Sheila and Katherine Lyon-sisters missing since 1975 - #1

[Richard]

Shadowangel makes my point. I am not suggesting any incompetence or anything sinister. A lot of those details are no doubt useless now, and would be available to the Lyons if they were interested. I know a few details about the case that haven't been made public, but I think they were stated to me in confidence and I don't think they would help solve the case. But what I am suggesting is that there would be value in publicizing a broad case history, because some one of these facts may well trigger something with a reader. There has always been reluctance to publicize some information, because it brings out the lunatics and may violate privacy or cause pain to the family. But I think issues of privacy should not be much of a factor after 30 years.

After the flurry of attention in the spring of 1975, the police have only publicized this twice - in 1982, when the Mileski yard was dug up, and 1987, when Coffey was questioned. I tend to think more information would be useful. We see here that just asking the police questions, as Richard does, yields potentially useful information - suppose DCNationalsfan finds those negatives?

You both make compelling arguments for release of more information. I do not speak for the police department, but I can see both sides of the argument. Privacy considerations do come into play even after 30 years.

Remember that police checked out every sexual deviant and everyone with a record of violence against children during the course of their investigation, along with other persons who just happened to be in the area at the time or who were thought by any tipster to have been involved. Obviously releasing any names might lead to law suits or to problems for those named.

You mention the lunatics. That could include a whole range of people, but one of the worst kind are the "confessers" who claim murders and confess to them just for thrills. On the other hand, someone knowing a lot about a case could frame someone that they do not like, especially with details.

Another factor to take into consideration is the feelings of the victim's family. Some might welcome any publicity in the case, while others might not.

That said, I agree with both of you that the police need to be more proactive in giving information to the public. Public safety depends not only on the police, but on interaction between the police and the citizens.

The case of the Unibomber is a perfect example of how getting information out to the public resulted in a capture. America's Most Wanted is another example of how effective publicizing cases and putting out information can be.

In regard to the Lyon girls' disappearance, there just isn't a lot of solid information to go on. Still, a simple statement of the facts and efforts on a recurring basis by the police might have gone a long way in separating fact from speculation, and might have produced some useful leads.

 

[Thrasher]

Well said. People do retain some privacy rights forever. But, for example, behavior by an unidentified individual in a certain location at a certain time, that was checked out and dismissed at the time, might be publicized now with no infringement. Also, consider people who are new to the area (and the Washington area has doubled in size since then) who have no personal memory of the case, but might come across something useful if they were aware of the basics.

There must be common sense and discretion. I saw a car last week in Bethesda with Maryland plates DMT 6; couldn't help but look in it, 30 years later. Someone less sane than I might cause a problem.

I am very aware of the concerns of the Lyon family - my sense is they don't want to be involved, they don't want "sympathy" publicity, but they don't object to bona fide pursuit of leads, even remote ones. Fortunately, they hav a family member in the MCP to provide that liaison role.

 

[shadowangel]

What I saw in print is not only theory, some of it is factual. For example; TRM is fact, I saw him twice back in 75. I have since talked to LE on three occations & they have supported much of what has been printed about the case.
I also find it hard to believe that while this so-called "plan" was happening, the two girls just happened to be talking to someone else of possible ill intent(TRM), just minutes before they vanished.
Does this "plan" which you talk about have any substance behind it,or is it just theory? There could be many theories,with an immaginative mind. The facts in this case,such as TRM,Fred Coffey & the abductor, could & probably are the same person.

:clap: :clap: :clap:

 

[shadowangel]

Keep in mind that the same thing was asked in Idaho---How could one person control and kill two adults, a teenager, and then disappear with two children?

Manipulated properly by someone with experience and the appearance of authority, 12- and 10-year old girls could be controlled by a single person. Did this happen? I have no idea. But the possibility sould not be discounted.

 

[Jeana (DP)]

I want to say hello and welcome our new members. Considering that I have a 20+ year unsolved murder in my own family, I appreciate that so many intelligent, dedicated individuals are coming together to discuss this case.

I need to ask one small favor though. When responding to a HUGE post, please do not hit the reply button because it copies the entire post along with your response. OR, if you do hit the reply button, please edit down the size of the post that you're responding to. It will keep this thread down to a minimum number of pages and makes reading easier.

Thanks very much and again, welcome to you all.

 

[Jeana (DP)]

By the way Members, I'm asking admin of Websleuths to create a separate forum for this case so that you may break the threads down by topic. I'll let you know very soon!!

 

[Jeana (DP)]

Rudeness will also get you a three-day time out, so cool it both of you.

 

[Thrasher]

This scenario was speculated about much at the time, and the phrase "white slaver" was in the air. And while it is certainly a possibility that they were delivered into prostitution or some type of captivity, nothing about the case suggests that the Lyon girls were targeted. There would be much easier children to abduct, and in easier fashion. The girls decided spontaneously to go to Wheaton Plaza that day; are we to believe that a conspiracy was monitoring their movements for months, ready to spring into action? They didn't even go to Wheaton Plaza often. And why abduct the children of a well-known local personality? There was no history of children abducted and sold into prostitution in this area then, and very little evidence of it since.

I think one does better to start with recognized facts - a mysterious man with a tape recorder, a person nearby with the history of Coffey. There is just no evidence of conspiracy or elaborate planning.

 

[T'sNana]

I don't see any elaborate planning in this case either. I don't think it was a split second idea, but I don't believe it was planned out either. Sad case!

 

[Richard]

... The only report of vehicles involved in the case was A beige station wagon, & a blue Falcon station wagon, to the best of my knowledge. ...

This is the same information that I have as well. I would point out that these two vehicles were the only ones mentioned in the press.

The blue Falcon station wagon covered in bumper stickers was mentioned first, and only once. This appeared in a Washington Post story and the source was an interview with the head of security at Iverson Mall in Prince Georges County. He stated that Montgomery County Police had briefed him and his 16 man security team on the Tape Recorder Man (TRM) suspect, and that they mentioned the blue Falcon Station wagon at the same time.

I asked MCP detectives about this and they believe that the source was correct in mentioning the two subjects (TRM and the Falcon), but that they were actually two separate tips. While TRM remains unidentified to this day, MCP believes that the Blue Falcon station wagon came from a report about a woman driving such a car with two children who looked like the Lyon sisters. That woman was subsequently located and it turned out that the girls in the car with her were her own two daughters, not the Lyon girls.

The 1968 Beige Ford station wagon with Maryland license plate DMT-6?? played a big part in the story of the Lyon sisters. This car was not seen until two weeks had passed from their disappearance. The source was an IBM executive who claimed to have seen such a car being driven by someone who resembled the TRM suspect sketch (which had already appeard several times in newspapers and on television). His report was that he saw the car during 7:30 morning rush hour traffic in Manassas, VA and that there appeared to be two girls in the back tied up. He stated that he tried following it, but that the driver ran a red light and got away. The story of the Beige Sation Wagon fueled the public imagination and interest and became part of the Lyon Sisters story.

Police interviewed the IBM man several times and he never changed his story. He did not appear to be trying to gain attention or fame, but simply reported what he felt he saw. All combinations of the license plate were run and police checked out each car and owner, with no luck. They also checked with other states which had similar color plates with similar letter-number combinations.

While a van might indeed be a vehicle of choice, as seen in many other abduction cases, I have not seen any reports of one being used or suspected in the Lyon case. I am not saying that it is not possible, but I have never seen any report of such a vehicle connected to these missing girls.

 

[WendyE4]

Hi everyone....

This thread is what brought me to this site. I grew up in Northern Virginia and was 13 years old when the Lyons sisters went missing. I rememeber it being a really big deal and as a kid the same age, I rememeber me and all my friends were scared and suspicious of anyone driving a station wagon.

This case touched me deeply, and still does today. I remember about two weeks after they were missing, I was at a slumber party with a bunch of my girlfriends and there was something on TV about the case and we started talking about it, and I just burst into tears. When asked what was wrong I told my friends that I felt deeply how afraid and scared the girls must have been and how horrible it would be to be taken from my family. I remember this vividly. After that slumber party, my friends avoided the subject of the Lyons girls because "Wendy took this really hard" and they didn't want me to get upset again.

Anyway, I've thought of this case many times over the years and was really happy to see that there are so many people that still care about this case.

I don't have any information to provide or anything significant to say about this case, other than what I've already stated.......but I'm troubled by this case after all these years and wonder if this crime will ever be solved.

This case has obviously touched thousands of people and with interest still so alive after all these years, it's unimaginable to me that this case has not been solved.

What are the opinions here -- will this case ever be solved or will it remain a mystery forever?

 

[Jeana (DP)]

Now that this case has its own forum, please feel free to start new threads!!

 

[Richard]

At the time that the girls disappeared, there was as much or more speculation about how or why they disappeard as there is today.

The passage of time, the ongoing investigation, and the extensive searches have perhaps ruled out some of the early and obvious suggestions that they simply ran away together. Police investigators really did not believe that from the start, but the possibility of the girls running away, or accidentally falling into a pool, etc was suggested and was pretty much disproved. No evidence was ever produced or discovered to indicate that a family member had anything to do with their disappearance.

The most likely cause of their disappearance, then, would have been abduction by a person or persons not related to them. Because there is no direct evidence, as to how the abduction took place, it is purly conjecture as to whether only one person or more than one person was involved. And it is also conjecture as to whether the girls got into a vehicle quietly or with a struggle.

As has been pointed out, if brute force were to be used - that is grabbing and subduing the girls and driving away with them - perhaps two or more individuals using a closed type of vehicle (such as a work van) would have been required. Such an attempt would probably have been noticed by someone in that parking lot - or at least the strong possibility of an eyewitness sighting would have been a consideration of the abductors. To be effective, such an attempt would have relied largely upon precise timing and luck. Passage of time would tend to argue against such a risky team effort. Other similar attempts would have been noticed and sooner or later one of the abductors might have talked.

The single abductor scenario, would tend to fit other known bits of information related to the girls' last day. The Tape Recorder Man TRM was seen talking to them a short time before they disappeared, and he disappeared at the same time. It would not have been impossible for him to have had an accomplice, but it seems unlikely. He was always seen acting alone in his pursuit of "interviews", and he had built raport with probably a number of young teen girls. He was weird, and was remembered by people who saw him. Would he have attempted a "strong-arm" abduction of two girls in a parking lot in broad daylight? Probably not. It would be more like him to engage the girls in pleasant conversation, put them at ease and, like the "kindly old man" that he wanted them to think he was - offer them a ride home.

TRM had spoken with the girls that day, but he had been seen at Wheaton Plaza on at least three other occasions. Perhaps he had spoken with them earlier as well. He could have learned that their father was a radio man and he may have pretended to know him. If TRM had approached the girls in his car, he was not a "stranger" to them, since they had spoken at least once before.

Fred Coffey Jr. has been mentioned a number of times in this thread. Fred was known to be in the Wheaton, MD area soon after the girls disappearance. He might or might not have been there on 25 March 1975. A look at Fred Coffey's methods might be of interest in the discussion of whether or not one man could abduct a young teen girl or girls.

While still in the Navy, stationed in Norfolk VA, in 1974, Fred Coffey saw the 13 year-old daughter of a fellow Navy man going into a convience store. When she came out, he drove up in his car and told the girl that her parents had been in a bad traffic accident and that he had been asked to find her and bring her to the hospital. Knowing Coffey, she willingly got into his car. Instead of taking her to a hospital, Fred drove her to a beach where he raped her. With Civilian court rape charges pending, the Navy declined to re-enlist Coffey, and he got an honorable discharge on 17 Sept 1974.

He was in Wheaton, Maryland by April (possibly earlier) 1975 to begin work at VITRO Laboratories, a defense contractor who had contracts with the Navy. Fred Coffey left Maryland abruptly in late July (immediately after the unsolved abduction and murder of 14 year-old Kathy Beatty of Wheaton, MD). He left without giving VITRO notice. He later wrote to them to request his final paycheck (thru 31 July 1975), and to explain his sudden departure: He claimed, falsly, that he had left because his wife and daughter had been in a Terrible Traffic accident. This seems to be a favorite story of Fred's because he again used the same lie to explain his sudden departure from another employer (also under suspicious circumstances). Could Fred have used a similar lie to get the Lyon sisters into his car?

By October 1975, Fred was back in Virginia Beach, VA where he was arrested and charged with contributing to the delinquency of a minor - a 15 year-old girl. There are numerous other instances of children going off willingly with old Fred, and then turning up later molested and/or murdered. It is a matter of public record that Fred Coffey admitted to having molested over a hundred children. Fred always acted alone without accomplices in his known history. He liked to use various devices to attract children, like fishing poles and metal detectors.

Now I am not saying that Fred Coffey, Jr. was TRM. But he certainly is a likely candidate for that distinction. And I am not saying that he abducted the Lyon girls, but he certainly did abduct and murder others, and he proved that he could do it alone and without a "struggle".

 

[Thrasher]

Richard has summarized very well the mainstream thinking about this case for most of the past thirty years. Mercifully, there are few people around like Coffey - but this makes him more of a suspect. There was no TRM before Coffey came to the area, and none after he left. He left under false pretenses, soon after the disappearance and another crime against a child near his place of employment. He is associated with the disappearance or assault of more than a hundred children in several states, often with elaborate lures. No other serious suspect has ever been identified.

For reasons that have been shown, there are no other likely theories. I have known runaways, and I have known the Lyon family for many years, and I can't think of a less likely runaway situation. A forcible abduction, unwitnessed, at that time, in Wheaton is almost impossible. The girls were smart and aware, but as Mary Lyon was quoted in one article at the time, they could have fallen for a story that got them into a car. Coffey remains the prime suspect, and we can only hope that some evidence will tie him to the crime (or clear him) someday. He might see fit to confess before he dies.

 

[Richard]

.... A forcible abduction, unwitnessed, at that time, in Wheaton is almost impossible. The girls were smart and aware, but as Mary Lyon was quoted in one article at the time, they could have fallen for a story that got them into a car. Coffey remains the prime suspect, and we can only hope that some evidence will tie him to the crime (or clear him) someday. He might see fit to confess before he dies.

The article that you are referring to was published in the Washington Post on Thursday, 24 April 1975. It was a long article about the Lyons and how they were coping with the loss of Katherine and Sheila one month after their disappearance.

Here is how the article quoted Mary Lyon in regard to her thoughts on what may have happened that day:

quote >> Mrs. Lyon said when she heard that the girls wer last seen walking along Drumm Avenue, in the direction of their home, the day they disappeared, " I said well, they were being good girls, heading home on time."

The girls, who had walked to Wheaton Plaza a large shopping center about half a mile from their home about 11 a.m. that day, were expected home about 4 p.m.

"So I tried to figure out what would make them get in a car.", mused Mrs. Lyon. "They must have gotten in a car with someone they knew or maybe someone pulled up and screamed, 'Your mother has been hit by a car and your father has gone to the hospital with her. They asked me to pick you up and take you to them.'"

"They are naive enough to fall for a line like that," their mother said. "I guess even I might believe that," she added.<< unquote.

Ironically, Fred Howard Coffey, Jr. began work at Vitro Laboratories in Aspen Hill (Wheaton) on the very day this article appeared. He had been convicted in Virginia only a few months earlier of raping a 13-year-old girl, whom he had abducted in EXACTLY the same manner described by Mary Lyon during her interview with the reporter.

Fred Coffey would not become known as a possible suspect to Montgomery County Police for another 12 years. During the interim, he would be involved in numerous sexual offenses and violence against children, age 3 through 15.

Coffey seemed to have been fond of telling false stories about serious car accidents. When he suddenly quit his job with Vitro in July 1975, he told his employer that his wife and daughter had been injured in a Kentucky car accident. Police investigators later learned that the story was false and that it was identical to one he used in leaving another job.

Vitro Laboratories had four different office locations in Montgomery County, Maryland. The one in Aspen Hill was located at the northwest intersection of Connecticut and Georgia Avenues. Its parking lot was adjacent to a large neighborhood of single family houses. On 24 July 1975, Kathy Lynn Beatty, age 14, was last seen by friends at Parkland Junior High School on Frankfort Ave, in Aspen Hill. Kathy's mother was away for the evening and she was walking around her neighborhood, barefoot and alone.

Kathy was found badly beaten and sexually molested early on the morning of 25 July behind the K-Mart on Connecticut Ave, directly across from Vitro Laboratories. A line drawn between Frankfort Ave, and the K-Mart goes right through Vitro's parking lot. The Washington Post ran a very short article about Kathy which stated that she was alive in the hospital, but in serious condition. Fred Coffey immediately blew town. He later wrote to Vitro with the aforementioned car accident story and asked that his last paycheck (through 31 July 1975) be mailed to him. Kathy later died of her injuries, never regaining conciousness.

 

[Thrasher]

This states well why I think Coffey will always be the prime suspect. And for those not familiar with the area, the Aspen Hill area of the Beatty murder and where Vitro was is just a few miles up Georgia Avenue from Wheaton Plaza. There just weren't that many predators of this type in Montgomery County in 1975, and these few incidents coincide with Coffey's presence.

When you (Richard) said in a post in October that you thought you can assure us that MCP is still very much interested in Coffey, what does that imply? Is it a matter of continuing to seek connections, or, as we discussed earlier, negotiating with his lawyer and with North Carolina authorities?

 

[Richard]

....
When you (Richard) said in a post in October that you thought you can assure us that MCP is still very much interested in Coffey, what does that imply? Is it a matter of continuing to seek connections, or, as we discussed earlier, negotiating with his lawyer and with North Carolina authorities?

I had met with the two MCP detectives in charge of the Lyon Sisters' case on 20 September 2005 and spoke with them for about two hours. I showed them my file of news clippings, downloads, maps, etc and allowed them to copy all they wanted of it. We discussed the Tape Recorder Man and his possible connection to the case, as well as other sightings of him.

Fred Coffey was also discussed. The detectives were well aware of him and his history, and they were interested in information which I had on him. I was not informed or made privy to any potential negotiations with either Coffey's lawyer or with North Carolina authorities, so I cannot comment or even speculate on that possibility.

Coffey came to MCP attention in 1987, 12 years after the Lyon sisters' disappearance and Kathy Beatty's murder. At that time, North Carolina authorities in Mecklenburg-Charlotte had him on a murder charge for killing 10-year-old Amanda Ray in 1979. It had taken them a long time to get the evidence against him, and they did not want anything to interfere with a successful prosecution. Hence, they were not allowing other jurisdictions to question Coffey and were not entertaining thoughts of turning him over to other states. Coffey was eventually convicted and sentenced to Death, and then came all the appeals. In 1995, his death sentence was reconsidered and he got Life with the possibility of immediate parole.

Meanwhile, MCP worked very hard trying to connect Coffey to the Maryland cases. They know where he worked, have a motel address for him, knew what vehicles he drove or had access to, and other information about him. Some trails had gone cold, some records were destroyed over the years. In 1987, they put out a request to the public to see if anyone had any information about his time in Maryland. To date, the kind of evidence necessary to prosecute him in a court of law has not been found.

I might point out that although Coffey is a convicted child molester and murderer, who certainly had the personality, background, and skills to abduct and murder these girls, he has never admitted to it. In fact, he has never admitted even to killing Amanda Ray, whom he was convicted of murdering.

His admission to having molested over a hundred children is a matter of court record in North Carolina, but he only pled guilty to nine specific counts against three children. He was also convicted in Virginia of raping a 13 year old girl and of "contributing to the delinquency of a minor" with a 15 year old girl. The first just prior to his Maryland stay and the second just after it.

Coffey's admissions were most likely legal maneuverings arranged by his lawyer in an effort to minimize punishment, rather than any kind of remorse or real feelings of wrong doing on Coffey's part. That is only my opinion, however, and I would certainly welcome any input on the subject from Mr.
Coffey.

Coffey traveled extensively and had connections and residences in several states, among them; North Carolina, Virginia, Maryland, Kentucky, and California. He served in the Navy from 1962 until 17 September 1974, and did much traveling during that time. He was married three times. There may be other convictions or arrests in other states which have been filed away and forgotten. He had some aliases, and might have been convicted under another name somewhere.

He is a suspect in several other child murders in Virginia and North Carolina. But even if convicted of them, Maryland authorities would still need evidence linking him to the Lyon and Beatty cases to bring him to trial. I cannot say what evidence they have or what they are checking out, as these are both open investigations.

 

[Thrasher]

Give Montgomery County Police credit for persistence - in 2001, Dagoberto Marin was charged in connection with a relationship he had with a 7th grade student while teaching at Newport Junior High School in 1974-75. (Interestingly, Sheila Lyon was a 7th grade student at Newport in 1974-75.)

They won't give up.

 

[Richard]

It is March, and the weather in Maryland is alternating between cold and warm, sunny and rainy, windy and calm. It was on a warm, sunny day in March - a Tuesday, the 25th, 1975, that Sheila and Katherine Lyon went for a visit to Wheaton Plaza Shopping Center. School was out for spring break, Easter was approaching, and each girl had a birthday coming up...

31 years have passed since that day, and they are still missing.

 

[ShurlT]

Hi everyone. I'm new to the forum but have watched the accounts posted here since October of 04 or 05. My heart goes out to the Lyon family as the anniversary date approaches and they will be in my prayers as usual.
I have some questions for Richard or anyone who may know. Also some thoughts have come to mind that I've wondered about for some time.

1. Since Fred Coffey, Jr. was in the area when the composites of TRM were in the newspapers April 1; 2; 4 and 17 and he applied at Vitro on the 1st and started work on the 27th why didn't anyone at Vitro recognize him as the man in the composite?

2. If Coffey was still in the area until supposedly seen transporting the girls somewhere on the 7th why didn't he see the composite and leave the area for good? Could he have been at a motel outside the metropolitan area with the girls?

This is not meant to discredit the possibility that Fred Coffey, Jr could have been TRM. It just seems strange to me that the composite was shown so often in April and he still went to work for Vitro and no one reported his where abouts at the time from either Vitro or a motel, etc. and it makes sense to me that if he was the one who went to MCP claiming responsibility for being the one with the recorder interviewing young girls it would have been to protect the job he had applied for at Vitro. That ploy could have worked very well for him back then but nevertheless he was seen talking to them just prior to their disappearance. MCP must have gotten his name when he talked to them. Wouldn't they have kept an eye on him after that?

3. What's the possibility he might have changed one of the letters on the license plate number that was seen in Manassas, VA by painting over it with black/white paint, i.e. changing a B to D. It wouldn't show up from a distance.

4. If he actually was transporting the girls on the 7th was it because he knew he got the job, had to transfer the girls elsewhere and went back to VA, TN or NC to get the belongings he would need to live and work in the MD area?
What exactly was going on from the time the girls disappeared until Coffey went to work at Vitro?

I'll have to return later.
Thanks.