Peru - Stephany Flores, 21, murdered in Lima hotel room, 30 May 2010 #19

[froginTtown]

Drug connection with Natalee and Beth??:banghead: Renee Gielen's theory?:banghead:

just quizing.... :croc:

 

[Unreals]

With all due respect, I think a lot of people are glossing over what are terribly important issues here. The crime scene is the most basic part of any murder investigation. It is not normal for so many simple, yet crucial details of a murder scene to change as much as they have in this case.

A medical examiner should know whether there was a lot of blood or not at the crime scene. There should be an early consensus, in any investigation, about the position of the body and what the body was clothed in. After a few weeks, there should be no questions as to whether or not a murder weapon was found in a very small room. If the thoroughly demonized primary suspect's shirt was actually found wrapped around the victim's neck, then it would have been blasted as "bombshell- breaking news!" night after night on Nancy Grace, JVM, etc. There were so many leaks in this case, but for weeks no one leaked the sensational (and vitally important) detail that Joran's shirt was used to strangle Stephany?

Every case has mistakes, early misreporting, etc. No one expects the authorities in Peru to be perfect. However, in this case there have no consistencies whatsoever, about any aspect of this investigation at all, other than the seemingly undeniable fact that Joran did leave the hotel Sunday morning. When you combine all these sloppy errors in reporting on the crime scene, if they were errors, with the horrible reputation of the Peruvian police and justice system, then I can't see how anyone interested in justice can trust any of the "facts" being reported.

 

[Melanie]

Drug connection with Natalee and Beth??:banghead: Renee Gielen's theory?:banghead:

ICK - couldn't resist. This is the Natalie Holloway conspiracy? I won't even repeat what is said but you can look up Renee Gielen on You Tube if you want to get sick to your stomach.

You're right - :banghead:

Now I'm off -- back on topic

Mel

 

[Unreals]

OK.. to unreals...so you are saying that Stephany is an aftermath??? (so to speak) I think I remember you saying that there was some sort of drug connection with Beth through Natalee??? am I remembering this right???

It's complicated, and since it involves the Holloway case (which we're supposed to keep on that thread), I won't go into details. But yes, obviously those who feel Joran was framed in Peru would have to connect that to what happened in Aruba. What other reason would there be to frame him?

 

[Unreals]

[/b]

I'm having a tough time with this statement on a few levels.

1. The coroner has fixed a time and date of death no? It's only fair a defense attorney could question this at trial.

2. If the standard of proof for homicide required is a video camera be present in order for conviction, we'd all be doomed.

3. Jorans flight out of the country that morning while taking Stephanys jeep in the beginning.

4. We know when Joran left the Hotel and took flight, he was captured with Stephanys blood in his possession. Are you saying this is mis-information also?

5. Joran trying to change his appearance before being captured.

6. Jorans changing stories.

So you see, it's not just one thing that convinces me, it's an accumulation of things. Even if one removed the confession and video camera from the crime, I'd still think he was guilty. IMO

Next come the forensics.

With all the changing aspects of the crime scene, and apparently inaccurate information coming from the medical examiner, I have very little confidence that the official time of death can be completely trusted.

But I'm curious- are you saying that, if the video tape showed someone else entering Joran's room after he left, and before Stephany's body was discovered, that it wouldn't exonerate him? At the very least, it would mean the person entering the room covered up her death, wouldn't it?

To me, that video tape evidence would trump everything else.

 

[georger]

Lots of great questions. I'm not much into a conspiracy theory, but I do believe someone was keeping close tabs on JVS -- whether that was the FBI, local LE, or a private investigator. Remember, he's been duped in the past by "friends" who actually turned out to be reporters.

I don't like the scenario I'm now hearing from the receptionist. It doesn't ring true to me. Yes, I'd like to see the video of the receptionist going into a room at midnight. If they wanted to know if he came back and just didn't see him, why didn't they rewind the tape to see for themselves? Also, why send the receptionist. The manager should have gone to the room (IMHO).

Another thing, is when he first notices the camera. It's an Oh shi* moment. Like he hadn't noticed it before. Was that camera placed there in anticipation of his arrival (boy, I'd really like to know that).

Maybe I'm just getting bits and pieces and it's not fitting for me -- but something is off.

On another note, I'm watching NG, and one of the talking heads was talking about nose bleeds. Not to get too offensive, but my dad suffers from nosebleeds, and has to often go to the hosptal. Left untreated, and lying unconcious on the floor, the blood will flow into the throat, and you can actually drown.

Yet, from what I can tell, the head was down, meaning the blood would drain onto the side of her face, or directly on the floor. This would explain why there was so much blood. I bet JVS wasn't quite expecting that!

Thanks for letting me think out loud. And of course, all of this is MOO.

Best,

Mel

Without seeing some decent photos of the crime scene
and blood spatter patterns its impossible to tell ... the blood on the shoes could be exhalded/coughed blood or blood dropped from above, or both ...
but I dont see the very small blood spots that usually associate with exhalded blood ... it looks like venous blood on the shoes vrs. brighter
arterial (oxygenated) blood massed on the sheets and I notice these
large dense drops of blood have run and soaked into the shoe laces and eyelets whereas on the sides of the shoes there really arent any run patterns usually associated with fresh blood? Here's a larger photo of one of the shoes -

 

[mlefey]

Only one human was in the room when victim was alive. one human left that victim dead or dieing. 2? days later victim found dead!
Are we to conclude she beat herself to death since no one else entered the room?

More likely one killer. JVS the man who confessed! and sadly had a swollen hand.

I love conspiracy theories and jump on the wagon first chance, but some things like self beating to the point of torture, that cannot be accepted by anyone that easily, even lovers of conspiracies, stop me from joining them on this case.

Maybe his mother and brothers can see that a conspiracy occurred, because they will not accept a monster in their midst, for impartial viewers is impossible.

 

[froginTtown]

and I like you, was frustrated by the "facts" that the English /American reporters where "reporting".. Every reporter was out for the almighty buck to see who could get the stories out first... As I said earlier, is was beyond sloppy reporting which pi$$ed alot of us off here.. Many arguements happened over the "idiots" trying to get their story out first...

But, as you said yourself, that you are more into Natalee's disappearance anyways... right?? Which brings me back to why do you think she disappeared?? You seem to think Beth had everything to do with it..?? Does she?? and why???

 

[Peliman]

Every case has mistakes, early misreporting, etc. No one expects the authorities in Peru to be perfect. However, in this case there have no consistencies whatsoever, about any aspect of this investigation at all, other than the seemingly undeniable fact that Joran did leave the hotel Sunday morning. When you combine all these sloppy errors in reporting on the crime scene, if they were errors, with the horrible reputation of the Peruvian police and justice system, then I can't see how anyone interested in justice can trust any of the "facts" being reported.

Thanks, yes I agree with the fog of reporting especially in the instance of a crime, especially homicide. In the US, LE has a love/hate affair with the press. On initial 911 calls usually a body is reported found, press picks up the scanner call and goes to investigate and is faced with a wall of police and yellow crime tape and kept way back. LE at the line will start the confusion, ahh it's a suicide in a car back in the ally. FOG FOG...

Sometimes it's more simple if the body is obviously dead in the street. LE doesn't want the public to know everything. They want to keep details only the killer would know.

 

[georger]

This article has a photo of JVDS's medical check-up when he was first turned over from Chile to the Peruvian Interpol. The doctor (?) is holding up a note along his shoulder near his neck. I remember seeing a similar photo taken from behind him, where she's holding a note toward the back of his neck...but I haven't been able to locate that one...does anyone have a link to it??

Perhaps this is indicating scratches on his neck, where SF might have tried to grab him or push him away as he was strangling her.

http://www.newser.com/story/92203/van-der-sloot-jailed-on-murder-charges.html

Just my opinion, as always. :innocent:

I saw the same thing - these must be forensic labels/notes. I also thought I saw a large bruise but the
camera panned so quickly it was hard to confirm (maybe it was a shadow)? FOX has by far had the best camera work to date.

 

[georger]

Peruvian Government.... If your reading this.....Kick his happy a$$ to the curb... yup...drop the charges and let him run....set him free as a bird into the civilians... We have all seen on how much they want him...

or envoke some Inca or Lakota Law! :angel:

 

[georger]

It wasn't published by CBS with the original batch of crime scene photos. I found it later by tracing the URL of these photos (a techique I learned here from one of our fabulous sleuthers!!).

It's posted in the media thread...but mis-labelled as 'torso' photo (cause that's what I thought it was when I found it):

Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - Stephany Flores Ramirez Media Links and Images **NO DISCUSSION**

any and all good photos appreciated!

 

[Peliman]

With all the changing aspects of the crime scene, and apparently inaccurate information coming from the medical examiner, I have very little confidence that the official time of death can be completely trusted.

But I'm curious- are you saying that, if the video tape showed someone else entering Joran's room after he left, and before Stephany's body was discovered, that it wouldn't exonerate him? At the very least, it would mean the person entering the room covered up her death, wouldn't it?

To me, that video tape evidence would trump everything else.

I find it highly unlikely if anyone else visited that room that neither Joran or the unknown person called police. Why would Joran flee the country and change his appearance at the time? Sure I'd imagine LE had the video you seek, I doubt they could post 3 days of it at one time on the web though. It still doesn't explain him with her blood in his possession and clothing or his white shirt at the hotel room.

 

[froginTtown]

Thats what I don't get... Why is Joran fighting to get OUT of prision..?? He is actually safer in there...!!! If they do release him.. are the police obligated to protect him.. I just don't get it... :\

 

[Unreals]

and I like you, was frustrated by the "facts" that the English /American reporters where "reporting".. Every reporter was out for the almighty buck to see who could get the stories out first... As I said earlier, is was beyond sloppy reporting which pi$$ed alot of us off here.. Many arguements happened over the "idiots" trying to get their story out first...

But, as you said yourself, that you are more into Natalee's disappearance anyways... right?? Which brings me back to why do you think she disappeared?? You seem to think Beth had everything to do with it..?? Does she?? and why???

It's not that I'm more into Natalee's disappearance, but I did research it for quite a while and was in the midst of writing a book about it when the murder in Peru occured. Yes, I believe Beth had a lot to do with Natalee disappearing, and I don't mean that she directly caused it through foul play. I bear no animosity towards Beth, but she was a crucial part of what happened, and I believe in telling the truth.

One of the few true notes emanating from the Nancy Grace/JVM/Geraldo genre of gotcha/sensationlist "journalism" came the other night, when Jane Velez Mitchell stated, on her show, that many crimes come from a desperate effort to contain a secret.

I know I'm in a small minority, but unless it is verified, by someone I trust, that the video tape from that security camera shows no one else entering that room after Joran leaves, until the receptionist who discovered the body, then I will continue to strongly suspect that he was framed.

 

[georger]

I would love to see what JVDS would do with a "camel spider" crawling on him in the middle of the night... Thats what my son has to deal with in Afghanistan...and he's a good guy... A rat would be a joke to my son... If you got a sec. google a camel spider..eewwwww....

I hope your son is doing well ... he is in our thoughts & prayers.

With the open sewers at Castro snakes come to my mind. And Peru has them.

 

[georger]

Very good, communication between shifts is a very big issue. Not unlike these forums we read. I leave for a day and come back to another 15 pages of post to read through. Sometimes I have and take the time, other times not so much.

I cant get here until late at night and then I feel I owe to posters
to read every single posts people have made before I say anything, then it is later ... and I always wind up on the tail end ... oh well .. I hope Im contributing something worthwhile. Thanks for your post this late!

 

[georger]

BBM: I've already thrown that armed robber story out of my mind. In the photos, you can see that Stephany has a gold ring on and a nice looking watch. Why would they want her cash, car, and credit card numbers only. And where are these robbers on the video tapes!

And I thought there was a photo published in the media thread showing the white shirt with black buttons. That's not the same shirt she was wearing when she walked in -- but looks a lot like JVS's.

MOO

Mel

What I want to know A LOT MORE ABOUT!!! is his financial situation.
Did he have money stached ... does he have money stached somewhere .. did he blow it all?? ... is he broke of not? ... I thought
Bobarino made a good point last night when he brought up "where was
Joran going and why" .... and with what financial means? Was he headed to do more gambling, with what? Was he headed to jump ship back to
Aruba, (paid with what!?) ..... follow the money? Right?

 

[froginTtown]

It's not that I'm more into Natalee's disappearance, but I did research it for quite a while and was in the midst of writing a book about it when the murder in Peru occured. Yes, I believe Beth had a lot to do with Natalee disappearing, and I don't mean that she directly caused it through foul play. I bear no animosity towards Beth, but she was a crucial part of what happened, and I believe in telling the truth.

One of the few true notes emanating from the Nancy Grace/JVM/Geraldo genre of gotcha/sensationlist "journalism" came the other night, when Jane Velez Mitchell stated, on her show, that many crimes come from a desperate effort to contain a secret.

I know I'm in a small minority, but unless it is verified, by someone I trust, that the video tape from that security camera shows no one else entering that room after Joran leaves, until the receptionist who discovered the body, then I will continue to strongly suspect that he was framed.

OK then...Done chatting...you are talking in circles/riddles... I asked a straight forward question of you to explain HOW Beth is involved in the disappearance of her daughter...I hope that you have better luck with your book....cuz I'm not biting no more...I appreciate your input though..:angel:

 

[georger]

The photos are pretty 'galvanising' aren't they. They threw me straight back into reality. Suddenly it's like 'NO! this is totally sick' he can never be let out of prison etc.....that poor poor girl.

RIP Stefany.

galvanising' is the word!