Titanic tourist sub goes missing in Atlantic Ocean, June 2023 #4

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somequestions said:
I would not have gone even once if the carbon fiber hull was brand new. If I knew about the many emails, phone calls, the firing of the test engineer pilot Lockridge, and the numerous warnings Rush had received, I would have passed. If I somehow knew about submersible engineering design as knowledge or as my profession, I would also have passed. Many of the dates on this safety communication to Stockton Rush was 4 or 5 years before the accident.

I understand someone needs to be inside the sub to pilot and test it, but as Rob McCallum said, the game changes when you take passengers because you cannot really consent to something you know very little or nothing about.

Maybe though, after 4 or 5 years, when nothing bad happened, even the people that warned him might even have thought they were overreacting to the safety warnings? I do not know what those people were thinking though.

When the investigation team is finished, it will be interesting to find out if they figured out what caused the implosion. Hopefully 60 Minutes or another news program does a follow up report when the investigation is complete.
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Very insightful post! I like when you said this " you cannot really consent to something you know very little or nothing about"-- oh so true!
 
ilovewings said:
Very insightful post! I like when you said this " you cannot really consent to something you know very little or nothing about"-- oh so true!
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Just to clarify, I did not say that quote. Rob McCallum, in the 60 Minutes Australia episode about the Titan submersible implosion said it. I was agreeing with what he said in the episode.

I think it is a very true statement though. Many times when we do not understand things we rely on the person in charge to have the experience and intelligence to follow. All of us can say we would never have gotten on the Titan submersible knowing what we know now, but at the time there was very little out there publicly to warn against it. It would have taken some good research to find about about Lockridge being fired, the acrylic port hole window rating, and the letters, emails, and phone calls to Stockton Rush warning him about Titan's flawed design.

And we also have to remember the Titan submersible did successfully dive to explore the Titanic twice before. I hope some news program does a news report when the final investigation report is completed.
 
Did anybody watch Sunday Morning, this morning? The implosion of the Titan was shown as an event which occurred this past year with a certain reverence for those who perished. I came in half way thru the discussion. The person discussed the people who died on the Titan Subermersible-- an old interview with Stockton Rush was shown as well as an old interview with Paul-Henri Nargeolet. What really got me very angry was that the person ( I can't recall his name- could be Mo Rocca)--discussed how this event could be seen as risk taking- or pursuing scientific progress, but that what was important was the grieving friends and family left behind.

What was not said was how negligent Stockton Rush was and how he ignored all safety warnings. I love Sunday Morning- I believe it is the best program on TV- been watching it for years, but I am so disappointed that this person did not come out and point out the truth about what happened and why it happened.

I understand that this event was discussed with a certain reverence because the people on this submersible died and how sad that is. But if they decided not to discuss the reality of why this occurred they should not have shown this segment at all. I am considering sending an email to Sunday Morning regarding my thoughts.

I don't know how anyone can discuss this terrible deadly event without discussing the negligence that caused it.
 
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ilovewings said:
Did anybody watch Sunday Morning, this morning? The implosion of the Titan was shown as an event which occurred this past year with a certain reverence for those who perished. I came in half way thru the discussion. The person discussed the people who died on the Titan Subermersible-- an old interview with Stockton Rush was shown as well as an old interview with Paul-Henri Nargeolet. What really got me very angry was that the person ( I can't recall his name- could be Mo Rocca)--discussed how this event could be seen as risk taking- or pursuing scientific progress, but that what was important was the grieving friends and family left behind.

What was not said was how negligent Stockton Rush was and how he ignored all safety warnings. I love Sunday Morning- I believe it is the best program on TV- been watching it for years, but I am so disappointed that this person did not come out and point out the truth about what happened and why it happened.

I understand that this event was discussed with a certain reverence because the people on this submersible died and how sad that is. But if they decided not to discuss the reality of why this occurred they should not have shown this segment at all. I am considering sending an email to Sunday Morning regarding my thoughts.

I don't know how anyone can discuss this terrible deadly event without discussing the negligence that caused it.
Click to expand...
Sunday Morning ran a puff piece on the Titan a couple of years ago, with David Pogue as a passenger on the sub. He's probably the person who conducted the interview you saw. In retrospect, it seems like maybe they should have done a little more digging back then and publicized some of the safety concerns that others in the industry had about OceanGate.
 
somequestions said:
I would not have gone even once if the carbon fiber hull was brand new. If I knew about the many emails, phone calls, the firing of the test engineer pilot Lockridge, and the numerous warnings Rush had received, I would have passed. If I somehow knew about submersible engineering design as knowledge or as my profession, I would also have passed. Many of the dates on this safety communication to Stockton Rush was 4 or 5 years before the accident.

I understand someone needs to be inside the sub to pilot and test it, but as Rob McCallum said, the game changes when you take passengers because you cannot really consent to something you know very little or nothing about.

Maybe though, after 4 or 5 years, when nothing bad happened, even the people that warned him might even have thought they were overreacting to the safety warnings? I do not know what those people were thinking though.

When the investigation team is finished, it will be interesting to find out if they figured out what caused the implosion. Hopefully 60 Minutes or another news program does a follow up report when the investigation is complete.
Click to expand...
That's why Josh Gates of Expedition Unknown made one trip, but decided against a second one in the Titan. He realized how dangerous it was, and he does dangerous stuff for a living.
 
LinasK said:
That's why Josh Gates of Expedition Unknown made one trip, but decided against a second one in the Titan. He realized how dangerous it was, and he does dangerous stuff for a living.
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Has Josh Gates commented on this? I heard he had passed on any further use of Titan due to concerns but didn't hear if he said more. I love him and Expedition Unknown. Sure he does dangerous stuff, but most of the stuff he does not for his shows is probably well managed. Titan was something where the safety level was out of his and his company's control however. And that would be a no-go.
 
PrairieWind said:
Has Josh Gates commented on this? I heard he had passed on any further use of Titan due to concerns but didn't hear if he said more. I love him and Expedition Unknown. Sure he does dangerous stuff, but most of the stuff he does not for his shows is probably well managed. Titan was something where the safety level was out of his and his company's control however. And that would be a no-go.
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Yes he has and on camera. I heard him interviewed after the Titan implosion.
 
'My husband and son died on the Titanic submarine. When I think of them now, they're asleep in the ocean': Christine Dawood relives the agony of losing half her family as world held its breath - and her despair over tragedy that should NEVER have happened


www.dailymail.co.uk

'My husband and son died on the Titanic submarine'

EXCLUSIVE: Last June, one hour and 45 minutes into the dive in the North Atlantic to view the wreck of the Titanic, the Titan lost communication with its support ship, the Polar Prince.
www.dailymail.co.uk www.dailymail.co.uk
 
JennieM said:
'My husband and son died on the Titanic submarine. When I think of them now, they're asleep in the ocean': Christine Dawood relives the agony of losing half her family as world held its breath - and her despair over tragedy that should NEVER have happened


www.dailymail.co.uk

'My husband and son died on the Titanic submarine'

EXCLUSIVE: Last June, one hour and 45 minutes into the dive in the North Atlantic to view the wreck of the Titanic, the Titan lost communication with its support ship, the Polar Prince.
www.dailymail.co.uk www.dailymail.co.uk
Click to expand...
I wonder if she feels anger towards OceanGate. After all, experts have since claimed CEO Stockton Rush ignored warnings that his vessel was unsafe.

'That's what you'd call complicated,' she says. 'There were a lot of people who showed us support during that time. So, anger at OceanGate? I don't know. But Stockton is not my favourite person in this mess.'


Everyone on that sub was a victim. But the Dawood's are the ones I feel the most sorry for. Unlike the others, they weren't a part of this world and really had no idea what sort of risks they were undertaking.
 
ilovewings said:
Did anybody watch Sunday Morning, this morning? The implosion of the Titan was shown as an event which occurred this past year with a certain reverence for those who perished. I came in half way thru the discussion. The person discussed the people who died on the Titan Subermersible-- an old interview with Stockton Rush was shown as well as an old interview with Paul-Henri Nargeolet. What really got me very angry was that the person ( I can't recall his name- could be Mo Rocca)--discussed how this event could be seen as risk taking- or pursuing scientific progress, but that what was important was the grieving friends and family left behind.

What was not said was how negligent Stockton Rush was and how he ignored all safety warnings. I love Sunday Morning- I believe it is the best program on TV- been watching it for years, but I am so disappointed that this person did not come out and point out the truth about what happened and why it happened.

I understand that this event was discussed with a certain reverence because the people on this submersible died and how sad that is. But if they decided not to discuss the reality of why this occurred they should not have shown this segment at all. I am considering sending an email to Sunday Morning regarding my thoughts.

I don't know how anyone can discuss this terrible deadly event without discussing the negligence that caused it.
Click to expand...

One name: Sean Bloom. The 20-year-old who convinced his Las Vegas financier farther to refuse the trip and the discounted tickets.

people.com

'Titan' Family Tragedy Averted Due to Son’s Warnings About Safety of Sub

Jay Bloom and his 20-year-old son Sean Bloom backed out of their plans to board the 'Titan' submersible over safety concerns, a decision that saved their lives.
people.com people.com

I probably have already posted it - the whole story of Stockton Rush has uncanny resemblance to the tale by Hans-Christian Andersen “the Emperor’s New Clothes”.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Emperor's_New_Clothes

Here: “
Two con-men arrive at the capital city of an emperor who spends lavishly on clothing. Posing as weavers, they offer to supply him with magnificent clothes that are invisible to those who are stupid or incompetent. The emperor hires them, and they set up looms and go to work. A succession of officials, and then the emperor himself, visit them to check their progress. Each sees that the looms are empty but pretends otherwise to avoid being thought a fool.

Finally, the weavers report that the emperor's suit is finished. They mime dressing him and he sets off in a procession before the whole city. The townsfolk uncomfortably go along with the pretense, not wanting to appear inept or stupid, until a child blurts out that the emperor is wearing nothing at all. The people then realize that everyone has been fooled.”

So what we need in the case of a delusional man would be a child who can say that the emperor is wearing nothing at all.
 
Charlot123 said:
One name: Sean Bloom. The 20-year-old who convinced his Las Vegas financier farther to refuse the trip and the discounted tickets.

people.com

'Titan' Family Tragedy Averted Due to Son’s Warnings About Safety of Sub

Jay Bloom and his 20-year-old son Sean Bloom backed out of their plans to board the 'Titan' submersible over safety concerns, a decision that saved their lives.
people.com people.com

I probably have already posted it - the whole story of Stockton Rush has uncanny resemblance to the tale by Hans-Christian Andersen “the Emperor’s New Clothes”.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Emperor's_New_Clothes

Here: “
Two con-men arrive at the capital city of an emperor who spends lavishly on clothing. Posing as weavers, they offer to supply him with magnificent clothes that are invisible to those who are stupid or incompetent. The emperor hires them, and they set up looms and go to work. A succession of officials, and then the emperor himself, visit them to check their progress. Each sees that the looms are empty but pretends otherwise to avoid being thought a fool.

Finally, the weavers report that the emperor's suit is finished. They mime dressing him and he sets off in a procession before the whole city. The townsfolk uncomfortably go along with the pretense, not wanting to appear inept or stupid, until a child blurts out that the emperor is wearing nothing at all. The people then realize that everyone has been fooled.”

So what we need in the case of a delusional man would be a child who can say that the emperor is wearing nothing at all.
Click to expand...
That young man saved his father's life-- very smart young man-- he points out the pressure Stockton Rush put on his dad-----gives me chills to think how close this man came to losing his life
 
When someone is considering doing something risky for emotional reasons like “bucket list” or “to make Dad happy,” it’s wise to do research and know what they are consenting to, as Rob McCallum on 60 Minutes Australia pointed out.

Someone wise pointed this out to me last year when I said I was so sick of being in pain that I was planning to undergo a medical procedure even though I had reservations about it. She said “When emotions go up, thinking goes down.” Or as my bachelor bil says “When the heart fills, the head empties.” :)

Being sick of pain is an emotion. So she encouraged me to do a deep dive into studies about the procedure. I did, and decided that there were too many risks and not enough benefits to make it worth the possible reduction in pain. Since then, two doctors in different fields have told me I made the right decision. Unfortunately, the paying passengers on the Titan didn’t do a deep dive into the information about this submersible before doing the real deep dive. A lesson for us all.

JMO
 
Another submersible has just gone missing off the coast of Antarctica, and while it wasn't carrying humans like the Titan submersible, it's an unfortunate loss for scientific research.

The University of Gothenburg in Sweden purchased the Ran submersible for approximately $3.6 million in 2015, according to a press release from the school. At 23 feet long, it was just one of three scientific submersibles of its kind in the world. It disappeared while researchers were using the machine remotely to study the melting of the Thwaites Glacier. The ice mass is also referred to as the "Doomsday Glacier" because it could potentially raise global sea levels by more than 10 feet if it were to melt completely. Naturally, it's an area of interest for scientists studying climate change and its effects on the area like the Ran research team.
www.yahoo.com

Another Submersible Has Gone Missing in the Ocean, This Time Near Antarctica

In June 2023, people around the world watched with bated breath as crews searched the North Atlantic waters near the wreckage of the Titanic for a submersible carrying five passengers that went missing. Another submersible has just gone missing off the coast of Antarctica, and while it wasn't ...
www.yahoo.com www.yahoo.com

doomsday glacier

Antarctica's "Doomsday Glacier"

Ran, owned by the University of Gothenburg in Sweden, was last heard from the weekend of January 27 while on an expedition under the Thwaites Glacier, also known as the "Doomsday Glacier," the university said in a press release.

“During January of this year, Ran completed several successful dives under Thwaites, but during the last planned dive of the expedition, something went wrong,” Professor Anna Wåhlin, the project’s leader, said in a statement. “After a long journey under the ice, the AUV [unmanned underwater vehicle] did not appear at the programmed rendezvous point.”

Wåhlin added that the support vessel RV/IB Araon then “aborted the homeward journey and searches were conducted with acoustic search equipment, helicopters and drones, without success.”
people.com

$3.6M Vessel Goes Missing Underneath Antarctica's 'Doomsday Glacier': 'Something Unexpected Happened'

An uncrewed research vehicle has gone missing under the “Doomsday Glacier” in Antarctica, according to its owner.
people.com people.com
 
At the very end of the documentary, they modeled the implosion, which was great for visualizing how it happened. They also interviewed both Victor Vescovo who has safely gone down to the bottom of the Marianas Trench (deeper than Titanic) and James Cameron, who made the Titanic movie. Both of them and others warned Rush several times of his safety risks. They also interviewed the father and son team who backed out of the dive, the wife and mother who lost her husband and son, the daughter of PH Nargolet, and a woman and a couple who previously went on Titan dives. Cameron said at the end what a "piss poor" idea it was to monitor for cracks in the hull by the sound of it cracking. They had seconds to respond. They needed to ascend to decrease the pressure and that's not something they could do rapidly. They had almost reached the depth of the Titanic.
 
LinasK said:
At the very end of the documentary, they modeled the implosion, which was great for visualizing how it happened. They also interviewed both Victor Vescovo who has safely gone down to the bottom of the Marianas Trench (deeper than Titanic) and James Cameron, who made the Titanic movie. Both of them and others warned Rush several times of his safety risks. They also interviewed the father and son team who backed out of the dive, the wife and mother who lost her husband and son, the daughter of PH Nargolet, and a woman and a couple who previously went on Titan dives. Cameron said at the end what a "piss poor" idea it was to monitor for cracks in the hull by the sound of it cracking. They had seconds to respond. They needed to ascend to decrease the pressure and that's not something they could do rapidly. They had almost reached the depth of the Titanic.
Click to expand...
I need to watch this.
Were there interviews with people that had been down in the Titan?
 
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