Theories On What Happened to Caylee Part #4

[JWG]

RE: Casey-think factoring into a few things...(e.g. the duct tape in hair, "spiteful b*tch", revenge/victim motivating her hasty/poor decisions)

Recommend watching the last released August Casey w/ G&C jailhouse video again...and the ramp up between Casey & Cindy. Cindy forces an issue => Casey's defense/distract/deflect mechanism kicks in...and Casey immediately becomes the victim..her actions are justified in her own way of thinking because, after all, she's the victim and no one understands...:furious:

Now...replay that sequence of behavior considering the last call Casey made to Cindy 6/16 7:06 PM that lasted 1 min 24 seconds. Cindy forced the issue of Casey becoming responsible for her daughter that night => Casey's actions become justified in her own mind. Last ditch attempt to Amy 13mins later...perhaps after the last dose of Rx has already been given...just gonna drop a drowsy/sleeping Caylee of with her, right? No luck...and the furious Casey you saw in that jailhouse video pulls out the duct tape. The state of mind you saw in that video is the state of mind she was in when that duct tape was applied...she was effectively in a rage. :furious: The heart sticker, in effect, to relieve her own guilt...IOW...directing the thought @ Caylee...this is Cindy's fault...not mine...I [Casey] love you [Caylee].​

Casey writes, "Diary of Days" directing the first half-to Cindy.​

"On the worst of worst days...Remember the words spoken" = 6/16 7:06PM phone call. IOW...when you find out Caylee's gone, I [Casey] want you [Cindy] to remember that I [Casey] called you [Cindy] for help, and you[Cindy] refused to help me => This is your [Cindy's] fault...not mine [Casey's].

"With great power...comes great consequence"= You [Cindy] thought you had the power to control me [Casey] through Caylee. And see what happened! This is your [Cindy's] fault!

"What is given can be taken away" = I [Casey] have the power. I [Casey] gave you [Cindy] Caylee, and I [Casey] had the power to take her away.​

The second verse, Casey directs to herself...​

"On the worst of worst days...Remember the words spoken" = Remember...this is her [Cindy's] fault...not yours [Casey's]

"Hold your head high, smile, laugh...tomorrow is a brand new day" = Remember...this is her [Cindy's] fault...not yours [Casey's]. Keep your [Casey's] power over her [Cindy]. Enjoy your [Casey's] life...otherwise, Cindy will have the joy of seeing you suffer from your own actions...can't let that happen at all costs = No admission of guilt...ever.

Since, IMHO, this line of thinking was powerful enough to fuel the murder...its certainly powerful enough to keep Casey from ever admitting to the crime..and giving Cindy the final/last victory.​

That was pretty chilling, especially after re-watching the video as you suggested. :nerves: I think your interpretation of the meaning behind the Diary of Days is spot on. :clap:

 

[It's Not the Nanny]

If the chloro thing is a dead end (i.e., a meaningless series of unrelated and useless details), then why is LE still so hot about searching for chloro evidence? They went to the Anthony's, after the body was found, and they were searching for chloro and the items to make it! It is specified in the warrant! They certainly seem to believe there is more to the chloro then we do. Why?

True.... don't have an answer for that.


The question I have is what did they see at the crime scene that would make them rush back to the house to look for the chloro items????

Why didn't they look for and take items to make chloro the first time they did a search of the home???

 

[JWG]

Texts with Amy on May 23 indicate Casey took Caylee to the Dr. for her cold. Texts on the following day indicate Caylee is suddenly a lot better. Wonder what the doctor prescribed or suggested she give Caylee? :waitasec:

May 23, 2008

KC AH 5/23/08 8:41AM I’ll have to let you know when I get done at the drs. I gave Caylee my cold.
AH KC And your bruised rib? I didn’t think those were contagious! Poor baby. Give her a hug for me.
KC AH 5/23/08 8:46AM At least her ribs are good. Ha ha. I know .. I feel terrible. I gave her some Amy love.
KC AH 5/23/08 11:19AM Big time. Stupid dr. Waiting sucks.
AH KC I'm under a table. Want to trade places?
KC AH 5/23/08 11:30AM Ha ha in a heart beat.
AH KC You have to keep your cold tho. That’s not part of the deal.
KC AH 5/23/08 11:32AM Ha ha d**n. What about the bruised rib?
AH KC Your’s too I'm afraid. This is a positionary change only. And yes, I believe I just made up a word.
KC AH 5/23/08 11:34AM That’s awesome. You crack me up.
AH KC I do my best. So after the show I'm going to go home and shower. I’ll just nap 'til we go.
KC AH 5/23/08 11:41AM Sounds good. I’ll be stuck here for at least another hour. So many kids.
AH KC So stop giving your kid colds! Geez! The show is about to end. I’ll be here another 30 to 45 minutes. Whatever works. Keep me posted.
KC AH 5/23/08 11:51AM I'm trying! This is the first time she has ever gotten sick. We made it almost 3 years. I’ll let you know.

May 24, 2008

AH KC How’s the kid doing with her cold?
KC AH 5/24/08 5:51PM She’s good. Barely sneezing anymore.
AH KC Good. Poor kid! I'm excited for tonight.

 

[Jersey*Girl]

Two thoughts....

RE: Chloroform in the trunk

It was generally discussed in the early stages of the case upon the release of forensics supporting an elevated level of chloroform that stain removers, etc. utilize chloroform. More recently another poster suggested, yet I haven't seen much else of it...BOTH the elevated level of chloroform in the trunk AND at least one of the cadaver dog alerts in the backyard would possibly be explained by Cindy using her Bissel steam cleaner and some spot remover on the trunk. That poster suggested Cindy dumped the resulting water in the backyard, hence, the cadaver dog alert. I am liking this proposal more & more over time. I'd add to it that IIRC, the portion of the trunk that was stained was the removable mat over the spare tire, hence, the whole mat may have been taken to the backyard and cleaned there. As JWG has offered in the computer forensic search, chloroform searches on the PC in March may have been completely unrelated...just maybe...

This opens things up more for the use of other medications resulting in the o.d. of Caylee. Sadly, owing to the slow-acting nature of the OTC's Casey might've been accustomed to using...Casey may have applied the more-is-better principle since she would've been trying to be covert about Caylee being in the car. Furthermore, if Caylee was just drowsey...and not 'knocked out' by the Rx...the duct tape with the heart sticker may have come into play to enable Casey to get back to the apartment before her protracted absence became suspicious. As another poster suggested...the heart sticker made light of the situation and helped Casey forgive whatever guilt she might've felt, even if ever-so-briefly, for her actions. If Casey had been smokin'/drinkin' that afternoon and in a hurry to get back to the apartment...obviously exercising ueber-grossly poor judgement and negligent behavior...the tape getting caught in the hair would just be a detail she'd handle later...I mean...it is 10-min-@-time-Casey, right?!?

FWIW, IF...big IF...as she commented to Amy in texts, Casey had a bruised rib in May whilst she had the flu/cold. Casey commented to Amy 5/21 about having anti-inflammatory Rx to treat the flu & bruised rib, "Works for me! I'm not feeling worse. Found out I have a bruised rib. At least I have nice pills for my flu and I’ll be popping anti-inflammatories like there’s no tomorrow.". So...who knows what Rx Casey had in her purse. If she'd used OTC's to speed/extend Caylee's naps...maybe she just upped the ante w/ her own Rx on a spur of the moment decision when her 'flurry' of calls finally failed...7:20PM.​

RE: Casey-think factoring into a few things...(e.g. the duct tape in hair, "spiteful b*tch", revenge/victim motivating her hasty/poor decisions)

Recommend watching the last released August Casey w/ G&C jailhouse video again...and the ramp up between Casey & Cindy. Cindy forces an issue => Casey's defense/distract/deflect mechanism kicks in...and Casey immediately becomes the victim..her actions are justified in her own way of thinking because, after all, she's the victim and no one understands...:furious:

Now...replay that sequence of behavior considering the last call Casey made to Cindy 6/16 7:06 PM that lasted 1 min 24 seconds. Cindy forced the issue of Casey becoming responsible for her daughter that night => Casey's actions become justified in her own mind. Last ditch attempt to Amy 13mins later...perhaps after the last dose of Rx has already been given...just gonna drop a drowsy/sleeping Caylee of with her, right? No luck...and the furious Casey you saw in that jailhouse video pulls out the duct tape. The state of mind you saw in that video is the state of mind she was in when that duct tape was applied...she was effectively in a rage. :furious: The heart sticker, in effect, to relieve her own guilt...IOW...directing the thought @ Caylee...this is Cindy's fault...not mine...I [Casey] love you [Caylee].​

Casey writes, "Diary of Days" directing the first half-to Cindy.​

"On the worst of worst days...Remember the words spoken" = 6/16 7:06PM phone call. IOW...when you find out Caylee's gone, I [Casey] want you [Cindy] to remember that I [Casey] called you [Cindy] for help, and you[Cindy] refused to help me => This is your [Cindy's] fault...not mine [Casey's].

"With great power...comes great consequence"= You [Cindy] thought you had the power to control me [Casey] through Caylee. And see what happened! This is your [Cindy's] fault!

"What is given can be taken away" = I [Casey] have the power. I [Casey] gave you [Cindy] Caylee, and I [Casey] had the power to take her away.​

The second verse, Casey directs to herself...​

"On the worst of worst days...Remember the words spoken" = Remember...this is her [Cindy's] fault...not yours [Casey's]

"Hold your head high, smile, laugh...tomorrow is a brand new day" = Remember...this is her [Cindy's] fault...not yours [Casey's]. Keep your [Casey's] power over her [Cindy]. Enjoy your [Casey's] life...otherwise, Cindy will have the joy of seeing you suffer from your own actions...can't let that happen at all costs = No admission of guilt...ever.

Since, IMHO, this line of thinking was powerful enough to fuel the murder...its certainly powerful enough to keep Casey from ever admitting to the crime..and giving Cindy the final/last victory.​

Extremely plausible imo! Also, you took the meaning from her poem the exact same way I did.

 

[JWG]

Noticed a post by DotsEyes on the "Digital Forensic Evidence from Ricardo M" thread that chloroform is found in dryer sheets. I typed "dryer sheet chloroform" into Google and came up with a bunch of health-conscious websites making that claim.

When impounded, KC's trunk was found to have a dryer sheet in it. A dryer sheet (referred to as air freshener sheet) was removed from the middle of the car's back seat.

The trash bag taken from the trunk had four dryer sheets (referred to as air freshener sheets) in it.

Hmmmm.....

 

[Emma Peel]

Perhaps this has been mentioned, but the visual of removing stained carpet, etc and laying it in the yard for cleaning - as mentioned in a previous posts today - makes me wonder if THAT could be the source of the dogs hitting in the back yard area. Is a transference of scent (decomp) from car-carpet to back yard - is that a possibility? Clearly, the cadaver dogs have an opinion here - although they can't post - I like to remember their input too ... woof!

 

[Rumpole]

If the chloro thing is a dead end (i.e., a meaningless series of unrelated and useless details), then why is LE still so hot about searching for chloro evidence? They went to the Anthony's, after the body was found, and they were searching for chloro and the items to make it! It is specified in the warrant! They certainly seem to believe there is more to the chloro then we do. Why?

My evaluation of the evidence that we have seen so far is that Cloroform search on computer and chloroform found in the trunk are both easily explained and certainly easily argued away in court to a "reasonable doubt" standard.
I would NOT for a second suggest LE should stop investigating possible chloroform involvement! It could be a great thread of evidence. However they would need to have more evidence than they have shared with the public, or find more evidence, such as cotainers etc or perhaps toxicology evidence from the remains.

 

[shadow of my mind]

Noticed a post by DotsEyes on the "Digital Forensic Evidence from Ricardo M" thread that chloroform is found in dryer sheets. I typed "dryer sheet chloroform" into Google and came up with a bunch of health-conscious websites making that claim.

When impounded, KC's trunk was found to have a dryer sheet in it. A dryer sheet (referred to as air freshener sheet) was removed from the middle of the car's back seat.

The trash bag taken from the trunk had four dryer sheets (referred to as air freshener sheets) in it.

Hmmmm.....

Hmmmm is right.... but I would think that if dryer sheets had such huge levels of chloroform in them to make the air test show a heavy concentration that you would have had people picketing in front of the stores that sold them. I remember way back when I was in grade school there was this big hubbub about breathing formaldehyde from newspapers because it was found to part of processing of the printing ink. IIRC you would have to swim in the ink for it do you any harm.
I can't even find a figure of what the % of concentration of chloroform is in a dryer sheet.
I am going to go out on a limb here and say I would think it would take a whole lot of those sheets to cause an abnormal level in a car trunk. I going to ask this on our Q&A thread and see if any of our chemist type members can chime in on this.

 

[suspicious1]

Hmmmm is right.... but I would think that if dryer sheets had such huge levels of chloroform in them to make the air test show a heavy concentration that you would have had people picketing in front of the stores that sold them. I remember way back when I was in grade school there was this big hubbub about breathing formaldehyde from newspapers because it was found to part of processing of the printing ink. IIRC you would have to swim in the ink for it do you any harm.
I can't even find a figure of what the % of concentration of chloroform is in a dryer sheet.
I am going to go out on a limb here and say I would think it would take a whole lot of those sheets to cause an abnormal level in a car trunk. I going to ask this on our Q&A thread and see if any of our chemist type members can chime in on this.

Hey I just read an article about dryer sheets and the chemicals that they contain. I didn't know that dryer sheets (wet) can be used to clean stains. Has anyone else heard of this? It's news to me. The article also stated that dryer sheets are nothing more than cloths soaked in fabric softner which is dispersed onto the clothing by the HEAT caused from the dryer. If KC had these dryer sheets in the car (in the trunk in FLA heat), supposedly to make the car smell better, would the heat produce the chemicals in high levels? I'm just thinking that maybe the chloroform came from those dryer sheets. Since learning that KC had dryer sheets in her car, my first thought was why would she have those in her car. To make it smell better? Why not just get the stuff used spcifically for a car. I think it's more to the story.

I'm beginning to think that Caylee's death had nothing to do with chloroform. I think that KC's computer search was nothing more than her trying to find out what it was after seeing it on RM myspace page and just so happen she used dryer sheets to cover up the smell of human decomp which also contained chloroform.

 

[Hot Dogs]

Two air freshener sheets were found in the car by evidence technicians. One was between the seats and the other was in the trunk. If GA and/or CA had thoroughly cleaned out the car - I would expect them to throw away these items. But instead they were there.

Four freshener sheets were found inside the white trash bag (with lots of other trash) and so it seems that these may have originated from AL's house.

I guess what I'm thinking is that if G and/or C really had endeavored to clean the car (esp the trunk) they would have pitched the freshener sheets that had been sitting in all that stink. Either they didn't do that, or they placed new freshener from their house.

 

[Pink Panther]

Two air freshener sheets were found in the car by evidence technicians. One was between the seats and the other was in the trunk. If GA and/or CA had thoroughly cleaned out the car - I would expect them to throw away these items. But instead they were there.

Four freshener sheets were found inside the white trash bag (with lots of other trash) and so it seems that these may have originated from AL's house.

I guess what I'm thinking is that if G and/or C really had endeavored to clean the car (esp the trunk) they would have pitched the freshener sheets that had been sitting in all that stink. Either they didn't do that, or they placed new freshener from their house.

Maybe not. I dated a guy once who sold used cars and he told me that when they would clean the interiors of cars, they would often toss freshener sheets under the seats to give the car a fresh smell...

 

[JWG]

Hmmmm is right.... but I would think that if dryer sheets had such huge levels of chloroform in them to make the air test show a heavy concentration that you would have had people picketing in front of the stores that sold them. I remember way back when I was in grade school there was this big hubbub about breathing formaldehyde from newspapers because it was found to part of processing of the printing ink. IIRC you would have to swim in the ink for it do you any harm.
I can't even find a figure of what the % of concentration of chloroform is in a dryer sheet.
I am going to go out on a limb here and say I would think it would take a whole lot of those sheets to cause an abnormal level in a car trunk. I going to ask this on our Q&A thread and see if any of our chemist type members can chime in on this.

I've pointed out previously that the forensic report did not indicate level of concentration. They simply said "unusually large" and "far higher than what is typically seen in human decomposition". Neither of those are defined. That is...does "typical" mean 10 ppm and "unusually large" mean 20 ppm? Those numbers are critical to know in order to eliminate dryer sheets and cleaning solutions.

 

[Steely Dan]

I forgot about KC's cold and her bruised rib and her Rx for the cold. (of course, when I read it the first time, I was under the impression that she was just avoiding Amy.....)

Love your analysis on the Diary of Days!!! Bravo. Remember the chilling, "You don't know what MY part is in this???"

I forget where that's from. :waitasec:

I heard about it on the news. I usually watched Fox News, so it was probably on that station. Now I watch CNN. I know I didn't see it on Montell b/c I haven't had the time to watch Montell in years. Also, I had no idea it was in Rochester, only heard about it happening in general. I don't even remember if it was a big scoop or just something mentioned during the time that they were talking about baby cold meds being de-shelved. Needless to say, it made me think about the side effects of those types of otc meds in small children. I won't even let my 14 year old have Vicks Nyquil Nighttime medicine to help him when he's sick. Now I do the good old fashion method of Vicks on the chest, Vicks under the nose to open up the passage, Chicken soup, and hot tea or ginger ale. I've never once given my kids anything to help them sleep when they're not sick and I think it's sick that there's actually people out there that do that. I'm just grateful for hearing about it b/c it made me think. I also think it might have had something to do with the govt / fda taking baby meds off of the shelves. Maybe I'm wrong there, not sure.

I'm just surprised that it became a national story. I guess it is salacious enough to make it there.

Smart idea with the kids, you shouldn't make them OTC drug dependent. :thumb:

 

[It's Not the Nanny]

Texts with Amy on May 23 indicate Casey took Caylee to the Dr. for her cold. Texts on the following day indicate Caylee is suddenly a lot better. Wonder what the doctor prescribed or suggested she give Caylee? :waitasec:

May 23, 2008

KC AH 5/23/08 8:41AM I’ll have to let you know when I get done at the drs. I gave Caylee my cold.
AH KC And your bruised rib? I didn’t think those were contagious! Poor baby. Give her a hug for me.
KC AH 5/23/08 8:46AM At least her ribs are good. Ha ha. I know .. I feel terrible. I gave her some Amy love.
KC AH 5/23/08 11:19AM Big time. Stupid dr. Waiting sucks.
AH KC I'm under a table. Want to trade places?
KC AH 5/23/08 11:30AM Ha ha in a heart beat.
AH KC You have to keep your cold tho. That’s not part of the deal.
KC AH 5/23/08 11:32AM Ha ha d**n. What about the bruised rib?
AH KC Your’s too I'm afraid. This is a positionary change only. And yes, I believe I just made up a word.
KC AH 5/23/08 11:34AM That’s awesome. You crack me up.
AH KC I do my best. So after the show I'm going to go home and shower. I’ll just nap 'til we go.
KC AH 5/23/08 11:41AM Sounds good. I’ll be stuck here for at least another hour. So many kids.
AH KC So stop giving your kid colds! Geez! The show is about to end. I’ll be here another 30 to 45 minutes. Whatever works. Keep me posted.
KC AH 5/23/08 11:51AM I'm trying! This is the first time she has ever gotten sick. We made it almost 3 years. I’ll let you know.

May 24, 2008

AH KC How’s the kid doing with her cold?
KC AH 5/24/08 5:51PM She’s good. Barely sneezing anymore.
AH KC Good. Poor kid! I'm excited for tonight.

This is like "The Boy Who Cried Wolf", right? See, I barely ever believe anything KC says anymore because so much of it has proven to be a lie. Maybe the girl did speak the truth once in a while???

Maybe she was sick....and maybe she did give her cold to Caylee....and just maybe KC was given some meds for her cold that she later gave to Caylee.

I read this text exchange as KC avoiding meeting up with AH. The next day KC says they are better and that Caylee isn't even "sneezing" anymore.

I have two kids.....the cold isn't miraculously over when the sneezing stops. Usually it's when the runny nose and coughing are gone.

I also remember an interview (Lord, I have no idea where) where Cyndi says KC would call her and ask if she should take Caylee in to get her ears checked whenever she was sick, stuff like that so I don't believe this was Caylee's VERY FIRST COLD and was virus free for her almost 3 years of life.

 

[publius]

This is like "The Boy Who Cried Wolf", right? See, I barely ever believe anything KC says anymore because so much of it has proven to be a lie. Maybe the girl did speak the truth once in a while???

Maybe she was sick....and maybe she did give her cold to Caylee....and just maybe KC was given some meds for her cold that she later gave to Caylee.

I read this text exchange as KC avoiding meeting up with AH. The next day KC says they are better and that Caylee isn't even "sneezing" anymore.

I have two kids.....the cold isn't miraculously over when the sneezing stops. Usually it's when the runny nose and coughing are gone.

I also remember an interview (Lord, I have no idea where) where Cyndi says KC would call her and ask if she should take Caylee in to get her ears checked whenever she was sick, stuff like that so I don't believe this was Caylee's VERY FIRST COLD and was virus free for her almost 3 years of life.

Agreed 100%. That text reads as plain ol' BS, just like her texts about her dad having a stroke and going to the ER (etc.)... I mean really, the 1st time her kid got sick in 3 years??? Please... She just wanted to avoid doing something or admitting something.

I'd like to hear more about Chloro and dryer sheets. The third google result leads to this thread! All the others were 'fringe' sites.

 

[Jersey*Girl]

Quick question. We know that Casey was seen by a psychiatrist to see if she was mentally competent but those results haven't been made public. Could Casey have Dissociative Identity Disorder (Multiple Personality Disorder)? I'm only asking this b/c it would add up if Casey was in fact Zenaida in another personality. While I don't believe this is the case, it still makes me wonder. http://www.medicinenet.com/script/main/art.asp?articlekey=38077

 

[suspicious1]

Agreed 100%. That text reads as plain ol' BS, just like her texts about her dad having a stroke and going to the ER (etc.)... I mean really, the 1st time her kid got sick in 3 years??? Please... She just wanted to avoid doing something or admitting something.

I'd like to hear more about Chloro and dryer sheets. The third google result leads to this thread! All the others were 'fringe' sites.

I read somewhere that dryer sheets are nothing more than cloths soaked in fabric softner and that they contain chloroform. The HEAT from the dryer is what is used to disperse the chemicals onto clothing. That's where I think the chloroform came from. Isn't chloroform also found in human decomp? I would say that the two mixed together would probably produce high levels of chloroform.

 

[debs]

Quick question. We know that Casey was seen by a psychiatrist to see if she was mentally competent but those results haven't been made public. Could Casey have Dissociative Identity Disorder (Multiple Personality Disorder)? I'm only asking this b/c it would add up if Casey was in fact Zenaida in another personality. While I don't believe this is the case, it still makes me wonder. http://www.medicinenet.com/script/main/art.asp?articlekey=38077

Short answer is no. Someone with DID (MPD) would affect the personality of the person Zenaida. She would act as Zenaida, talk as Zenaida, be called by and introduce herself as Zenaida, and would not KNOW of Zenaida unless she was told she said she was Zenaida at times when she is the Casey personality. A person with DID (MPD) does not control when an "other" takes over, which would be the case in this instance, since Cindy and George and all her friends have never EVER met this Zenaida. Since Casey uses Zenaida as a cover with her friends and family, it is more likely that Zenaida is just your garden variety alias for a liarpants clepto.

 

[BondJamesBond]

... it is more likely that Zenaida is just your garden variety alias for a liarpants clepto.

*snipped & bold by me*

ah...the ole' GVALC defense, eh?

Nice one.

 

[Jersey*Girl]

Short answer is no. Someone with DID (MPD) would affect the personality of the person Zenaida. She would act as Zenaida, talk as Zenaida, be called by and introduce herself as Zenaida, and would not KNOW of Zenaida unless she was told she said she was Zenaida at times when she is the Casey personality. A person with DID (MPD) does not control when an "other" takes over, which would be the case in this instance, since Cindy and George and all her friends have never EVER met this Zenaida. Since Casey uses Zenaida as a cover with her friends and family, it is more likely that Zenaida is just your garden variety alias for a liarpants clepto.

Yeah, you're right, but I still had to ask as I'm wondering why the results of her competency evaluation weren't made public yet. Could that be b/c of HIPAA rules? If that's the case, I thought that once a person is incarcerated, civilian rules no longer apply and they have different rules to abide by. In which case, we should have seen the results by now. On the other hand, maybe they're waiting for guilt to be proven?