Theory #2: Family Abduction by George Waters with George Brody, Part 2

[Skully]

I am going to look into the Italian Consulate to see if I can get any information that would help us. I did google it and there is one for San Fransisco and it is just off Pacific Ave. Isn't that where Margaret worked? Or was it Evelyn? Anyway I am going to start there and work my way out.

 

[Skully]

Does anyone have a date of the note GW wrote about the I.C. (Italian Consulate)? I have the note pages saved in my pictures, but some won't expand so I can read the text. I am going to email first to see what department I contact before I call. It is long distance and i don't see an 800 #. I want to email and then I can call and write. Thanks guys.

 

[SideKick]

Does anyone have a date of the note GW wrote about the I.C. (Italian Consulate)? I have the note pages saved in my pictures, but some won't expand so I can read the text. I am going to email first to see what department I contact before I call. It is long distance and i don't see an 800 #. I want to email and then I can call and write. Thanks guys.

~ Hi Bern.. I am attaching the Squibb for the mention of the Italian Cons. It appears as you will notice that this was written in list form with a date above of June 18/70 and on opposite page a date 9/15/70 Sept, 15/70 so I assume this was written at some point inbetween.

 

[Skully]

I am putting together a draft of what I want to email to the Italian Consulate (IC) and want to include names that GW may have traveled under. I remember Jack Wolf or Wolfe may be a name he used. I will also include Anna Eifee, Jack Eifee, George Eifee as possible names used for a passport. Any other names come to mind before I email? I will ask for a search between 1970 up to 1973. I don't know if I will get them to do this, but I will try. Any thoughts on this? Any other things to add?

TIA

 

[Cubby]

IIRC, GW also used the last name Walters when he was a resident of the hotel. Joe Ford would remember, since he did talked to the hotel manager after GW's passing.

George Bee was another name GB used.

Possibly Kukoda or Kay as those were the names Margaret used. I'm not sure if MK used both Mary Kay and Margaret Kay, or just Mary Kay.

 

[Cubby]

Christiana or Christianna Benedo was one of the names GB suggested before GW went and added Eifee to Annas birth certificate.

 

[Skully]

I know I read that the FBI did check to see if there were any passports for Anna but I don't know if they checked these other aliases. They could have traveled under any of these names. Anna most likely would have traveled under his name but we don't know if he used his real name or not. If we can find anything even close, with a child on the passport, maybe we can narrow down a region. Just thinking out loud here. Ya know, we may even get some interest from the IC to circulate her picture, who knows??

 

[Cubby]

Great idea Bern, but I wouldn't know how to check for a passport GW might have traveled under an alias. IIRC Annasmom needed to send a copy of GW's death certificate to obtain his passport records.

 

[Skully]

I have a copy of GW death certificate, I needed it for the FBI. So if they ask, I have it. I just need to hook up with someone who will go a few extra miles to help us in our search.

 

[Cubby]

But GW's death certificate is for his real name, not an alias.... I don't know how we would provide proof of alias kind of thing. they were never known alias's listed with police records of any kind that we have uncovered, or any documented proof outside of verbal info.....
Does that make sense?

In other words, we could be claiming an alias name was GW and unless we have some kind of proof.... what if GW used not only an alias but a false DOB... and those records then are in violation of someone else with that name and DOB's private records. Who's eto say we couldn't be using an alias story to try and find out information we should not have access to on someone else? I think that is why the security measures are in place when requesting some of these records...

For example, I don't know that they would accept searching records for a Jack Wolfe, when the only record we have of GW using that alias is based on a telephone call...

I don't mean to be a downer, but that is what comes to mind.

 

[Skully]

Okay, I emailed the IC and ask if there was a particular department or person who could research any inquiries or passports from 1970 to 1973. I gave a brief explanation of why we are asking. I am posting so we can have a record of when we contacted someone and who. This way we have a date/record and what needs followed up on.

 

[Pink Panther]

I know I read that the FBI did check to see if there were any passports for Anna but I don't know if they checked these other aliases. They could have traveled under any of these names. Anna most likely would have traveled under his name but we don't know if he used his real name or not. If we can find anything even close, with a child on the passport, maybe we can narrow down a region. Just thinking out loud here. Ya know, we may even get some interest from the IC to circulate her picture, who knows??

Bern,

I don't know if it's possible but if it is - I think you will have better luck checking US passports listed with some of these names than you will through the Italian Consulate. Never-say-never but Italy has outlandish "privacy" laws that are very difficult to plow through...Also, they maintain little or no records of border crossings into the country. I have been travelling there for many years and have rarely been stamped either upon entry or exit. Only recently, since they joined the EU and since 911, have they begun to implement more stringent controls. I would say that this is the case with many European countries including Greece.

JMO

 

[OzzieMum]

Bern,

I don't know if it's possible but if it is - I think you will have better luck checking US passports listed with some of these names than you will through the Italian Consulate. Never-say-never but Italy has outlandish "privacy" laws that are very difficult to plow through...Also, they maintain little or no records of border crossings into the country. I have been travelling there for many years and have rarely been stamped either upon entry or exit. Only recently, since they joined the EU and since 911, have they begun to implement more stringent controls. I would say that this is the case with many European countries including Greece.

JMO

Hi Pink,

So, what you are saying is, if GW took Anna to Italy on either a joint or separate passports, there would be no record of either of them entering or exiting Italy? And if GW and Anna entered Italy on a joint passport, there would be no record of GW exiting alone?

I travelled from Switzerland to Italy by train in 2000 and we were woken up in the middle of the night (when we crossed the Italian boarder) by 2 big burley blokes with machine guns (ozzie slang for 2 REALLY large men with REALLY large guns) that wanted to check our passports/papers. Scary stuff.

 

[Skully]

Bern,

I don't know if it's possible but if it is - I think you will have better luck checking US passports listed with some of these names than you will through the Italian Consulate. Never-say-never but Italy has outlandish "privacy" laws that are very difficult to plow through...Also, they maintain little or no records of border crossings into the country. I have been travelling there for many years and have rarely been stamped either upon entry or exit. Only recently, since they joined the EU and since 911, have they begun to implement more stringent controls. I would say that this is the case with many European countries including Greece.

JMO

Pink,

I know Annasmom stated somewhere on the forum that passports were checked out by the FBI, not sure when. They didn't find one for Anna. I will have to find the post.

I am sort of a digger, ya know? Sometimes I know the odds of something panning out are slim but it leads me to something else I wouldn't have look at unless I looked at the long shot. KWIM? If we don't ask, we will over look something. I have never contacted a foreign Consulate let alone the FBI in my life, but people are people, if you ask most of them are willing to help or at least get you in the right direction.

My DH hates doing jigsaw puzzles with me, I try every piece even when it is obvious that it won't fit. LOL

Last night he came home from work and saw me mailing a letter. He looked at me and asked "Who are we bothering now? The CIA? I said "No, still the FBI, but there records department and I emailed the Italian Consulate today too!"

"Great" he said, "it's not enough we are bothering the FBI and Dr.Phil, 48 Hours, now we are pestering a foreign county, Oh Boy!" LOL

 

[Pink Panther]

Pink,

I know Annasmom stated somewhere on the forum that passports were checked out by the FBI, not sure when. They didn't find one for Anna. I will have to find the post.

I am sort of a digger, ya know? Sometimes I know the odds of something panning out are slim but it leads me to something else I wouldn't have look at unless I looked at the long shot. KWIM? If we don't ask, we will over look something. I have never contacted a foreign Consulate let alone the FBI in my life, but people are people, if you ask most of them are willing to help or at least get you in the right direction.

My DH hates doing jigsaw puzzles with me, I try every piece even when it is obvious that it won't fit. LOL

Last night he came home from work and saw me mailing a letter. He looked at me and asked "Who are we bothering now? The CIA? I said "No, still the FBI, but there records department and I emailed the Italian Consulate today too!"

"Great" he said, "it's not enough we are bothering the FBI and Dr.Phil, 48 Hours, now we are pestering a foreign county, Oh Boy!" LOL

Bern,

I have tremendous respect for the work that you and everyone else here does and didn't mean to discourage you! Here's hoping!

: )

 

[Skully]

Bern,

I have tremendous respect for the work that you and everyone else here does and didn't mean to discourage you! Here's hoping!

: )

Not discouraged at all Pink, I have never been out of the US so I appreciate your help and direction. Keep suggestion coming, as I am so new to this. I just sometimes "fall into stuff". LOL

 

[Skully]

Here is the reply from the Italian Consulate in SF.
I think we move on to the American Embassy in Rome.

Dear Ms. xxxx,

Unfortunately we cannot help you locate an entry records in Italy (of an US citizen) that date over 30 years ago.
Italian privacy laws also might prevent us to disclose such records even if they were available to us.
Such records, if available, can be obtained by the police during a criminal investigation.
I suggest that you contact the American Embassy in Rome that might be able to assist you further with this matter.
Best Regards,
Axxx Mxxx
Italian Consulate San Francisco

 

[Skully]

I will put my letter together this weekend to the U.S. Embassy in Rome. I also did another followup letter to Robin McGraw at the Dr. Phil show. I sent reminder information. Record of correspondence again.

 

[Pink Panther]

Bern,

Until less than five years ago in Italy (and most countries) all children travelled attached to their parent's passports. Usually the mother's. If Anna travelled into Italy, she most probably did so, attached to a woman's passport. If they logged anything, it's most likely that they logged the woman, not the child.

Again, I don't want to discourage you in any way, I just want to inform you of what I know. I am an Italian Canadian and have travelled extensively between these two countries from when I was born.

Privacy laws in Italy will not allow you to access any data on this subject matter and even if you could have access - there would be nothing to access. I have travelled countless times into and out of Italy without a single stamp or control. Only since the EU began creating protocols has anyone even lifted up a head in my direction! We are talking about the /70's! Anna could have travelled in and out a hundred times without ever being recorded.

JMO

 

[Cubby]

Wouldn't it be likely if Anna was given to a couple for adoption who is in Italy there might be some kind of adoption forum where the adoptee would indicate the were adopted from the US? now living in Italy or something like that?

I wonder if there are any adoption sites in Italian that might be searched by our WS'rs who can read Italian?

just a thought.