cats]

I agree. Plus your plan addresses something we'd not really considered if TC and TA drove together, did he dig the hole the night before? Perhaps he just swung by to dig the hole that morning (less chance for someone to see it and less opportunities for anyone to fall in and be injured).

He worked an hour or so on the hole, stopped to drive across the road to pick up PG and off they went.

I can easily see that one or more might have encountered emotions they did not expect as they were planning. They just could not do what they thought they could in theory.

According to Beasly, who owned the property, Tad Cullum started digging the hole on March 29th and possibly finished digging it the morning of March 30th.

 

[Cool Cats]

There are not two Cullums. Do you mean Twombly's? We were told that they drove two trucks,

Thanks. Corrected post.

 

[arielilane]

@BrianEntin

Court ended for Paul Grice. Victims family was emotional again — but no outbursts like last time. No bond. Grice said he will need a public defender and doesn’t have money to hire a lawyer.

Less talkative on the way out.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1785682408819314817

 

[charmingbetsy]

@BrianEntin

Court ended for Paul Grice. Victims family was emotional again — but no outbursts like last time. No bond. Grice said he will need a public defender and doesn’t have money to hire a lawyer.

Less talkative on the way out.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1785682408819314817

Oh, so Mr. Renounce My Citizenship now wants a public defender? Smh.

We're gonna be running out of public defenders for this crew since TA already has dibs on one of the two capital crimes teams. Looks like the state of Oklahoma is going to be hiring private attorneys for some of these goons. Your tax dollars at work.

 

[Error505]

Paul Grice will be the one to testify willingly against the other 4. I’m sure he’s been telling investigators all they want to know, even without an attorney present. Good!
MOO

 

[Chimera]

Oh, so Mr. Renounce My Citizenship now wants a public defender? Smh.

We're gonna be running out of public defenders for this crew since TA already has dibs on one of the two capital crimes teams. Looks like the state of Oklahoma is going to be hiring private attorneys for some of these goons. Your tax dollars at work.

Bbm.
Indeed.
Too bad they can't tell him, "Well since you've decided to renounce your citizenship you'll have to hire someone from outside the country, or represent yourself."
Omo.