Yes that could be another possibility. It just seems to me to take such care in getting the baby out as a whole being. I have even thought about these woman who can't have a baby, there have been cases where woman have killed the mother to take the baby. I wonder if they were able to determine the cause of death for baby doe in 1976.
Identified! PA - White Haven, 'Beth Doe' & Unborn Baby 169UFPA, 16-22, Dec'76 - #2 - Evelyn Colon
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Also wondering if any info. about the baby's father, could be gleaned from her dna?
I.e. could the baby's dna markers be matched with any inmate's dna?
velocitygirl
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could this http://doenetwork.org/cases/93ufct.html be Roxann Deihl? easy hitchhiking distance.
Not sure if I read this or was just thinking this, something about not being able to get usable DNA from the baby when they exhumed in 2007. Back in 1976 I don't think they had the technology where DNA is concerned. Still I would like to know if in 1976 if they were able to determine how the baby died. The baby was described as perfectly healthy baby girl. But if they found marks around the mouth to suggest the baby was smothered, at least it would be known that the person who killed Beth wanted the baby to die as well. I have to wonder if this person wanted this baby but didn't really know what they were doing the baby died of either lack of blood supply from the mother or was taken out of her and then had trouble breathing and then died.
Do you know if they have a dental chart for this girl? The gap between the two front teeth caught my eye. The only thing is I can't remember how old they think Beth was, this girl was in 10th grade. I wonder what the circumstances were in her case. Her features would seem like a good match.
Richrd
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Beth's Front Teeth Sketch:
http://www.websleuths.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=57119&d=1408383642&thumb=4
or
http://www.websleuths.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=57119&d=1408383642
[Sketch By Richrd, with CL = CenterLine]
Beth's X-Rays via Apearn: http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sh...69UFPA-16-22-Dec-76-2&p=10123026#post10123026
http://www.simplestepsdental.com/i/D/DNTKnowUnivNumSys.gif
The matching Caries / Decay of Front Left Teeth 9, and 10
may be recognizable in a Close-Up Photo.
In My Opinion:
Beginning with her Upper Right Last Tooth:
1 N/Natural, 2N, 3N, 4 F/Filling, 5N, 6N, 7F, 8N, [Maxillary / Upper CenterLine],
9N Caries/Decay/Hole on Left/Outward Side,
10N Caries/Decay/Hole on Right/Inward Side,
11N, 12F, 13N, 14F, 15F, 16N,
Down to her Lower Left Last Tooth:
17N, 18F, 19 A/Missing with Healed Socket, 20N, 21N, 22N, 23N, 24N,
[Mandibular / Lower CenterLine], 25N, 26N, 27N, 28N, 29N,
30 P/Recent Removal with UNhealed Socket,
31N Caries/Decay/Fractured, & Painful, 32A Missing with Healed Socket
Clarifying: http://books.google.com/books?id=c9...page&q=Dental Codes - Antemortem loss&f=false
A = Antemortem Loss - Missing with Healed Socket
F = Filling - Inlay - Onlay - Veneer
N = Natural - No Filling
P = Postmortem Loss - Recent Removal with UNhealed Socket
Dental Sleuths: Diastema / Gap Toothed #8 & #9 ???
http://www.websleuths.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=57119&d=1408383642&thumb=4
or
http://www.websleuths.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=57119&d=1408383642
[Sketch By Richrd, with CL = CenterLine]
Beth's X-Rays via Apearn: http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sh...69UFPA-16-22-Dec-76-2&p=10123026#post10123026
http://www.simplestepsdental.com/i/D/DNTKnowUnivNumSys.gif
The matching Caries / Decay of Front Left Teeth 9, and 10
may be recognizable in a Close-Up Photo.
In My Opinion:
Beginning with her Upper Right Last Tooth:
1 N/Natural, 2N, 3N, 4 F/Filling, 5N, 6N, 7F, 8N, [Maxillary / Upper CenterLine],
9N Caries/Decay/Hole on Left/Outward Side,
10N Caries/Decay/Hole on Right/Inward Side,
11N, 12F, 13N, 14F, 15F, 16N,
Down to her Lower Left Last Tooth:
17N, 18F, 19 A/Missing with Healed Socket, 20N, 21N, 22N, 23N, 24N,
[Mandibular / Lower CenterLine], 25N, 26N, 27N, 28N, 29N,
30 P/Recent Removal with UNhealed Socket,
31N Caries/Decay/Fractured, & Painful, 32A Missing with Healed Socket
Clarifying: http://books.google.com/books?id=c9...page&q=Dental Codes - Antemortem loss&f=false
A = Antemortem Loss - Missing with Healed Socket
F = Filling - Inlay - Onlay - Veneer
N = Natural - No Filling
P = Postmortem Loss - Recent Removal with UNhealed Socket
Dental Sleuths: Diastema / Gap Toothed #8 & #9 ???
Roxann Deihl does not have a thread on here, at least I can't find one, I'm not sure how to start one. Even though I think the age is off, it would be interesting to compare her case to Beth's, considering Stroudsburg is not that far from White Haven traveling the interstate. There is an article in the Pocono Record of this girl in 1972 hanging upside down in a playground. You have to pay to see it though. If anything, exploring may be able to help her brother out and maybe they could possibly add her to Beth's rule out list.
Redux
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I've started a thread for Roxann in Missing But Not Forgotten - 1970's. Here's the link:
http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sh...roudsburg-July-5-1975&p=11453263#post11453263
cvaldez1975
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maybe the baby was killed by accident?
This mp does not look like Beth Doe, in the pic. she looks blonde, but is listed as having brown hair, also thinking of the straw used to 'pack" Beth Doe and the horse stable, where this mp was last seen..
http://www.nampn.org/cases/thorne_edna.html
rbbm
"Missing Since: June 24, 1975 from Philadelphia, Philadelphia County, Pennsylvania
Classification: Non Family Abduction
Date Of Birth: February 25, 1960
Age: 15
Height: 5'1" (155 cm)
Weight: 105 lbs (48 kg)
Hair Color: Brown
Eye Color: Brown
Race: White
Gender: Female
Case Number: 25-054798
Details of Disappearance
Edna was last seen at a relative's residence on June 24, 1975. She was last seen leaving the horse stable. "
http://www.nampn.org/cases/thorne_edna.html
rbbm
"Missing Since: June 24, 1975 from Philadelphia, Philadelphia County, Pennsylvania
Classification: Non Family Abduction
Date Of Birth: February 25, 1960
Age: 15
Height: 5'1" (155 cm)
Weight: 105 lbs (48 kg)
Hair Color: Brown
Eye Color: Brown
Race: White
Gender: Female
Case Number: 25-054798
Details of Disappearance
Edna was last seen at a relative's residence on June 24, 1975. She was last seen leaving the horse stable. "
apearn
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I can't find the message but I had contacted a FB page for Edna a while back and, if I remember correctly, they said she dyed her hair blonde so that was why it was listed as brown.
She has DNA listed as Status:Sample submitted - Tests complete in NAMUS.
carbuff
Well-Known Member
She sure looks like a bleach blonde. Her hair doesn't really match her complexion, and I think the rest of her features do resemble Beth.
Never thought to look but Beth is on Wiki, having trouble accessing the different articles though.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beth_Doe
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beth_Doe
Thanks for the handy link, keeping this particular info. in mind.
"Although she is believed to have been white, she may have had ancestors who were Asian or Native American, as well as those with traits from European countries such as the Mediterranean, Silesia, Poland and the Czech Republic"
Wonder if this couple have ever been questioned about Beth Doe?
http://www.nydailynews.com/news/justice-story/killing-moms-stealing-babies-article-1.1379460
" A tipster told Lt. Bob Reginbal of Yakima, Wash., that a local woman, Jackie Sue Schut, 33, had killed a woman in Athens, Ala., while stealing her baby. Reginbal called Athens police, who confirmed the cold case there.
Schut fit the description of the killer — stout, bespectacled. And she was easy to find. She was serving a 10-year prison sentence for molesting a female relative. Her estranged husband, Harold Schut, 40, was on the lam for the same assault.
Police issued a bulletin, and Schut was soon arrested in Reno. He was itching to yap about his wife. He said Jackie was behind the murders of Clemons in Alabama, Jones in Houston and other women in as many as six cities.
Their big idea, he said, was to steal babies and sell them for $2,000."
http://www.nydailynews.com/news/justice-story/killing-moms-stealing-babies-article-1.1379460
" A tipster told Lt. Bob Reginbal of Yakima, Wash., that a local woman, Jackie Sue Schut, 33, had killed a woman in Athens, Ala., while stealing her baby. Reginbal called Athens police, who confirmed the cold case there.
Schut fit the description of the killer — stout, bespectacled. And she was easy to find. She was serving a 10-year prison sentence for molesting a female relative. Her estranged husband, Harold Schut, 40, was on the lam for the same assault.
Police issued a bulletin, and Schut was soon arrested in Reno. He was itching to yap about his wife. He said Jackie was behind the murders of Clemons in Alabama, Jones in Houston and other women in as many as six cities.
Their big idea, he said, was to steal babies and sell them for $2,000."
annemc2
her name is Suzanne Marie Sevakis
Wow - dotr. That woman is downright terrifying! How evil.
Cannot recall offhand if this mp has been suggested or not..
Wonder what kind of gun/bullet was used to shoot Beth Doe?
http://www.doenetwork.org/cases/933dfmd.html
"Betty Irene Redmond
Missing since September 26, 1976 from Pasadena, Anne Arundel County, Maryland.
Classification: Involuntary
Vital Statistics
Date Of Birth: August 23, 1951
Age at Time of Disappearance: 25 years old
Height and Weight at Time of Disappearance: 5'3" (160 cm.); 110 lbs. (50 kg.)
Distinguishing Characteristics: Black hair; brown eyes.
Marks, Scars: No scars, tattoos or identifying marks.
Medical Conditions: She did take medication for a nervous condition.
DNA: Available
AKA: Betty McFadden; "Bimmy". "
"Redmond was married and a mother of two minor children. It was alleged that Mrs. Redmond went to bed and when her husband awoke, his wife was missing along with her car and a .22 caliber handgun. The car was recovered at BWI Airport. Redmond has not contacted relatives since and foul play is suspected."
Wonder what kind of gun/bullet was used to shoot Beth Doe?
http://www.doenetwork.org/cases/933dfmd.html
"Betty Irene Redmond
Missing since September 26, 1976 from Pasadena, Anne Arundel County, Maryland.
Classification: Involuntary
Vital Statistics
Date Of Birth: August 23, 1951
Age at Time of Disappearance: 25 years old
Height and Weight at Time of Disappearance: 5'3" (160 cm.); 110 lbs. (50 kg.)
Distinguishing Characteristics: Black hair; brown eyes.
Marks, Scars: No scars, tattoos or identifying marks.
Medical Conditions: She did take medication for a nervous condition.
DNA: Available
AKA: Betty McFadden; "Bimmy". "
"Redmond was married and a mother of two minor children. It was alleged that Mrs. Redmond went to bed and when her husband awoke, his wife was missing along with her car and a .22 caliber handgun. The car was recovered at BWI Airport. Redmond has not contacted relatives since and foul play is suspected."
Just throwing this out there, in case i cannot find link again, but any chance the letters on Beth's hand, WSR, relates to murders elsewhere,ie Waverly-Shell Rock, or to the high school?
http://iowacoldcases.org/case-summaries/julie-benning/
http://iowacoldcases.org/case-summaries/julie-benning/
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