Possible Connections

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It does seem odd that this deceased young man has never been identified, but really hard to tell if it has any connection to the Lyon sisters' case. However, as more info continues to come out with regards to the Lyon sisters' case, the more I really believe that there is a strong connection to the cold case of 18 yr old, Eileen Kelly, who disappeared after getting off at a bus stop in Hyattsville, Maryland in broad daylight on December 14, 1974. Her body was found on December 22, 1974 and based on the coroner's report. there is a possibility that Eileen had been held captive and alive for several days before she was murdered and dumped. This occurred just 3 month's before the Lyon sisters' disappearance. Eileen's physical description as white with blonde hair and petite in stature gives me such a strong hunch or gut reaction that her case is linked to the lyons'. I know that Richard has mentioned this possible connection in a thread, but I would like to know what other WS members think about this also. Thanks.
 
Historydetective63 said:
...as more info continues to come out with regards to the Lyon sisters' case, the more I really believe that there is a strong connection to the cold case of 18 yr old, Eileen Kelly, who disappeared after getting off at a bus stop in Hyattsville, Maryland in broad daylight on December 14, 1974. Her body was found on December 22, 1974 and based on the coroner's report. there is a possibility that Eileen had been held captive and alive for several days before she was murdered and dumped. This occurred just 3 month's before the Lyon sisters' disappearance. Eileen's physical description as white with blonde hair and petite in stature gives me such a strong hunch or gut reaction that her case is linked to the lyons'. I know that Richard has mentioned this possible connection in a thread, but I would like to know what other WS members think about this also. Thanks.
Click to expand...

Yes, let's re-visit this question. I've pasted my previous post below with some of the details of why this case seems connected to RAW and / or possibly other relatives in Hyattsville. I later asked a federal agent with experience in criminal profiling about this, and they said these cases quite possibly could be related. They said it is common for serial sexual predators to hunt in areas near where they live and work. In this case for the person of interest, RAW, that would be Hyattsville and Wheaton, MD.

" ...For some geographical perspective on this case and any potential proximal connections that could be involved, Eileen Kelly's parents Patrick F. and Eileen L. moved from Greenbelt, MD in 1962 to 5602 37th Avenue in Hyattsville where they lived in 1974 and until the 1990s. This is in general proximity to several Welch family households including those of LLW2 and RAW1, as well as other related families by their marriage to the Welch sisters of RAW. Probability would indicate that the Kelly's likely would have crossed paths at some point over time with members of the Welch families...

The Kelly's attended church at St. Jerome's located at 5207 42nd Place in Hyattsville. It has been stated that RAW1 lived at 5229 42nd Place (aka the Willoughby place) at the corner of 42nd Place and Jefferson Street, literally about 500 feet from St Jerome's...

I do not know what the bus route Eileen Kelly would have taken back in 1974 was (LE probably does know), however at this time there are 5 Metro bus stops on Jefferson Street, as Jefferson is a main connector between Rt.1 and Queens Chapel Road. For reference, both Queens Chapel Road (Michigan Ave from DC becomes Queens Chapel Rd. at the DC / MD line) and Rt. 1 are main arteries coming out of DC. Several of these bus stops on Jefferson are within clear eyesight of where RAW1 once lived at 5229 42nd Place and the corner of Jefferson Street."

I also think the proximity in time of these crimes to major holidays is curious, one before Christmas, and 3 months later, one before Easter. Could this create a trigger, or open a window of opportunity for a sexual predator based on their family traveling out of town to visit relatives over a break, changes in their work hours, school holidays...?

for reference, here is a picture of the house RAW lived in at the time. note the detached garage in the back.

RAW 1975 home.jpg
 
However, as more info continues to come out with regards to the Lyon sisters' case, the more I really believe that there is a strong connection to the cold case of 18 yr old, Eileen Kelly, who disappeared after getting off at a bus stop in Hyattsville, Maryland in broad daylight on December 14, 1974. Her body was found on December 22, 1974 and based on the coroner's report. there is a possibility that Eileen had been held captive and alive for several days before she was murdered and dumped.
Click to expand...

Then Eileen Kelly disappeared exactly one day after Doreen Carlucci and Joanne Delardo disappeared from Woodbridge, New Jersey. And her body was found exactly one day before the three girls disappeared from Fort Worth, Texas.
 
Gruffin said:
Then Eileen Kelly disappeared exactly one day after Doreen Carlucci and Joanne Delardo disappeared from Woodbridge, New Jersey. And her body was found exactly one day before the three girls disappeared from Fort Worth, Texas.
Click to expand...

The Fort Worth Three is exactly who came to my mind. Interesting they disappeared the day after Eileen Kelly's body was found. I still wonder if FW3 and Lyon cases are related since it seems like I read somewhere Lloyd Welch was in Texas at one point.
 
I just wonder if the Lyon sisters kidnapping was a one off event or if abuse or worse happened regularly. I wonder if the authorities are looking into other missing children's cases from Virginia and other states.
 
gregjrichards said:
I just wonder if the Lyon sisters kidnapping was a one off event or if abuse or worse happened regularly. I wonder if the authorities are looking into other missing children's cases from Virginia and other states.
Click to expand...

I really believe that the Welchs' had something to do with the abduction, assault, and murder of 18 yr old Eileen Kelly from Hyattsville, Maryland who disappeared after departing a bus in Hyattsville in December 1974 just 3 months before the Lyon sisters. I hope LE in the Lyon sisters' case is looking into this. Eileen's body was found just inside the DC line so would be in their jurisdiction.
 
Historydetective63 said:
I really believe that the Welchs' had something to do with the abduction, assault, and murder of 18 yr old Eileen Kelly from Hyattsville, Maryland who disappeared after departing a bus in Hyattsville in December 1974 just 3 months before the Lyon sisters. I hope LE in the Lyon sisters' case is looking into this. Eileen's body was found just inside the DC line so would be in their jurisdiction.
Click to expand...

Yes, I think some of the W clan likely had a part in this case also. There are just too many similarities with the Eileen Kelly case and Lyon sisters case. It is also not a random coincidence that the Kelly family and the W clan lived within a few blocks of each other, and Eileen's church where she volunteered was literally about 250 feet away from RAW1's home on the same street. It is also extremely likely that her bus route and bus stop were within eyesight of RAW1's home. The other thing that stands out is that all of these girls lived in Maryland, but there bodies were taken to other locations in VA and DC. I believe this was done by experienced killers, cunning and savvy enough to exploit the communication gaps between LE in different states / jurisdictions that existed 40 years ago. This also occurred with Cynthia Gastelle from Takoma Park, MD who was last seen alive on April 3, 1980. Her body was found two years later near Haymarket, VA.

Let's start looking closer at the Eileen Kelly case. I found an old article with a few details about the case that I did not know, see attached. For example, Eileen Kelly did graduate from Elizabeth Seton HS in 1974, she was taking classes at Prince George's Community College in Largo, MD, she had moved out of her parents house and into her own apartment about 6 weeks prior to her abduction, and she would date occasionally but did not have a steady boyfriend. Also, her body was found on a lot behind 17 R Street NE, Washington, DC, not as close to Mt. Olivet cemetery as some have stated.

Eileen Kelly 1974 article.jpg
 
Eileen Kelly

Crime scene: Unit Block of R Street, NE ANC: 5C02 PSA: 501
Description: Eileen Kelly disappeared on December 14, 1974. Her body was found on December 22, 1974, in the unit block of R Street, NE.
Contact: Detective James Trainum (202) 727-5037 unsolved.murder@dc.gov
 
siriunsun said:
View attachment 71374

Kraisel, in the early sixties. Is it my imagination, or does he look like Tape Recorder Man? Also, does anyone else find it odd that until about a week ago, there were pictures of his ugly face on the internet, but now there aren't, except for this one?
Click to expand...

Leonard W. Kraisel does look a lot like the sketches of Tape Recorder Man (TRM) that were done right after the Lyon sisters' were abducted on March 25th, 1975. The shape of the eyes and the lips and the dark hair, head shape, etc. Could he have been the infamous TRM at Wheaton Plaza and part of the plan to kidnap young, pre-teen girls on that fateful day? Looking on the internet yesterday, I cannot find any photos now of this creep. Can any WS members shed some light on this observation.
 
I think Kraisel is how MCPD got Information to look into LLW jr as a suspect into Lyons girls.
 
Originally posted by foureyes: "Notice the facial resemblance to Lisa Renee Triggs, missing VA, to Sharon Goldstein."

Any significance of the vaguely similar physical appearance in the pictures of this 15 year old victim and Sharon Goldstein is not immediately apparent to me. These women were born thirty plus years apart. Are you suggesting that they may somehow be relatives?

PWC Police Revisit 1986 Cold Case of Lisa Renee Triggs Woodbridge Patch, November 25, 2014

"Prince William County Police are seeking new information regarding the 1986 killing of 15-year-old Lisa Renee Triggs. ...At age 15, Lisa Renee Triggs was last seen May 21, 1986 in front of the Giant Grocery Store in Center Plaza on Dale Boulevard in Dale City, Virginia... Three days later, Lisa’s body was found nearby in the wooded area behind Dale City Recreation Center on Minnieville Road. She died from blunt force trauma, according to Prince William County Police...

Detectives believe Lisa, who was a sophomore at Osbourn Park High School in Manassas, walked from Center Plaza along a path toward her home on Estate Drive. A carnival was taking place at the time at Center Plaza."

Cold Case: Police seek killer of Prince William teen, Washington Examiner 6-19-2011

Lisa headed home along a path that led behind the grocery store and Dale City Recreation Center. Somewhere along that path, she was sexually assaulted and murdered.
"We believe that it was a chance encounter, that it wasn't premeditated," said Paul Masterson, a cold-case homicide detective from Prince William County. "We don't believe she was followed; we believe she met somebody on the path and that person attacked her and she probably did not even know who this person was."

She died of blunt force trauma, probably from being struck with a large tree branch or pipe.
Her assailant partially buried her body under limbs and leaves away from the path, where it was found three days later.

Since the path was well traveled by homeless people and partygoers, the pool of possible suspects was large.

The police took DNA samples from more than 20 people, including Triggs' boyfriend, who was never seriously suspected of the crime. Though they found some people of interest, they have yet to find a likely suspect.

Police continue to compare the DNA samples of anyone in the area who is arrested for sexually deviant crimes, looking most recently at a sample about four weeks ago."

Here is what I find interesting about the Lisa Renee Triggs case:
She was last seen in front of a Giant grocery store, there was a traveling carnival at the shopping center, and she was walking on a path returning to her home.

Also, the Prince William County Police Department in response to a direct question about whether this case could be related to the Lyon sisters case, said "Our cold case detectives are in contact with Maryland."
 
Historydetective63 said:
It does seem odd that this deceased young man has never been identified, but really hard to tell if it has any connection to the Lyon sisters' case. However, as more info continues to come out with regards to the Lyon sisters' case, the more I really believe that there is a strong connection to the cold case of 18 yr old, Eileen Kelly, who disappeared after getting off at a bus stop in Hyattsville, Maryland in broad daylight on December 14, 1974. Her body was found on December 22, 1974 and based on the coroner's report. there is a possibility that Eileen had been held captive and alive for several days before she was murdered and dumped. This occurred just 3 month's before the Lyon sisters' disappearance. Eileen's physical description as white with blonde hair and petite in stature gives me such a strong hunch or gut reaction that her case is linked to the lyons'. I know that Richard has mentioned this possible connection in a thread, but I would like to know what other WS members think about this also. Thanks.
Click to expand...

As a point of clarity, Eileen was seen going to the Washington DC bus terminal near her place of employment, but was never seen getting off the bus in Hyattsville.

Hyattsville was indeed her destination, because she was to meet her father at the Hyattsville bus stop and from there was to go with her father to a car dealership to look at a new car he was going to buy for her. Her father was at the bus stop, but she never arrived.

With this in mind, what young person would intentionally get off the bus at an earlier stop, unless compelled to do so? It is, of course, possible that she boarded a different bus and would have had to walk to her intended destination. So there are two possible abduction scenarios.

Her body was found more than a week later just inside the Washington DC/ Prince Georges County (MD) line and it was obvious to LE that she had been held alive for some time before being murdered.

The case was origionally being pursued by Prince Georges County Police as a missing person case because her father reported her missing from Hyattsville. But when her body was found in DC, and there was no witness or evidence that she had made it to Hyattsville, MD, the case became a murder investigation, and was transferred to Washington DC jurisdiction, where it remains today as unsolved.

I personally spoke with the officer in charge of her case some time back and suggested a possible connection to the Lyon case. He was well aware of the Lyon case and its recent developments and said that he would contact MCP investigators about possible links.

I personally feel that there are stronger connections to Lloyd Welch in regard to Eileen Kelly than there are to the Lyon sisters and that a much stronger case could be presented if forensic evidence still exists and if personal connections can be established.
 
Richard said:
As a point of clarity, Eileen was seen going to the Washington DC bus terminal near her place of employment, but was never seen getting off the bus in Hyattsville.

Hyattsville was indeed her destination, because she was to meet her father at the Hyattsville bus stop and from there was to go with her father to a car dealership to look at a new car he was going to buy for her. Her father was at the bus stop, but she never arrived.

With this in mind, what young person would intentionally get off the bus at an earlier stop, unless compelled to do so? It is, of course, possible that she boarded a different bus and would have had to walk to her intended destination. So there are two possible abduction scenarios.

Her body was found more than a week later just inside the Washington DC/ Prince Georges County (MD) line and it was obvious to LE that she had been held alive for some time before being murdered.

The case was origionally being pursued by Prince Georges County Police as a missing person case because her father reported her missing from Hyattsville. But when her body was found in DC, and there was no witness or evidence that she had made it to Hyattsville, MD, the case became a murder investigation, and was transferred to Washington DC jurisdiction, where it remains today as unsolved.

I personally spoke with the officer in charge of her case some time back and suggested a possible connection to the Lyon case. He was well aware of the Lyon case and its recent developments and said that he would contact MCP investigators about possible links.

I personally feel that there are stronger connections to Lloyd Welch in regard to Eileen Kelly than there are to the Lyon sisters and that a much stronger case could be presented if forensic evidence still exists and if personal connections can be established.
Click to expand...


What connections do you think exist between Lloyd Welch and Eileen Kelly's case? Are you suggesting that they knew each other?
 
Richard and other WS members:

1) What are your thoughts about DeBardeleben
having been involved in some way?

2) There is one member who still strongly believes
That "D" was the abductor and got away literally
and also away with other horrible crimes because he was not
caught in time.

3) Any chance HE could've been "C D" spoken about by another
prisoner?
I see his name was James Mitchell (Michael) DeBardeleben.

4) Could D and others have been part of a network of
abductors?
 
simplifymylife2014 said:
Richard and other WS members:

1) What are your thoughts about DeBardeleben
having been involved in some way?

2) There is one member who still strongly believes
That "D" was the abductor and got away literally
and also away with other horrible crimes because he was not
caught in time.

3) Any chance HE could've been "C D" spoken about by another
prisoner?
I see his name was James Mitchell (Michael) DeBardeleben.

4) Could D and others have been part of a network of
abductors?
Click to expand...

There are a thousand hacking at the branches of evil to one who is striking at the root.
Henry D Thoreau


DeBardel*** and Krais** were both born in 1940. The TRM eyewitness said TRM was in his late 40's or 50 years old. I could be wrong and so could
MDietz47, as far as TRM is concerned; but believe he did see Sheila April 7. I believe TRM is part of this group.

You talk of a network, I believe it to be an organized group. The indicted prisoner although manipulative as well as manipulated, is not the leader. I feel the Lyon Sisters are truly gone.
Glad to see some of the members back. Wish some of the former members could return. I wholeheartedly agree the Eileen Kelly case is intertwined with the Lyon Sisters case.
 
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