Rape And Molestation Charges Filed

[PattyCake]

That's kind of where I was until I started reading some of the other comments, above. I CAN see it if, say, rage was the force behind the killing--MH was enraged with her life, her own kid, her mother, whatever--and somehow Sandra set her off. Then, in an effort to cover up the murder, she could have tried to make it look like rape so that a male with a different motive would be suspected.

What do you think?

I originally thought maybe she wanted to make money in kiddie *advertiser censored* but mostly I think it's easier for me to believe she set it up to look like a rape. Does anyone know if they can tell if injuries causes to vaginal area was post mortem, even if it was quite immediate after death?

God this is just so hard to think about this happening to children. :furious:

 

[daisy.faithfull]

I originally thought maybe she wanted to make money in kiddie *advertiser censored* but mostly I think it's easier for me to believe she set it up to look like a rape. Does anyone know if they can tell if injuries causes to vaginal area was post mortem, even if it was quite immediate after death?

God this is just so hard to think about this happening to children. :furious:

Yes, injuries do look different depending on if the person is alive or dead. At least that is what I understand from watching CSI, it seems like it happens a lot on those shows and the ME always explains how they know when the wound occurred. I guess our skin reacts differently when there is no blood flow, so swelling, bruising, bleeding or other normal reactions that skin has to being traumatized. There is just the scrape or cut etc. Hope that helps!:crazy:

 

[Silver~Bell]

It didn't make national news but in Midland Texas there was a woman who attacked a cabbie, stabbed him and dragged him down a gravel road in town. WITHOUT any male partner. She had before also attacked and tried to strangle a pregnant cashier to death at a local convenience store. At her hearing, it was noted that she was having to be kept in isolation due to attacking and trying to sexually attack other women in the jail.

If people are having such a difficult time with the "no male involved" thing, they might think of it this way: there may not have been any male PRESENT but I bet feelings of jealousy against little Sandra and wanting to get attention FROM MALES/sex partners was behind the attack. So a "male" IDEA is present, do you know what I mean? A male motivation, or a sexual motivation in the attack. Not saying MALES have anything to do with the crime directly, just saying that I bet she was motivated by wanting attention, evidently has done all sorts of stunts for attention.

 

[Veritas]

In the 1980's I had a friend whose 2 year old grand daughter had been raped on several occasions by her 17 year old female babysitter -- one implement was an unheated curling iron. She acted alone. The toddler was under therapy for years; the teen was "dealt with" under juvenile courts--no idea what happened because it was very hush hush (small town, victim's family prominant.) I've always wondered what became of that abuser and whether she continued to abuse, protected by sealed juvenile records--and ever since never doubted what any human of either gender can do when evil is present.

 

[daisy.faithfull]

I found this a poignant read today, including the Comments that follow her article:

Do Women Rape?
THE DAILY BEAST
Marcia Clark

http://www.thedailybeast.com/blogs-and-stories/2009-04-16/huckabys-crazy-defense/

I think that Marcia Clark rocks! The article was really interesting. It made me think about what I had said earlier about Casey and the Anthonys making it easier for people to believe that MH could commit such horrors. I still think so, just not as strongly. I know that Casey didn't molest little Caylee, but she was Caylee's mother. Motherhood is a special bond that is a far cry from the bond with the mother of a friend or babysitter. The first mother to murder her children I ever heard about was Susan Smith, and I was almost as horrified as I am today hearing about what MH is charged with. When I heard about Caylee I was saddened, by sadly not shocked.

I also think that these days, with everything that has happened (Oklahoma, Columbine, The World Trade Center, Virgina Tech, Warren Jeffs/FLDS sex crimes, DC Sniper and all the crimes similar to those just mentioned) we live in an era where we aren't as shocked with being shocked.:sheesh:

I found hope in this comment she made when talking about how the insanity plea would not work for MH: "even though she allegedly placed the body in a suitcase and sunk it in an irrigation pond—there is nothing that could make a jury understand or forget the hideous fact, if proven, she defiled a little girl. The fastest verdicts I ever prosecuted were molestation cases—I once saw a jury convict on nine counts in 20 minutes flat." I look at that as saying that what may be the achilles heal of the case may also be its greatest asset in the pursuit of justice. This case is about pure evil, it has none of the Andrea Yates "I was saving my child" sympathy plea as Marcia Clark mentioned. And sure MH sought mental health services, but I don't think that she faced any of the obstacles like AY's husband was to getting that treatment.

By all appearances so far MH's family has none of the Anthony's dysfunction. So while a history of abuse may get her some sympathy, unless she was abused by a family member that is going to be overshadowed by a family that is heavily involved in the church.

Anyway thanks for the article I think I may have read it before my head began to calm down enough to really process stuff like that.

 

[Logger]

It doesn't really matter what the "public" thinks a woman is capable of. In our justice system it is up to the judge and jury. We only know what the media has presented.
When all the evidence and circumstances come out we can be skeptical or convinced.

It is too early to tell.

 

[tapu]

I agree that post-mortem trauma is identifiable, but what if MH thought Sandra were dead and she wasn't quite (sickening to consider but bear with me here), and in an attempt to cover the killing, MH went ahead and abused Sandra and then she died?

Geez, it's a drag to think about this stuff so closely!

 

[oceanblueeyes]

I agree that post-mortem trauma is identifiable, but what if MH thought Sandra were dead and she wasn't quite (sickening to consider but bear with me here), and in an attempt to cover the killing, MH went ahead and abused Sandra and then she died?

Geez, it's a drag to think about this stuff so closely!

Frankly, imo, in the end I don't think it is going to matter if it was right before her death or immediately afterward. If the DA can show the evidence (and I think they can) that Sandra was raped with a foreign object and the jury believes that it was done by Melissa Huckaby she will receive the harshest punishment available. Sandra represents innocence and Huckaby destroyed that innocence.

imo

 

[Columbo]

I interpret the "no trauma" statement differently from most here. But, I have to go back and review when the statement was made to the media...I don't remember if it was before or after the ME's exam.

But IIRC, and it was a statement made prior to the statements that were made after the ME exam, then my interpretation was there was no trauma visable when the suitcase was opened and a cursory exam was performed.

I imagine the exam in order to determine trauma in that region of the body would be more involved given that Sandra had been, in my mind's eye, manipulated physically to fit into a suitcase of that size. I don't want to be more graphic in the description than that because it is a personal preference of mine to try not to post anything the family may read that would cause them more pain. Just me and my quirks.

I think you are right about the "No trauma" statement. It was before the ME exam came back, and besides--I wonder if Sheneman would have revealed anything at that point, even if there were visible signs of trauma. LE has to omit information sometimes if it's an ongoing investigation .

 

[Kat]

Ty you Columbo...I spent this morning trying to find the earliest mention of the trauma reference in the first days after Sandra was found.

I found a reference, I hope it is the earliest if not I apologize.

http://www.timesheraldonline.com/news/ci_12105433

Posted: 04/09/2009 01:02:58 AM PDT

Police said a coroner's report on the cause of death for the 8-year-old girl has not been completed, but a source with knowledge of the investigation said the girl's body had no visible signs of trauma on initial examination.

I hate to sound so picky. But the actual phrase used that I can find is not no signs of trauma. But... no visible signs of trauma on initial examination.

Very important words they are: visible and initial when they are added to the phrase "no signs of trauma" dont' you think? Or am I reading too much into?

 

[Columbo]

Ty you Columbo...I spent this morning trying to find the earliest mention of the trauma reference in the first days after Sandra was found.

I found a reference, I hope it is the earliest if not I apologize.

http://www.timesheraldonline.com/news/ci_12105433

Posted: 04/09/2009 01:02:58 AM PDT



I hate to sound so picky. But the actual phrase used that I can find is not no signs of trauma. But... no visible signs of trauma on initial examination.

Very important words they are: visible and initial when they are added to the phrase "no signs of trauma" dont' you think? Or am I reading too much into?

Thanks, Kat! You aren't being picky or reading too much into it. I think we are all in a position of hanging on to every word we hear from LE, trying to figure out what MH did to poor Sandra. Also, Sheneman might have been holding back a bit to preserve the integrity of the case.

The "initial examination" might be perfunctory--it would be if I were the cop, I wouldn't be able to look (I know they have to, as sad, horrifying and awful as it is). Also, with the body having been deteriorating for 2 weeks in the water, the "initial examination" might not reveal too much.

 

[future criminologist]

People are forgetting NAZI GERMANY and the vast number of HORRIBLE CRIMES perpetrated on the people in the death camps, not just by the males such as Mengele, but by WOMEN, some of whom were HANGED (YAY) after the War. They did all sorts of horrible, horrible, perverted things to their victims.

to add to your point...one of the worst war criminals in the world was a woman, but you don't often hear about her. Pauline Nyiramasuhuko, former Minister of Family and Women Affairs in Rwanda, in addition to giving commands to Hutus to kill the Tutsis, specifically instructed them to RAPE the women. A WOMAN gave instruction to rape. I am really surprised we don't hear more often about the women who were involved in the rape of other women in the Rwandan genocide.

This disturbing article on Nyiramasuhuko in the New York Times describes this woman's crimes:

A Woman's Work
http://www.nytimes.com/2002/09/15/magazine/a-woman-s-work.html

In addition, two NUNS were convicted of war crimes in Rwanda.

http://www.cbc.ca/world/story/2001/06/08/rwanda_010608.html

 

[Nora Charles]

Its one thing to be shocked by statistics, its even worse to look at a collection of 103 women sexual offenders. I haven't gone through them all, but it does look like the majority of the women are school teachers, although there was a nanny and a teaching aid. A number of the teachers taught special education classes. One mother "threw a sexually oriented slumber party" with her daughter's friends aged 9 to 13. Not one of the women received penalties befitting their crimes. The women that did receive heavier sentences were those who's maximum sentences were heavier to begin with. For example one of the women who was sentenced to 6 years in prison was facing a maximum of 64 year.

(Snipped by me)

I just can't get over these pictures, Daisy...and my reaction to them. I found myself looking at these pictures and "assuming" some of the younger and prettier women must have just been with an "almost 18 year old boy." Not that it would be ok then, but it wouldn't be "as bad" if that makes sense. (Did I seriously just write that?!) I can't believe how I have been conditioned!!

Somehow I just imagine an uglier face on the women who commit such crimes, but this website disproves the myth that they will look the part. I need to read about some of these cases so I can really come to terms with the truth that they can look young and beautiful and still commit such unspeakable crimes. Thank you for forcing me to open my eyes about my own biased thinking.

Was anyone else shocked at how "normal" most of these women look?

 

[warbuckle]

I am glad you started this thread so people can see it really DOES happen. And they do act alone. I have seen so much already in terms of what I would call a gender bias in this case. Repeatedly people have said there MUST be male involved since a woman would not do this alone. BS!

Granted, women don't often kill their victims...but some do. I would like to do more research in that area, too. I believe there are cases out there to show it has happened and women can be as vicious as any male predator.

I agree with you. I think she should be treated exactly like a man who had done this. I see people who do this kinda act not as female or male but as animals regardless if they have a mental illness or not. These are the kind of crimes I feel should get the DP.

 

[Kat]

http://www.masoncountydailynews.com.../3468/ArticleID/7034/reftab/1632/Default.aspx

update on pedo that was mentioned above:

A former Tacoma elementary school teacher faces more than 25 years in prison when she is sentenced on June 5. A Pierce County Superior Court judge yesterday found Jennifer Rice guilty of one count of first-degree kidnapping with sexual motivation, one count of first-degree child molestation and two counts of third-degree child rape.

:clap: that's another one off the streets.

 

[oceanblueeyes]

This is a very interesting article about female pedophile predators.

A must read, imo.

Here is an exerpt:

By looking at the predators backgrounds, Dr. Schurman-Kauflin has found that their life patterns tend to include:

* Loneliness
* Child abuse (victim of)
* Fantasy; Acting out (violent against animals & other children)
* Sexually promiscuous
* Psychopathic behavior (stealing, fire setting, lying)
* Attaching to steady figure (older male)
* Increased time alone
* Practicing violence
* Kidnap; and Kill





http://blogs.discovery.com/criminal_report/2009/04/female-sex-killers.html

 

[oceanblueeyes]

What I found so interesting about the article linked above is how these female predators do these acts because they love the sexual thrill it gives them. They are like the male predators in so many ways it is uncanny.

And when the Dr. stated that these female pedophiles like to mutilate the genitalia of a female child it made me so disheartened and sickened for little Sandra and her last moments on this earth.

Melissa Huckaby seems to closely fit the profile that Dr. Kauflin has seen during her time dealing with these kind of female predators.

imo

 

[oceanblueeyes]

http://www.masoncountydailynews.com.../3468/ArticleID/7034/reftab/1632/Default.aspx

update on pedo that was mentioned above:



:clap: that's another one off the streets.

And another one.

http://www.aboms.com/archives/004195.html

July 05, 2006
Teacher Georgianne Harrell Gets 25 Years for Child Molestation
SYLVESTER, Ga. -- A former third grade teacher at a Worth County elementary school has been sentenced to 25 years in prison for aggravated child molestation.

 

[concentric]

I was going to ask if this was the first case of a female pedophile abusing a female victim. It does seem to me that I have heard of; for instance, female lesbian coaches abusing female students, but never a female heterosexual abusing a child.

Was Huckaby sexually molested by a Hispanic male? Or, was Huckaby angry at a Hispanic female for "stealing a boyfriend?"

For me, there is more of an anger base to this rather than a female pedophile murdering to silence a victim.

 

[oceanblueeyes]

I just don't see anger or rage here in this case. I do see calculation and cunningness. I see a slow progression of enticement by befriending Sandra in order to gain her trust beforehand. She seems very much like other pedophiles including males. She comes under the guise of being meek, mild, endearing, attentive to the child and ingratiating themselves in the child's life. In fact IMOO I believe the 7 year old was her first intended targeted victim in the MHP but when the child's mother got the police involved she moved onto Sandra.

IMO, she is a sexual deviant and wanted to act out the sexual fantasies that she had in that sick perverted mind of hers. This is what she fantasied about doing to a vulnerable little child. I don't think Sandra's ethnicity had anything to do with it. Sandra was allowed to play outside in her own neighborhood so she was picked because MH had an opportunity to pretend that she could be trusted and be around her without being questioned.

I do not know if she became so carried away with her lust and perverted desires that she went too far and injured Sandra severely and then killed her because she knew she could never bring her home that way.

I seems a very methodical crime to me. In such a very short time she already had Sandra in the suitcase and thrown in the irrigation pond and Melissa's grandmother said she came back from the church in about an hour. It sure didn't seem to bother her any but I think those that do these type of crimes against children are soulless and flat-liners for the most part. They have no empathy for anyone but themselves,imo.

imo