OK OK, Veronica Butler 27 & Jilian Kelley 39, Vehicle Abandoned, Texas County, 30 Mar 2024

[nao]

The speed at which the car was discovered, coupled with the low amount of vehicle traffic, would make any tire tracks that much more valuable.

Moo . Bet there is a lot of old farm trucks that don't usually leave the farm around. But it would seem however it was done, they know those roads well...moo

 

[OldCop]

I do have some trouble with our conversations about a ruse call to VB to go to a new location. I think whoever did this is quite savvy and would know a voice or text message would be easily tracked.
Thus, for now, I can't include it in any scenario of what went down.

What if LE picked up a call from TA’s cell to VB? She could just say she was checking their eta so she could have the kids ready & waiting.

 

[Bree1950]

This is going to trouble my brain for a while...

Or the Perp or Perps was after one only and killed the witness. Both scenes in my brain are horrifying to think about! I’m sure they have went to any owners of land to check for wildlife cameras on their property. In the rural areas close to me, almost everyone has these!

 

[nao]

Moo..a lot of farms have excavation equipment, bodies could be buried deep...moo

 

[CuriousCricket]

Or the Perp or Perps was after one only and killed the witness. Both scenes in my brain are horrifying to think about! I’m sure they have went to any owners of land to check for wildlife cameras on their property. In the rural areas close to me, almost everyone has these!

With so much interest in gun ownership in the last 3-4 years, I am a bit surprised that the two women did not seem to have a firearm with them. Maybe because of having children in the car, but Veronica had been concerned enough to request police protection . . . Are the gun laws in Kansas and Oklahoma lax or tight? Since I see that area as "Old West", I'd think the percentage of gun owners is high.

 

[OldCop]

The speed at which the car was discovered, coupled with the low amount of vehicle traffic, would make any tire tracks that much more valuable.

I agree. I really hope they get enough to get some imprints. A lot of the locals have said it’s been dry and windy and those dirt roads are hard packed. Tire tracks disappear almost immediately.

 

[CuriousCricket]

Moo..a lot of farms have excavation equipment, bodies could be buried deep...moo

Wouldn't drones be able to detect disturbed earth? Are any drone searches being conducted? Do we know?

 

[nao]

Moo...hope they can bring in drones, they are very useful and fun too.
This is farm country and it is spring. So probably lots of clean up and dirt moving going on..moo

 

[MassGuy]

Or the Perp or Perps was after one only and killed the witness. Both scenes in my brain are horrifying to think about! I’m sure they have went to any owners of land to check for wildlife cameras on their property. In the rural areas close to me, almost everyone has these!

Yeah, that's the only option I'm seriously considering. I think it's overwhelmingly likely that Veronica was the target, and Jillian was collateral damage. There was no way they could leave her alive in this scenario.

 

[whitelilac]

That area is bordered by three other states, including NM and Colorado. Could the perps have gone in one of those directions to a wilderness area?
Seems risky to dispose of the bodies somewhere in the immediate area.
This is so horrific....I keep thinking of the panic and anguish Pastor Kelley and his friend felt on seeing all those cops and the empty Kia.

 

[nao]

Moo...it is possible the women just got unlucky and ran into some random yahoos.
But the car got stopped and the women taken, very quickly and efficiently. Plans on what to do with the women are probably well thought out also. The perps would know there was going to be 2 people in car, because of supervised visits. That is if it is to do with custody. Moo

 

[nhmemorymaker]

What if LE picked up a call from TA’s cell to VB? She could just say she was checking their eta so she could have the kids ready & waiting.

True. I actually assumed this call would have been made.
But wont any tracking done, be able to get the actual verbal transmission?

 

[cuffem]

I also cannot fathom why these women would stop at this location. I keep think the car had to have been placed there, but if so, why? There are plenty of more rural places to hide (or sink) a car. If it was placed there, the perps wanted it to be found.

I agree, this is a diversion to the actual location of whatever happened. Look here not over there kind of thing.
Doubt the women are anywhere near where the car was found. IMO
All speculation.

 

[nao]

Moo. Don't you need to stay stationary if you are in a place that has spotty cell reception?

 

[MassGuy]

Moo...it is possible the women just got unlucky and ran into some random yahoos.
But the car got stopped and the women taken, very quickly and efficiently. Plans on what to do with the women are probably well thought out also. The perps would know there was going to be 2 people in car, because of supervised visits. That is if it is to do with custody. Moo

That's of course possible, but a double kidnapping in broad daylight under these circumstances, just doesn't seem to have any precedent. I agree with your second part though, this would have been planned in advance, and they knew exactly what they were going to do with the women.

What hurts here is the rural are in which this occurred, which limits the opportunity to recover video evidence. What helps however, is the fact that you have a solid starting point with which to look. People and devices talk, and physical evidence can also help.

 

[NDreu]

Do we have this substantiated. This sequence is quite important, so hope you can add the link.

I guess the reason I find this so important is..... why would so much LE show up for a "simple" 911 call about a stranded vehicle. Or did the 911 include much more??????

I am pretty sure we have had it substantiated that there was extensive LE presence when the husbands showed up.
but best state imo....

Believe this was reported by local WCOCO out of OKC on air report yesterday or day before and video was posted here previously. I believe it was a person who drove by but didn't stop but did call 911. I believe this was also reported by NewsNation. The person calling 911 mentioned the broken window so perhaps that is why LE came quickly and I'm not sure what exactly a "simple" 911 call might be that you are referring to.

All 911 calls are vetted and screened ime at multiple levels and so if a broken window was reported I would think this would result in immediate action and would not be 'simple'. But, in areas with limited traffic and poor cell service I would think that LE would respond to any abandoned vehicle quickly.

We know also I believe that LE was on site at the car by 10:30 am. I don't believe we know the arrival time of the two men (fiance and husband) from KS but my recollection was that they said publicly that LE was on site when they arrived at the abandoned vehicle.

 

[whitelilac]

That's of course possible, but a double kidnapping in broad daylight under these circumstances, just doesn't seem to have any precedent. I agree with your second part though, this would have been planned in advance, and they knew exactly what they were going to do with the women.

What hurts here is the rural are in which this occurred, which limits the opportunity to recover video evidence. What helps however, is the fact that you have a solid starting point with which to look. People and devices talk, and physical evidence can also help.

What also helps is that there is strong motive here, given the history. This isn't a case, in all probability, where two women disappear out of the blue with no clue as to why and how.

 

[NDreu]

A post up thread said the car was found by police at 10:30 am, a little over an hour after the women left. We can assume that is around 9:15 am. The trip was about 45 min.

So they should have arrived about 10 am.

30 minutes later, car was found.. not enough time past expected showing for the grandmother or whoever to be concerned and report it.

Also, not enough time for something to have happened elsewhere than the car being brought back.


Whatever happened, happened there.

We know the woman who called 911 called a little after 10 am.

I’d say about 35 min into their drive, they were taken.

Kind of a crazy move in broad daylight to grab two women and their phones without anyone seeing.

MOO

There is typically a maximum waiting period for exchanges of children before the waiting party can depart.

I do wonder what that waiting period might have been in this case and whether any action was taken by the waiting party to sound an alarm or makes some calls about a potential 'no show'?

I also very much wonder if there was in fact a vehicle waiting a 4 Corners with 2 children inside at any point that am.

 

[kccorona]

I also very much wonder if there was in fact a vehicle waiting a 4 Corners with 2 children inside at any point that am.

This is a good point I hadn’t considered before. If may not help with the current investigation to find the women, but definitely seems it could play a part in future evidence and case building, in my opinion.

 

[NDreu]

No new news here imo but good to see local stations are staying on top of OCBI:

Foul play suspected in the disappearance of 2 Kansas women whose vehicle was found in Oklahoma

Foul play is suspected in the disappearance of two Kansas women whose vehicle was found abandoned in the Oklahoma Panhandle last weekend, authorities said Friday.

www.koco.com