Australia Samantha Murphy, 51, last seen leaving her property to go for a run in the Canadian State Forest, Ballarat 100km NW of Melbourne, 4 Feb 2024 #6

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I was initially questioning the intention to kill because LE have stated this was a deliberate attack.

Could deliberate mean deliberately driving under the influence knowing you're at risk to others? Or deliberately concealing a body and not reporting it?

Perhaps they've worded it this way and charged the accused with straight up murder because he's illegally driving on drugs, killed SM in the process and then concealed her body instead of calling authorities... Sorry I'm just trying to make sense of this theory and the legal jargon as I know many want this theory to be disregarded because LE state it's not a hit and run as such. IMO.
Same! My thoughts have been that Samantha was hit accidentally, still alive, perp panicked and intentionally killed her. Most cases I’m on board with different thoughts and we can go off on some wild goose chases. I said this earlier thread, and it is a strange feeling and I’m certainly not psychic, but something isn’t letting me stray from my thinking on this one.
 
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im thinking they must have video footage showing her death or a witness has come forward, otherwise how can they be so adament, plus stating her death was deliberate

I agree bearbear. I think they have footage and someone or others have dobbed him in, with other witnesses coming forward
 
Do we know this as fact...(onto him within 2 weeks)???
As I have mentioned a few times, I struggle with JUST HOW LONG, LE seemed to know or found NOTHING. Im going to try to go back to find those LE statements of knowing nothing.... but if anyone has one of the msm articles handy.... please share

This clip references the surveillance
 
I was initially questioning the intention to kill because LE have stated this was a deliberate attack.

Could deliberate mean deliberately driving under the influence knowing you're at risk to others? Or deliberately concealing a body and not reporting it?

Perhaps they've worded it this way and charged the accused with straight up murder because he's illegally driving on drugs, killed SM in the process and then concealed her body instead of calling authorities... Sorry I'm just trying to make sense of this theory and the legal jargon as I know many want this theory to be disregarded because LE state it's not a hit and run as such. IMO.
Does the accused have to be caught over the legal limit in person at that time to be charged with that crime ? Because 5 weeks after the event the blood alcohol read wouldn’t be relevant to substantiate this. Or can the defense be charged with this by witness accounts?
 
Maybe it did
EDIT…Don’t know what I did…I was replying to acutename’s post which was regarding SM Apple Watch- “would it call EMS if your heart/respiration stopped? I know a colleague gets alarms if he gets arrhythmia. Sorry!
My Original post!
Wait!
You could be on to something! Samantha’s watch could very well indeed called emergency services, as well as her phone (if she was hit). Short story-a while back I woke up to men screaming and banging on doors and I called 911. Turns out, my neighbor left his phone on the back of his truck while working on it (late night) and went for a drive and the phone fell off and it did call 911. We all had a good laugh. I called 911 on 911. The dispatcher didn’t realize units were already here for the 911 call from the neighbors phone.
Going off of memory (which is questionable) but didn’t LE originally think no foul play/not suspicious? Being lazy and don’t feel like checking (now I will)-can’t remember if LE ever stated medical as a possibility-been on thread since beginning so there’s the questionable memory!
 
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Is anyone other than me reflecting on what the odds are of a completely “random” untargeted opportunistic attack occurring without a single trace of evidence being left behind at the scene (that the public are aware of), and no trace of where the body mysteriously “disappeared” to, after 5+ weeks of intensive police and community searching in 2024? It would seem extraordinarily “lucky” to me that a rookie accused murderer could, single-handedly, “pull off” a series of untraceable steps with such aplomb, attracting 5 weeks of national and international attention with no planning, and, further, impaired by drugs, alcohol and lack of sleep…. ?!?! Even if he did know the area… The odds of all these separate elements of “lucky ness” seem so far beyond chance as to be extraordinary… While Samantha, on the other hand, was so “unlucky”… : (

And, all this in broad daylight, on a Sunday morning, within a narrow window of a few hours say 8am and ? when MM started searching (9 or 10am?) called police (11am), police search commenced (?am). Therein lies the fascination… IMO
 
Wait!! You could be on to something! Samantha’s watch could very well indeed called emergency services, as well as her phone (if she was hit). Short story-a while back I woke up to men screaming and banging on doors and I called 911. Turns out, my neighbor left his phone on the back of his truck while working on it (late night) and went for a drive and the phone fell off and it did call 911. We all had a good laugh. I called 911 on 911. The dispatcher didn’t realize units were already here for the 911 call from the neighbors phone.
Going off of memory (which is questionable) but didn’t LE originally think no foul play/not suspicious? Being lazy and don’t feel like checking (now I will)-can’t remember if LE ever stated medical as a possibility-been on thread since beginning so there’s the questionable memory!

Just catching up here but I believe the iPhone will call emergency service AND also notify a loved one, eg MM? If set up to do so. This could explain what I still consider the very quickly escalated search response IMO.
 
Felicity Ryan put a call out on social media on Friday to gauge interest in a community run to honour Murphy and said she was overwhelmed by the response.

“I arrived and there was a handful of people... then the cars just started piling in,” she told 7NEWS.

The group stood for a minute silence before heading off on a 7km run around Ocean Grove at 5.30am on Sunday.

“I’ve got goosebumps talking about it now, it was the most heartfelt morning you could imagine ... there was lots of hugging ... there were lots of tears,” Ryan said.
 
This is the requirements for murder in Victoria

In Victoria, murder is recognised as the intentional and unlawful killing of another person. To prove a charge of murder, the prosecution must demonstrate beyond a reasonable doubt that the accused:

  • Voluntarily committed acts which caused the victim’s death;
  • Had the intention to kill, or cause really serious injury or knowing it was probable that death or serious injury would result; and
  • Had no lawful justification or defence for those acts.
Thanks for this - so it is slightly different, but 'Reckless Murder' from the first strand still applies? (Voluntary committed acts). My underline and bold.

'....the accused can be found guilty if they knew it was probable that serious injury would result from their voluntary acts. This is called reckless murder. An offence is considered “reckless” if the accused intentionally committed an act and knew that it could reasonably cause harm or kill someone, even if they did not intend to harm anyone. In other words, the accused was willing to run the risk of someone else being injured or killed when they committed the act.

link here Murder & Manslaughter Defence Lawyers Victoria | Sher Criminal Lawyers
 
Just catching up here but I believe the iPhone will call emergency service AND also notify a loved one, eg MM? If set up to do so. This could explain what I still consider the very quickly escalated search response IMO.

Hi all, just running with this idea that Bobbacal2 set me off on. Here is a link to a story where the Apple Watch called emergence services AND the accident victims wife (who was listed as emergency contact). In this case the “perp” was a kangaroo, and he got away.


So IMO it is possible, that an impact or violent incident to SM, may have caused the watch to notify emergency services and also MM. If so, and the accused was perhaps not aware of this straight away, then I wonder what the emergency services and/or MM heard on the other end of the line? Was it recorded by emergency services? Was it enough for a murder charge?

Edit: this theory does not fit with police initially saying the disappearance was not suspicious. Unless, that is, police were deliberately playing it down in the media so as not to alert/spook potential suspects.
 
Hi all, just running with this idea that Bobbacal2 set me off on. Here is a link to a story where the Apple Watch called emergence services AND the accident victims wife (who was listed as emergency contact). In this case the “perp” was a kangaroo, and he got away.


So IMO it is possible, that an impact or violent incident to SM, may have caused the watch to notify emergency services and also MM. If so, and the accused was perhaps not aware of this straight away, then I wonder what the emergency services and/or MM heard on the other end of the line? Was it recorded by emergency services? Was it enough for a murder charge?

Edit: this theory does not fit with police initially saying the disappearance was not suspicious. Unless, that is, police were deliberately playing it down in the media so as not to alert/spook potential suspects.
It's very possible. I can't imagine an attacker pausing to remove someone's watch. Maybe she wore it for safety reasons, so her husband could check that she was safe when out running alone.

There were a lot of references to her watch on Under Investigation, like how they could tell something happened at her turn around point.

Hubby would have been aware immediately that something wasn't right, though. Did police know it was something sinister right from the beginning? Did they not want hubby to air any concerns about the watch data? They didn't want to alert the perp that the watch was tracking things?
 
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Thanks for this - so it is slightly different, but 'Reckless Murder' from the first strand still applies? (Voluntary committed acts). My underline and bold.

'....the accused can be found guilty if they knew it was probable that serious injury would result from their voluntary acts. This is called reckless murder. An offence is considered “reckless” if the accused intentionally committed an act and knew that it could reasonably cause harm or kill someone, even if they did not intend to harm anyone. In other words, the accused was willing to run the risk of someone else being injured or killed when they committed the act.

link here Murder & Manslaughter Defence Lawyers Victoria | Sher Criminal Lawyers

Thanks for this Nikynoo

Whilst I appreciate not everyone agrees, I for one think there may be a scenario where what starts out as an accidental vehicle hit due to reckless &/or drunk/drug driving, could lead to police prosecuting a murder charge due to:

(a) the initial deliberate act of driving under influence, being intentionally reckless in such a way that could reasonably kill an unsuspecting jogger. Eg speeding over a crest on a jogging track. And/or
(b) the subsequent deliberate actions to fail to call for help, deliberately allow victim to die, deliberate cover up the accident and hide a body.

It’s clear others on WS also see this as one possible theory as to what happened to SM. I acknowledge this could be a very long bow for police. I do wonder if it’s intended to spook the accused into revealing the location of the body, in return for a downgrade to manslaughter. I wonder if the accused has more to hide, horrors the accused is so ashamed of in the cold light of day they cannot bring themselves to reveal the location. Or maybe so amped on coke they literally can’t remember. Or maybe the accused thinks it’s a smart tactic? IMO

[Edit: to add, also IMO if this is what occurred, then it was definitely not a “hit and run” scenario, which by definition is fleeing the scene, not even stopping. As opposed to sticking around to meticulously cover up the scene, hide a body etc. IMO the police have to answer an emphatic and firm “NO” to any suggestion it’s a “hit and run” as to do otherwise would be seen to excuse and diminish the accused deliberate and deplorable behaviour after the “hit”.]

One poster asked how police could prosecute driving under influence weeks after the fact. It is a great question. I wonder would CCTV from pubs and bars, hours of footage of the accused drinking, even social media videos of drug taking, be sufficient?

I also think it’s very plausible this was more of a deliberate attack, not involving vehicle, some sort of fantasy. I think likely spontaneous, but maybe planned - maybe the bender & drugs was the prequel to something planned, getting up the “courage” to act out the fantasy. IMO
 
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Hi all, just running with this idea that Bobbacal2 set me off on. Here is a link to a story where the Apple Watch called emergence services AND the accident victims wife (who was listed as emergency contact). In this case the “perp” was a kangaroo, and he got away.


So IMO it is possible, that an impact or violent incident to SM, may have caused the watch to notify emergency services and also MM. If so, and the accused was perhaps not aware of this straight away, then I wonder what the emergency services and/or MM heard on the other end of the line? Was it recorded by emergency services? Was it enough for a murder charge?

Edit: this theory does not fit with police initially saying the disappearance was not suspicious. Unless, that is, police were deliberately playing it down in the media so as not to alert/spook potential suspects.
But LE was still saying "without a trace" type messages almost a full month after she disappeared. Wouldn't the Apple Watch have given more data quite early with this theory?
 
But LE was still saying "without a trace" type messages almost a full month after she disappeared. Wouldn't the Apple Watch have given more data quite early with this theory?
There may have been delays in getting the data. I don’t think MM would have received an emergency alert (nor emergency services), because it was clear at the beginning that no one was sure what had happened to Sam. I do hope she is found soon.
 
But LE was still saying "without a trace" type messages almost a full month after she disappeared. Wouldn't the Apple Watch have given more data quite early with this theory?

Yes I agree it’s not quite fitting, I just thought I’d tug on the thread and see where it led. The bloke in the story I linked that was hit by a kangaroo, Apple have now made that into a prime time TV ad which I saw watching Survivor on catch up TV with the kids earlier tonight, and the bit in the add about the watch calling the blokes wife (after it called emergency services), that got me thinking about SMs Apple Watch calling MM, and got me catching up on WS.

So yes maybe SMs watch called emergency services and also called MM at some point, maybe at 8am, which is what got the big search underway so soon - but they were still too late. The accused got out of there quick smart and at some point early on IMO disposed of the phone and watch. After which SM was gone “without a trace”. The 5pm ping I think is a red herring, IIRC police have never confirmed the time, I don’t know where the 5pm came from. But the police seemed adamant something happened to SM around 8am, around an hour after SM left. I’m fascinated what that 8am clue is, given it doesn’t sound like police have found the phone or watch that I am aware of.

It’s also plausible IMO that SM got a call away to MM, “I’m being followed, stay on the line, I don’t feel safe, I’m at Mt Clear, white Ute, the rego is…, he looks like…”. Left the phone on as long as possible. Maybe this was recorded (if it went to MMs voicemail). Maybe photo, video was sent by SM, before the accused allegedly attacked. Horrible to think, but maybe some sort of solid deliberate breadcrumb was left by SM using one or both devices (beyond just “pings”). A digital scratch on the face…

Again this doesn’t really fit with the police narrative in the early days. But police are running their own race on this (as they should). Eg despite all the huge public interest, search volunteers and media pressure, not to mention empathy to SM family, the accused seems to have been in custody for a long time before anyone, even MM knew. It was a 6am Wednesday arrest, informed MM of arrest late Wed, media stories broke the next day, and IIRC MM heard of the murder charge from media before detectives arrived to give the official word.
 
Same! My thoughts have been that Samantha was hit accidentally, still alive, perp panicked and intentionally killed her. Most cases I’m on board with different thoughts and we can go off on some wild goose chases. I said this earlier thread, and it is a strange feeling and I’m certainly not psychic, but something isn’t letting me stray from my thinking on this one.
No it was a delibarate act, you can't drive cars in that area for one.
 
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