Timeline of Events

[kyleb]

Yet in doing so, you're ignoring how the discussion has progressed since Reedus's post.

 

[Compassionate Reader]

For the record, when I wrote what I wrote, it was in response to someone (don't remember who at this point) asking me what I thought happened on May 5, 1993. That's what I wrote. Also, I wrote it off the top of my head. I am not a writer by trade or training, either. However, I am capable of expressing my thoughts, especially about this case which I have followed for over 16 years.

As to format, as I, also, have repeatedly asked for a non's timeline of events, I really don't care which format is used - narrative or list. I simply want to see how a non thinks things went down. What I don't want to see is constant referencing to another website. I want to know what a non thinks happened. I realize that much of it may be a rehash of the information the State used at trial. What I'm looking for is something that makes sense, given that the whole Satanic ritual killing has been discarded by the State at this point and replaced with the notion of a "thrill kill."

 

[missy_g]

If you would read my original post, I asked for a timeline, a summary of events or a theory of what happened. So really it doesn't matter. What I don't want is someone just spouting off closing arguments or callahans, but of course I'm sure that is going to happen.

And FWIW, I DO know what a timeline is. Just because I'm a "supporter/fence sitter" doesn't mean I'm an idiot.

 

[kyleb]

What I don't want is someone just spouting off closing arguments or callahans, but of course I'm sure that is going to happen.

I'm actually planning to cite witness testimony and statements from the documents on Callahan, organized in timeline format. Would that be acceptable for you?

 

[Cappuccino]

Yes, it would. But before you do all that, could you explain why you don't want this case re-opened?

 

[Compassionate Reader]

Just a gentle reminder that we're still waiting for the timeline (in whatever form you choose) - and an answer to Cappuccino's question.

 

[missy_g]

Don't see it happening.

 

[kyleb]

Do you believe people who deny all the documentation regarding such simple matters as the fact that Echols lived in West Memphis at the time of the murders would react to the witness testimony and statements organized in timeline format any differently? I don't, which is why I'm in no hurry to finish the project. That said, I have put a couple hours into it already, and I'll get around to finishing it up eventually.

 

[missy_g]

Why are you so obsessed with where Damien lived at the time of the murders?

 

[Compassionate Reader]

So, some people believe that if Damien was duplicitous about "where he lived" at the time of the murders that that means he's the murderer? Why else . . . oh, never mind!

 

[Mrs G Norris]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WFWsls-kVWc

Damien was duplicitous about even knowing the area .. as well as a lot of things.

 

[kyleb]

Why are you so obsessed with where Damien lived at the time of the murders?

The issue is that I don't have much interest in humoring people who are obsessed with denying even such simple and well documented facts.

 

[reedus23]

I will give my efforts at some sort of a timeline. Times are rough as many times ranges were given and I also understand someone can be off by a bit.

3:00 to 4:00 - TH comes home from work. Steve is out.
4:45 - TH, AH and PH go to the Moore's and talk to Dawn before taking PH to work.
Just after 5:00 - TH and AH stop by Moore's again, before going home.
5:30 - O'Tinger claims to have seen kids at 1309 Goodwin.
6:00 - Rico claims to have seen kids at drainage ditch.
Shortly before 6:00 - TH takes AH to Jacoby's, hangs out playing guitars before leaving.
6:30 - TH seen yelling at kids to get home while kids around Clark house at 1609 S. McAuley.

SOMETHING BAD HAPPENS HERE - According to Jamie Clark, Chris smarted back to her. Along the same train of thought as in the Chris Byers as primary target, could he have also mouthed off to TH as they approached the Hobbs' home, triggering a horrific chain of events?

7:00 or after - TH back to Jacoby's and they drive around for 10-15 minutes.
8:00 - Takes AH home.
9:00 - TH and AH pick up Pam (after getting to Catfish, TH finally calls LE).

This was all kind of off the top of my head so correct me where wrong, fill in where needed or just give thoughts.

 

[Mrs G Norris]

This is the thing, why on earth would he yell at them to get home, then drag / chase them into the woods and rape / murder them? The idea of TH doing this crime doesn't stand up to any logic at all. It's really just a red-herring.

 

[missy_g]

The issue is that I don't have much interest in humoring people who are obsessed with denying even such simple and well documented facts.

I'm not denying anything. I am not looking to be "humored". I just want to know WHEN and WHY and HOW the WM3 had an opportunity to kill these 3 boys.

I like to see the story from BOTH sides and not just be told "go look at Callahans" I HAVE looked at Callahans. I haven't read the entire transcripts (nor do I plan to because I simply don't have the time or energy at this point in my life) but I do have an idea. I might not be as versed in the case as CompassionateReader but do know a little bit.

I would just be nice to see everything from a different angle and hear (read) different views. That's why I find it odd that NO Non will even write a simple summary or theory as to what happened.

 

[Mrs G Norris]

I think that what happened is the three older boys were in the woods drinking, then the three younger boys went in there just to play as kids do, and the older ones jumped them, I don't tend to go along with the satanic stuff much - I think it was more an act of bullying that got out of hand with Damien, Jason and Jessie each outdoing the other until it ended up as a horrific murder of all three. I think Jessie was more involved than he's ever admitted and find his confessions paint him as the least involved which may or may not be true. More likely all three played an equal role.

 

[missy_g]

That does seem plausible but I can't see 3 drunk teens having enough wits about them to remove the clothes and tie up the boys (unless that was part of them trying to out do each other.) I guess if they drank a lot they could be drunk but somewhat coherent at the same time.

Also with whomever did this, I'm surprised no one saw them covered in blood (I know people said they saw them covered in dirt, but I never saw a mention of blood.) Also where are the bloody clothes? There were "witnesses" that said TH was doing laundry but just "doing laundry" probably wouldn't get the blood stains out of clothes.

I think if the murders were satanic as the prosecutors said, there would be symbols carved on the bodies etc. Plus I think the perps would have to have planned for the boys to be in the woods or for someone to be in the woods that day. It seems like a place that is normally avoided that time of the year because of the conditions of the area.

 

[Mrs G Norris]

Yes I tent to see the satanic stuff as an affectation for attention and to appear 'special' especially from Damien. There may have been 'overtones' based on scant knowledge or playing around with ideas or Satanism, but nothing really organised or in accordance with any formal ritual in particular.

I'm reading through evidence at the moment, I think a trench coat routinely worn by Damien was not around at time of arrest, I'm not sure about shoes, except for the ones Jessie gave away, any other clothes could have easily been tossed. There was nearly a month between crime and arrest, plenty of time to dispose of evidence.

 

[missy_g]

The trench coat information has bothered me before.

 

[kyleb]

I think that what happened is the three older boys were in the woods drinking, then the three younger boys went in there just to play as kids do, and the older ones jumped them, I don't tend to go along with the satanic stuff much - I think it was more an act of bullying that got out of hand with Damien, Jason and Jessie each outdoing the other until it ended up as a horrific murder of all three.

Yeah, that's what Misskelley described throughout his many confessions, and that is what is demonstrated by the evidence which corroborates those confessions.

I think if the murders were satanic as the prosecutors said

I don't believe there was any actual ritual as many have been mislead to believe the prosecutors alleged, but do agree with what the prosecutors actually said regarding satanism, as summed up in this portion of the closing arguments from the Baldwin/Echols trial:

Well, if you go back to the, this--the motive issue, and you look at these defendants, it makes perfect sense. Somebody that would take the beliefs, that--the satanic beliefs, even if he does it just part time, is a perfect motivation. Not that it was some kind of a ritual and you have an alter and all that, although, remember them asking about the candles? And lo and behold there was candle wax on the black and white dotted shirt. Remember Lisa Sakevicius testifying about the candle wax? But it doesn't matter whether it was a ritual or simply those beliefs motivated these defendants to commit this crime.

And if you'll think--think back, remember when Mr. Davis was cross examining Damien Echols? And he said, on the sheet of paper that you wrote in jail whose names are on there? Damien Echols, obviously somebody close to him. Jason Baldwin, his best friend. Damian Seth Azariah Echols, this defendant's son. And who was the last one? On this sheet of paper that only contained these names of people close to him, Aleister Crowley. And who was Aleister Crowley? He was the guy, if you'll remember when Damien told the police--they asked him was there any significance to the fact that they were young, an Damien said, "the younger the victim, the more innocent--the more innocent the victim, the more power the killer gets from the killing". And when I asked Dale Griffis had he heard a statement like that, what did he say? He said, that's Aleister Crowley. Aleister Crowley, the proponent of human sacrifice who says that the younger the victim, the better. Now whether it was a sacrifice or ritualistic sacrifice or simply those beliefs motivating this defendant, don't matter. He's the one with the beliefs and if you think about that piece of paper with only names of people close to him on there. And then the name Aleister Crowley.

Granted, the prospectors were just working with scraps of evidence to piece together the motive, literally in the case of the paper with Crowley's name on it. But Echols medical records which came out in the sentencing hearing corroborates the prosecutors conclusions regarding motive, as do his letters to Glori Shettles, all discussed in detail throughout [ame="http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=212300"]this thread.[/ame]