Pat Brown compares Lisa case to other cases.

[brit1981]

If I disappeared I would think my human rights had been abused if someone with a masters degree declared themselves a criminal profiler and went on TV encouraging everyone to belive I was dead and murdered by my partner because statistically that is most likely.
If detective work was just a case of looking up some statistics it would be a lot easier. Yes most crimes turn out to be domestic, but some do not and these are the ones that can be difficult to solve because they is no suspect to look at, it could be any random.
most female murder victims are murdered by their partners or ex partners, but that does not mean Ted Bundy was innocent, yet according to the statistics these young women (not all of whom were found) should have been killed by a boyfriend.
Most rapes are carried out by partners or ex partners, but does that mean we should nto believe any women claimign a stranger raped her because it goes against the statistics?

 

[OEJ]

Statistics are used by profilers to give a possibly more fruitful avenue of investigation. That's all. In my view, Pat Brown is one of the best self-taught profilers around. I think she's good.

 

[brit1981]

Statistics are used by profilers to give a possibly more fruitful avenue of investigation. That's all. In my view, Pat Brown is one of the best self-taught profilers around. I think she's good.

I disagree, and I think it is generous to even call her a profiler. She admits that she used books to teach herself profiling, so she did not actually read proper journals and articles. I have not heard of one case she helped solve, or even one case where she has actually been employed by LE to aid in a case. Correct me if I am wrong but is she not the woman who claimed Jessica ridgeways family were involved, despite the police saying they were not?
To be honest Brown just comes across to me as a rather sad housewife who wants to be like people she sees on CSI and does not actual work in criminal investigations any more than ay person commenting on a forum does.

If anyone can actually tell me of a case where she has been employed by LE to assist in a case I will be happy to review my opinion.

 

[brit1981]

http://madeleinemythsexposed.pbwork...the Disappearance of Madeleine McCann (UPDATE

The above is about a different case (madeleine mccann), but it is a detailed analysis of pat browns writings about the mccann case and provides primary sources that demonstrate Brown was presenting inaccurate material.

 

[Whisperer]

I know for a fact that people have "gut" feelings about a crime and working around criminals. Those that don't get hurt, injured or fooled more times than you would care to count. It takes a certain kind of person to "get it". You either have ir or you don't.

Of the book learning you can muster doesn't matter a hoot if you can't tell or recognize perps for what they are. Gut instinct can't be taught. I'd much prefer to be working around somebody like Pat Brown than others who have no clue on what is going on and want to focus on the wildest and oddest chance that a fluke happened.

In this particular case, we have no evidence of a break-in. We have a cadaver dog hitting in the house and a set of parents that refuse to cooperate.

This doesn't even require having gut instinct to solve. It is just what it appears to be.

 

[brit1981]

I know for a fact that people have "gut" feelings about a crime and working around criminals. Those that don't get hurt, injured or fooled more times than you would care to count. It takes a certain kind of person to "get it". You either have ir or you don't.

Of the book learning you can muster doesn't matter a hoot if you can't tell or recognize perps for what they are. Gut instinct can't be taught. I'd much prefer to be working around somebody like Pat Brown than others who have no clue on what is going on and want to focus on the wildest and oddest chance that a fluke happened.

In this particular case, we have no evidence of a break-in. We have a cadaver dog hitting in the house and a set of parents that refuse to cooperate.

This doesn't even require having gut instinct to solve. It is just what it appears to be.

Er but Pat Brown does not have experience working with criminals or criminal investigation. She is a housewife who read a few popular science books and declared herself an expert because in america anyone is allowed to call themselves a criminal profiler, and now goes on TV. She ,is not anyone who actually has anything to with criminal investigations.

I have also never seen a case where brown's gut instinct has been proven right. Did the police not arrest someone for jessica ridgeways murder, and despite browns claims it was the parents, that person was not the parents? I

Can anyone actually name a case where brown has been employed by LE and where her gut instincts have solved a case?

And far as I am aware the LE have released very little information, even to brown (shock horror, do they not know who she is), so the facts people are putting out here may be anything but, as the media can more or less print any rubbish they want under their interpretation of free speech. This means people can spew spite all they want, but cannot rely on the media for actual facts. One would think people might have learnt their lesson from the casey anthony case were the information given out pretrial did not match the facts given to the jury, but apparently not. Remember how the media went on about h ow the expert had said there were incredibly high levels of chloroform, the highest he had ever seen, and then when asked this in the trial he said this was not the case at all.

 

[Whisperer]

Isn't this thread supposed to be about Lisa Irwin and pat browns ideas about the case? All I ever heard her say was that this MAY be a case of Munchausen by Proxy. I can't explain my reasoning on this but I tend to agree that may be a factor. Oftentimes people who work around or with criminals get a hunch...and that is all she is given you. To continue to pick her apart is not going anywhere. She knows a heck of a lot more than most of us concerning psychopaths and criminals.

Most experts will tell you that they believe one or both parents are involved in Lisa's death. I understand there are some that don't choose to believe them. C'est la vie!

 

[Whisperer]

Pat Brown has interviewed killers. When people can study their records and read about their behavior and have access to the criminal themselves, you can learn something about profiling. In fact, the FBI from Quantico have also studied the files of certain types and asked for inmates to talk to. Where do you think they learned how to profile?

I get the impression this is a matter of killing the messenger. DB and Ii are the problem with this case...not Pat Brown. If the purpose of making her hard work look bad is the point then I guess this thread is serving the purpose.

 

[brit1981]

This thread is about pat brown and her comparing this case to others. The fact that she is not a criminologist, and is only allowed to call herself a profiler because they is a giant loophole in the law which allows anyone to call themselves a profiler (i.e we could call ourselves profilers), is relevant to a thread about her opinions. She is not anythign to do with criminal investigations, she read a few pop books and then goes on TV spouting her opinions (although that seems to have diminished) she does not know anything about killers and criminals. I read one of her comments where she tells people to see if any pyschopaths living locally are behaving abnormally, anther one where she tells people that the Norwegian killer was not a terrorist because she had the idea that terrorists only worked in groups!!

And still no-one has been able to name one case which she has solved, or where she has been employed by the police on an active case. Her profiling seems to be read a few basic popular books, then spout off opinions and tell any actual professionals who disagree that they know nothing.

 

[Whisperer]

Pat Brown has way more experience than most do and yes, she is entitled to call herself a profiler just as the people who came out to prison to read and talk to criminals. It is not an exact science.

If any of you studied as hard as she, interviewed criminals and studied criminal behavior, yes, you may be considered a pretty good candidate for being able to profile.

Pat Brown is not a crime solver. She has taught some le how to profile criminals. She has studied behavior. Apparently some don't like her and don't care about her education and experience.

Perhaps more effort here should be given in studying jeremy and db's behavior. They are the ones needing to be profiled. So is the effort here to discredit Pat Brown and say she doesn't know what she is talking about? Are people taking offense to Pat Brown suggesting the parents are involved? Why kill the messinger?

Pat Brown must hit some's nerves because there is great effort placed in trying to show she is an incompetent.

Bottom line: A profiler is not a crime solver. They can assist those who do.

 

[4Jacy]

Pat Brown has way more experience than most do and yes, she is entitled to call herself a profiler just as the people who came out to prison to read and talk to criminals. It is not an exact science.

If any of you studied as hard as she, interviewed criminals and studied criminal behavior, yes, you may be considered a pretty good candidate for being able to profile.

Pat Brown is not a crime solver. She has taught some le how to profile criminals. She has studied behavior. Apparently some don't like her and don't care about her education and experience.

Perhaps more effort here should be given in studying jeremy and db's behavior. They are the ones needing to be profiled. So is the effort here to discredit Pat Brown and say she doesn't know what she is talking about? Are people taking offense to Pat Brown suggesting the parents are involved? Why kill the messinger?

Pat Brown must hit some's nerves because there is great effort placed in trying to show she is an incompetent.

Bottom line: A profiler is not a crime solver. They can assist those who do.

BBM

Whisp, thank you for your post (on many levels), especially the bolded above.

 

[redheadedgal]

we could call ourselves profilers? i don't think so lol... i doubt anyone here has the education and experience, has completed similar research or had access to the police files necessary to do so...

 

[RANCH]

we could call ourselves profilers? i don't think so lol... i doubt anyone here has the education and experience, has completed similar research or had access to the police files necessary to do so...

Your right. And no one here has been a talking head on the Nancy Grace show either.

How does Pat Brown get access to police files that the general public can't? Do you have a link for that or is it your opinion?

 

[RANCH]

Pat Brown has way more experience than most do and yes, she is entitled to call herself a profiler just as the people who came out to prison to read and talk to criminals. It is not an exact science.

If any of you studied as hard as she, interviewed criminals and studied criminal behavior, yes, you may be considered a pretty good candidate for being able to profile.

Pat Brown is not a crime solver. She has taught some le how to profile criminals. She has studied behavior. Apparently some don't like her and don't care about her education and experience.

Perhaps more effort here should be given in studying jeremy and db's behavior. They are the ones needing to be profiled. So is the effort here to discredit Pat Brown and say she doesn't know what she is talking about? Are people taking offense to Pat Brown suggesting the parents are involved? Why kill the messinger?

Pat Brown must hit some's nerves because there is great effort placed in trying to show she is an incompetent.

Bottom line: A profiler is not a crime solver. They can assist those who do.

I have no idea what kind of education and experience Pat Brown has that qualifies her as a criminal profiler. All I know about her is seeing her on the Nancy Grace show.

I don't see a "great effort" to show that Pat Brown is incompetent. I do see some people asking about her track record and qualifications. Why would that be showing that it "hit some's nerves"? Since no one has provided the links showing Pat Brown's record in assisting in solving a crime, I would suggest that the questioning of her record as a profiler may be what's hitting on some nerves. MOO.

 

[brit1981]

we could call ourselves profilers? i don't think so lol... i doubt anyone here has the education and experience, has completed similar research or had access to the police files necessary to do so...

Yes, legally in the US anyone can call themselves a profiler. There are no rules about education or experience. That is why Pat Brown a woman with joust a masters, no actual experience of LE investigations has been able to present herself a profiler on the basis of reading some popular science type books. She would not be able to call herself a criminologist, or criminal psychologist for instance. And I do not think she has access to all of those police files in the Irwin case.

 

[brit1981]

my replies in bold

Pat Brown has way more experience than most do and yes, she is entitled to call herself a profiler just as the people who came out to prison to read and talk to criminals. It is not an exact science.

Only because legally in the US anyone can call themselves a profiler. And please can someeone provide a link or citation t where she has actually been employed by LE to work on a case. So far her supporters have refused to do this.

If any of you studied as hard as she, interviewed criminals and studied criminal behavior, yes, you may be considered a pretty good candidate for being able to profile.

she did a masters, and read some pop books. That does not qualify as studying hard, it i just insulting to real criminologists to think this qualifies her as an expert

Pat Brown is not a crime solver. She has taught some le how to profile criminals. She has studied behavior. Apparently some don't like her and don't care about her education and experience.

Can you provide evidence of what LEs have actually employed her as a teacher, and can you provide links to demonstrate she has a proper education qualifying her as a "profiler" not just a masters and somer pop book reading.

Perhaps more effort here should be given in studying jeremy and db's behavior. They are the ones needing to be profiled. So is the effort here to discredit Pat Brown and say she doesn't know what she is talking about? Are people taking offense to Pat Brown suggesting the parents are involved? Why kill the mesringer?

There is no effort to discredit Brown, it is easy she does it herself. People are taking offense because she is in their opinion abusing the loophole that allows anyone to call themselves a profiler and then damaging investigations by going on TV claiming to be a expert and telling people sheknows the truth.

Pat Brown must hit some's nerves because there is great effort placed in trying to show she is an incompetent.
Again no effort needed. And I think it is those who have pointed out she is not a real expert that have hit a nerve. notice how Notice how her supporters claim others are discredit her, but fail to actually provide evidence to her credit.

Bottom line: A profiler is not a crime solver. They can assist those who do.

Well we all know s he does not solve crimes, so far no-one has proved a shred of evidence that she has ever been employed to assist in an investigation. Can anyone provide any evidence to support the claim tha she has assisted LE?

 

[nursebeeme]

this is not a thread to argue. The opening post/topic of this thread has been exhausted and this thread will be closed.