OK OK, Veronica Butler 27 & Jilian Kelley 39, Vehicle Abandoned, Texas County, 30 Mar 2024

[doublestop]

Can we rule out road rage/carjacking?

Road rage seems unlikely. There is so little traffic in that area, so if they were driving slowly or whatever, just go around them. I can't think the women would intentionally do something to make someone mad.

 

[Knox]

Can we rule out road rage/carjacking?

Not absolutely - but most car jackers don't leave the car and take bodies do they?

 

[shefner]

If the women left home around 9:30am and it took them around 40 minutes or so to arrive at the location where the car was found, that leaves a small window of time for the incident to happen. Authorities were reportedly on the scene by 10:30am.
Is this timeline correct, as we know it currently?

 

[PommyMommy]

If the women left home around 9:30am and it took them around 40 minutes or so to arrive at the location where the car was found, that leaves a small window of time for the incident to happen. Authorities were reportedly on the scene by 10:30am.
Is this timeline correct, as we know it currently?

According to the podcast at the link below, the investigative reporter at Crime Online says they are being told they left about 9:00 a.m. She doesn't cite a source for that, though.

Missing Mom and Preacher’s Wife Vanish, Picking up Kids: Car Just Found – Crime Online

• They left at 9:00 a.m. to pick up the children.
• The female witness who called 911 saw the vehicle shortly after 10 a.m.
• LE was on the scene by 10:30 a.m.

 

[shefner]

According to the podcast at the link below, the investigative reporter at Crime Online says they are being told they left about 9:00 a.m. She doesn't cite a source for that, though.

Missing Mom and Preacher’s Wife Vanish, Picking up Kids: Car Just Found – Crime Online

• They left at 9:00 a.m. to pick up the children.
• The female witness who called 911 saw the vehicle shortly after 10 a.m.
• LE was on the scene by 10:30 a.m.

So that leaves about 15-25 minutes of time, working with the information we currently have.
That's not a lot of time if the incident occurred elsewhere and the vehicle had to be moved to it's recovered location.
But it's a lifetime if the incident happened at the scene. Especially if it was planned, which appears likely.

 

[PawneeDew]

There didn’t need to be a call about changing the meet up place.

If Veronica and Jilian were headed for the Four Corners, they would have left Hwy 56 (which looks to me what road they’d have been on since leaving Hugoton) and gotten on 95 south just outside of Elkhart. That is the most direct way to the Four Corners spot; in my opinion, they were right where they should have been to get where they were going.

If you look at the map, what appears to be Four Corners is at the junction of 95 and the east-west Hwy 412, which looks like a much more well-traveled road.

The spot where the car was found, and that @OldCop has marked on his map—95 and Road L—is one of the few spots between Elkhart and Hwy 412 where a person they expected to meet at Hwy 412/Four Corners could have been waiting, maybe flagged them down or set up an ambush.

The spot is south, past the school, and north of the next set of buildings where there might be people around.

Every day is too long without information.

Do we know which way the car was facing?

 

[otto]

Do we know which way the car was facing?

I've been trying to figure that out too. We see police vehicles on a road that runs along side hwy 95.

Was the car in location A or B? I thought location B at first, but that would mean their car got turned around going back towards Road L. Thoughts?

He was driving to get groceries - Elkhart? Driving North?
Video: www.kake.com

 

[otto]

If it's location A, then ... was there a baricade, like a detour sign, on Hwy 95? What caused them to leave the highway? Were they then ambushed? Can a gun smash a car window? Was the window shot, doors opened, women dragged to another vehicle and it's all over in 2 minutes?

I don't think they are alive. It sounds like they were injured in or near the car. It sounds planned enough to include careful planning about permanent disappearance of bodies.

 

[PommyMommy]

Do we know which way the car was facing?

FWIW, at about the 28 min mark in Nancy's podcast, it's said that the car was on the right side of the road.

Link to podcast is at the bottom of the article:
Missing Mom and Preacher’s Wife Vanish, Picking up Kids: Car Just Found – Crime Online

 

[otto]

FWIW, at about the 28 min mark in Nancy's podcast, it's said that the car was on the right side of the road.

Link to podcast is at the bottom of the article:
Missing Mom and Preacher’s Wife Vanish, Picking up Kids: Car Just Found – Crime Online

He was driving North to get groceries, the video was taken from the right side of the car, maybe by a passenger ???

 

[otto]

I think the goal was to ambush the two women, transfer them from their vehicle to a second vehicle as fast as possible, by any means necessary including injury, and to get out of the area as invisibly as possible.

Some comments upthread suggest that a horse trailer might have been used. The reason that this doesn't work for me is that whoever did this wanted to get out of there as fast as possible. Horse trailers require manoeuvring and cautious speed. It's contrary to fleeing the scene of the crime when speed is a priority.

A truck bed with a tarp, or a truck bed cover, is simpler and faster. They can pull over after leaving the actual crime scene (at hwy 95 and Road L) and better secure the kidnapped women before taking them to where they are today.

 

[otto]

Regarding the doors of the women's vehicle being open in the video footage (at 36 seconds), I guess open doors at a crime scene doesn't mean that the doors were open when the car was found.

A broken car window has been reported in the news. If the video is from the right, and the women were driving South, does that mean that the passenger window was shattered? Does that mean that people on the highway could see the broken window because the vehicle was pulled off the highway onto the side road pointed in the opposite direction?

 

[nao]

Moo..they could of been ambushed at that side road cut off at hwy 95, ,(little side road where their car was found) or ambushed where Road L crosses hwy 95. Was their car pointing north or south?

 

[otto]

Moo..they could of been ambushed at that side road cut off at hwy 95, ,(little side road where their car was found) or ambushed where Road L crosses hwy 95. Was their car pointing north or south?

Veronica and Jilian were driving South. Video-man is driving North. Veronica's car is to the right (East); on the passenger side of Video-man. He would see the passenger side of Veronica's car as it was facing the opposite direction (per planned route) of Video-man.

It seems like Veronica and Jilian were directed off Hwy 95 to the side road, where they were ambushed before they arrived at Road L.

 

[otto]

I sometimes wonder what it is like for the perpetrators of a crime, like this complicated kidnapping, to read what we write. They know the answers, and here we are trying to figure out why Veronica and Jilian left the highway, how they were stopped, what type of vehicle they were put into.

It always comes down to motive, means, opportunity. Means can sometimes be tricky with contract disappearances.

 

[NDreu]

If this was pre planned and detailed to stage a random abduction, I could see TA taking the kids to Four Corners, with her cellphone in tow and waiting like she is supposed to.

Or, she might have gone and left the children at home or she might have sent her boyfriend as he is an authorized person for drop off as well.

I really wonder if anyone ever showed up at the drop off site?

 

[Megnut]

How could the abductor(s) be certain they could stop the victim's car?

Bogus traffic stop? Illegal police bar?

Women didn't realize what was happening until it was too late? Known assailant, recognized by V? Locked doors no match for a dummy billyclub?

Alternately, two abductors, two vehicles. Combination pit maneuver and...

Whatever happened, it likely happened fast. Maybe forced into a trunk, dealt with at a secluded location.

Granted I watch too many crime shows, but something caused them to change course/stop...

JMO

 

[NDreu]

I've been trying to figure that out too. We see police vehicles on a road that runs along side hwy 95.

Was the car in location A or B? I thought location B at first, but that would mean their car got turned around going back towards Road L. Thoughts?

He was driving to get groceries - Elkhart? Driving North?
Video: www.kake.com

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Do you know which of the vertical roads might be the “correction line”? I believe the local that first saw the vehicle referred to a gravel road off of the correction line.

This was a new term to me so I went looking and found this:

Correction Lines are designed to adjust for the curvature of the earth, so roads north of a correction line and roads south of a correction line may not line up. When reading a map, determine if the location or destination is above or below the Correction line.

 

[NDreu]

How could the abductor(s) be certain they could stop the victim's car?

Bogus traffic stop? Illegal police bar?

Women didn't realize what was happening until it was too late? Known assailant, recognized by V? Locked doors no match for a dummy billyclub?

Alternately, two abductors, two vehicles. Combination pit maneuver and...

Whatever happened, it likely happened fast. Maybe forced into a trunk, dealt with at a secluded location.

Granted I watch too many crime shows, but something caused them to change course/stop...

JMO

Perhaps they were simply run off the road and pushed into the area where the vehicle was found. A large pickup or perhaps even a pickup with a trailer would easily be able to pull off such a maneuver imo.

We haven’t seen a close up of the vehicle to see if there was any damage.

Or, perhaps they were effectively passed on the road, perp or perps flash a gun and force them over the side of the road?

Many scenarios can be created with either one or two perp vehicles. All we know is drivers side window was broken and the vehicle ended up on the gravel road portion off the main road.

Moo

 

[shefner]

I wonder what the ground is like out there. Looks like the weather had been dry for several days with temperatures in the mid-60’s on Saturday. Would there be shoe prints or tire tracks that might aid authorities in knowing if there was one or more perpetrators? Were there tracks left that might help determine if there was only one get-away vehicle and if it was a truck with trailer?
With the large level of police presence at the scene, I hope such potential evidence wasn’t compromised.

I like @otto ’s thoughts concerning a horse trailer being used in the commission of this crime. They can be challenging to maneuver and more noticeable on the roadways.

Even in a rural area, it’s still risky to abduct two adults in broad daylight.