Sounds

[jay-jay]

Some questions which make it harder to make a theory as to how things happened cause I have hesitations to accept the below as fact.

1- Toilet door key : OP's version depends on the key being inside and the door locked. However ;

* The key chain at least had another key on it (possib.bedroom door key )and that is very unusual for an inside door to have keys altogether like that. why would another room's key be on the toilet door ? The green thingy rather makes it look like a spare set for the main bedroom.

* How did the key fall on the floor with the bat's hits? That lock mechanism should be turned right or left for unlock position for the key to fall down.
On the photos the key is on outside of the toilet door .Me thinks that could be the initial position and OP had to add that key found on the floor thing because if it hadn't fallen on the floor , OP wouldn't need to put it the other side where it is found but rather reach out his hand and turn the key to right or left.
That's why the affi explained this key found on the floor thing with detail which makes me suspect abt its truth.. (My interpretation )

* OP had the gun ready in hand with bullets .. he had previously shot thru the door.. Why not try to unlock the door with shotting at the lock part first instead of beating the door with the bat.

* Door panels rather looks to me taken out partially by hand ..not big crashes for the key to jump on the floor..

So, at some point that night OP might have locked her inside. Quite possibily between the two set of shots heard by Stipps imo. maybe to silence her hiding behind the door ...

Pure speculation and could be wrong

I've long thought that might well have been what happened and have never taken it at face value that Reeva locked herself in, as we have only ever had OP's word for that .. plus also those things you mention about that type of key just falling out of the door like that, I don't think that a key turned in a lock would come out that easily, if at all .. in fact I would much rather have seen them set up an experiment for that, rather than that 'gunshot v bat' sounds thing. I want to know exactly whether that key could've fallen onto the floor .. I don't personally think it could .. but then again, why would OP make up quite such an elaborate story about that when he could just as easily have said he put his hand in to reach round and take the key out of the lock? <<-- that is my only doubt about him having locked her in there. Then again, if he had picked that key up off the floor, then I'm sure it would've had blood smears all over it, yet it looks pretty clean to me in the photos.

I'm wondering if the woman calling 'help, help, help' was when he was dragging her to the toilet to lock her in? .. and he was mocking her with his 'help, help, help'? I'm not sure if that fits the timescale though ..

 

[jay-jay]

and OP had to add that key found on the floor thing because if it hadn't fallen on the floor , OP wouldn't need to put it the other side where it is found but rather reach out his hand and turn the key to right or left.
That's why the affi explained this key found on the floor thing with detail which makes me suspect abt its truth.. (My interpretation )

Ahh, I see .. I've read that again now .. got you :thumb: .. yes, I agree.

 

[Hoosen_Fenger]

Hi Gerry..............nice summation.
Classic closing argument IMO

ps.

Fit the 5 witnesses to Reeva screaming in there somewhere please and we can get this scum where he belongs ..........................for the rest of his natural.............TIA.

Allan,

Indeed.

I'm not in the profession but I have spent my life trying to make people accountable for their actions.

I tried to ensure my post was close to the version OP is asking Reeva's family to believe.

Unfortunately, I cannot weave in the Witness testimony as I'm sure people could pick holes in the timings….

Even though my response was to someone clearly supporting OP, I want it to be taken into context with my desire that he gets a fair trial.

If he gets a fair trial, those of us living in the less privileged parts of the planet, with less money to access the lawyers that can absolve us of our crimes, will be happy.

In other words. Everyone should get the same treatment - regardless of wealth.

Kind regards,

HF

 

[Ncl1968]

I think with his wealth and popularity rapidly fading we will all get to see a fair trial

 

[44ALLAN]

Allan,

Indeed.

I'm not in the profession but I have spent my life trying to make people accountable for their actions.

I tried to ensure my post was close to the version OP is asking Reeva's family to believe.

Unfortunately, I cannot weave in the Witness testimony as I'm sure people could pick holes in the timings….

Even though my response was to someone clearly supporting OP, I want it to be taken into context with my desire that he gets a fair trial.

If he gets a fair trial, those of us living in the less privileged parts of the planet, with less money to access the lawyers that can absolve us of our crimes, will be happy.

In other words. Everyone should get the same treatment - regardless of wealth.

Kind regards,

HF

H_F,

My response to your post in question was a compliment whether taken as that or not.
Meaning.............the prosecution will probably use 90% of what you said in closing arguments because your summation of the facts and interpretation of the event is so probable as to be indisputable, even though consequential in parts .

Excellent post it really was thank you.

 

[jimmy73]

I know this is a sound thread but I have a view on the toilet door key, as discussed above.



I've always found it odd that OP mentioned retrieving it so specifically. However, I think there might be a simpler solution than her being locked in.



It makes sense for her to lock herself in, if she was in fear. I think she then removed the key as part of that panicked process.



OP then unnecessarily elaborated on finding the key that had 'fallen out' during the door breaking to cover for the fact that Reeva had removed it in feat whilst hiding in there.


Sent from my Windows Phone 8X by HTC using Tapatalk

 

[MURDERER_SERVANT]

Frank

I'm pretty sure that Frank ran upstairs to help/ save OP immediately after the shots .. My guess is the bedroom door was locked then and he didn't get inside.. maybe OP told him he's ok during some clean up .. And maybe Frank was the one who opened the front door for an ambulance and OP put it as if he went down and opened the front door.. as his version has no mention of Frank instead he mentions he called Stander for help him carry Reeva downstairs...

It just doesn't ring true to me that OP went downstairs to open the front door..

JMO

 

[cottonweaver]

Agree about the illogical notion of a locked door key popping out but let's say it did - any of you 6'\1.8m tall people out there - could you reach through the gap to get it even if the key fell close to the door?

From the crime scene photos you'd need to lean over the door panel from the hip at about 90cm and through a vertical gap which must be 15cm wide?

Here's the picture of the door with the break
http://juror13lw.files.wordpress.com/2014/04/10.jpg

Maybe it's easy and it's just hard for me because I'm not 6'!

Error - I mean the toilet door key not bathroom.

 

[Mr Fossil]

Agree about the illogical notion of a locked door key popping out but let's say it did - any of you 6'\1.8m tall people out there - could you reach through the gap to get it even if the key fell close to the door?

From the crime scene photos you'd need to lean over the door panel from the hip at about 90cm and through a vertical gap which must be 15cm wide?

Here's the picture of the door with the break
http://juror13lw.files.wordpress.com/2014/04/10.jpg

Maybe it's easy and it's just hard for me because I'm not 6'!

Error - I mean the toilet door key not bathroom.

Wasn't the whole panel was taken out by OP? Isn't this pic taken after the door is starting to be reconstructed on the 15th Feb? I'm 6ft tall and don't think I'd have any problem reaching a key on the floor through the opening. I don't think it impossible that the key could have fallen out when the door was bashed, (assuming it was in the door in the first place).

 

[Ncl1968]

Agree about the illogical notion of a locked door key popping out but let's say it did - any of you 6'\1.8m tall people out there - could you reach through the gap to get it even if the key fell close to the door?

From the crime scene photos you'd need to lean over the door panel from the hip at about 90cm and through a vertical gap which must be 15cm wide?

Here's the picture of the door with the break
http://juror13lw.files.wordpress.com/2014/04/10.jpg

Maybe it's easy and it's just hard for me because I'm not 6'!

Error - I mean the toilet door key not bathroom.

Looking at that photo.... The blood pool on the floor next to the toilet is clearly visible but what surprised me is the lack of blood splatter on the walls... Can't seem to work that out yet...

 

[Cherry]

I cannot wait until he is forced to face the music he started that night. It's been too long in coming for her family; and for her memory. I want him in a cell and not in a hospital, that's a fact.

 

[cottonweaver]

Wasn't the whole panel was taken out by OP? Isn't this pic taken after the door is starting to be reconstructed on the 15th Feb? I'm 6ft tall and don't think I'd have any problem reaching a key on the floor through the opening. I don't think it impossible that the key could have fallen out when the door was bashed, (assuming it was in the door in the first place).

Thanks- it must be cause I'm short that I couldn't imagine the stretch to reach they key.

Re the photos they are from Juror13
the one i linked is from 15th Feb as it says, but I'm pretty sure it pre reconstruction.
http://juror13lw.files.wordpress.com/2014/04/10.jpg

Here's one of the plank that OP got out in order to get the toilet door open- that's why I guessed 15cm wide.
http://juror13lw.files.wordpress.com/2014/04/18.jpg

there are photos from after they had rebuilt it on here
http://juror13lw.wordpress.com/2014/04/01/oscar-pistorius-new-crime-scene-pics/

 

[44ALLAN]

Agree about the illogical notion of a locked door key popping out but let's say it did - any of you 6'\1.8m tall people out there - could you reach through the gap to get it even if the key fell close to the door?

From the crime scene photos you'd need to lean over the door panel from the hip at about 90cm and through a vertical gap which must be 15cm wide?

Here's the picture of the door with the break
http://juror13lw.files.wordpress.com/2014/04/10.jpg

Maybe it's easy and it's just hard for me because I'm not 6'!

Error - I mean the toilet door key not bathroom.

I'm 1.88mtr tall and cannot for the life of me fathom out why OPwas not 'tested' on bending over the broken door frame to get the key from the floor......................but................
Nel maybes thinks he has enough to get him on premeditated(stone wall IMO) and doesn't want to muddy the waters any more hence why he didn't question about 'after' events and carrying reeva downstairs etc etc.

 

[james83]

Agree about the illogical notion of a locked door key popping out but let's say it did - any of you 6'\1.8m tall people out there - could you reach through the gap to get it even if the key fell close to the door?

From the crime scene photos you'd need to lean over the door panel from the hip at about 90cm and through a vertical gap which must be 15cm wide?

Here's the picture of the door with the break
http://juror13lw.files.wordpress.com/2014/04/10.jpg

Maybe it's easy and it's just hard for me because I'm not 6'!

Error - I mean the toilet door key not bathroom.

Yep, i've said before i believe it appears to be physically impossible for Oscar to have reached through that gap to pick the key up from the floor if as appears from the photo dated 15th feb 2013 that only one panel was removed.
Like you i also estimate that the height is around 90cm, it's worth bearing in mind that the average length of a male arm from shoulder to fingertip is only 75cm.

 

[PrimeSuspect]

Agree about the illogical notion of a locked door key popping out but let's say it did - any of you 6'\1.8m tall people out there - could you reach through the gap to get it even if the key fell close to the door?

From the crime scene photos you'd need to lean over the door panel from the hip at about 90cm and through a vertical gap which must be 15cm wide?

Here's the picture of the door with the break
http://juror13lw.files.wordpress.com/2014/04/10.jpg

Maybe it's easy and it's just hard for me because I'm not 6'!

Error - I mean the toilet door key not bathroom.

Yep, i've said before i believe it appears to be physically impossible for Oscar to have reached through that gap to pick the key up from the floor if as appears from the photo dated 15th feb 2013 that only one panel was removed.
Like you i also estimate that the height is around 90cm, it's worth bearing in mind that the average length of a male arm from shoulder to fingertip is only 75cm.

It seems the height is a bit deceiving with different photographs, in this one the bottom half of the door looks quite low, he would still need his shoulder into it though.

http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2014/03/12/article-2578951-1C3A1C4900000578-796_634x911.jpg

 

[lisasalinger]

Yep, i've said before i believe it appears to be physically impossible for Oscar to have reached through that gap to pick the key up from the floor if as appears from the photo dated 15th feb 2013 that only one panel was removed.
Like you i also estimate that the height is around 90cm, it's worth bearing in mind that the average length of a male arm from shoulder to fingertip is only 75cm.

BBM

The pic from Feb 15, shows the door partially reconstructed.

Oscar tore out almost the entire panel, with the exception of one small piece on the left side. This is how the door looked on Feb 14, see below.

 

[james83]

BBM

The pic from Feb 15, shows the door partially reconstructed.

Oscar tore out almost the entire panel, with the exception of one small piece on the left side. This is how the door looked on Feb 14, see below.

Thanks for clearing that up Lisa, the various pictures of the door in different states have always confused me.

 

[cottonweaver]

As I thought, daft question....

Thanks for all those replies and to LisaSalinger for the definitive answer.

At least I won't be doing myself any further injury trying this out at home! I'd even got the tape measure out.

 

[cottonweaver]

BBM

The pic from Feb 15, shows the door partially reconstructed.

Oscar tore out almost the entire panel, with the exception of one small piece on the left side. This is how the door looked on Feb 14, see below.

Wow. Never seen these door photos before even though when he was on the stand he talked about removing the whole panel ( Mind you he recounted it almost as if he merited a bravery award for his efforts. )

Having looked at the whole panel removed I am imagining his sheer panic, swearing and crying for himself whilst he was deconstructing that door panel a plank at a time with a full view of what he had done.
Let's hope as he struggled with the pieces with the clock against him, it was also dawning on him that this was something he wasn't gonna get away with this time.

 

[Ncl1968]

Wow. Never seen these door photos before even though when he was on the stand he talked about removing the whole panel ( Mind you he recounted it almost as if he merited a bravery award for his efforts. )

Having looked at the whole panel removed I am imagining his sheer panic, swearing and crying for himself whilst he was deconstructing that door panel a plank at a time with a full view of what he had done.
Let's hope as he struggled with the pieces with the clock against him, it was also dawning on him that this was something he wasn't gonna get away with this time.

And yet after seeing the damage he had done felt no need to cry or scream.. There was no point in his words