Tracey at it again in the UK?

[KBUK]

UKKB

I watched the program the following day and I can confirm she did look up.

Firstpage, thank you. It has infuriated me that I was unable to watch it again, I have respect for Jayelles opinions and information, gained from all the time lurking here, and everything is interpreted in the eye of the beholder, no? Thank you again.

Trica, thank you for your kind words

 

[Jayelles]

I would be happy to send you a copy of the programme if you no longer have it and then perhaps you can point out the bit of the programme which I seem to be missing - even in slow frame. It would indeed be interesting to see Patsy glaring at John!

I have it saved in a format which can be viewed on any pc.

 

[Firstpage]

KBUK

Firstpage, thank you. It has infuriated me that I was unable to watch it again, I have respect for Jayelles opinions and information, gained from all the time lurking here, and everything is interpreted in the eye of the beholder, no? Thank you again.

Sorry I got your name wrong in last post. Unfortunatly my other half deleted the programme from disc so I no longer have a copy, but I remember her looking up from her book toward John. I thought at the time it was a rather strange look, not sure how to describe it! However, as Jayelles actually has a copy of the docu., and cannot see that part, (and I am sure she has gone through it throughly) I am not sure quite how we seem to have seen two different versions?

 

[Jayelles]

KBUK

Firstpage, thank you. It has infuriated me that I was unable to watch it again, I have respect for Jayelles opinions and information, gained from all the time lurking here, and everything is interpreted in the eye of the beholder, no? Thank you again.

Sorry I got your name wrong in last post. Unfortunatly my other half deleted the programme from disc so I no longer have a copy, but I remember her looking up from her book toward John. I thought at the time it was a rather strange look, not sure how to describe it! However, as Jayelles actually has a copy of the docu., and cannot see that part, (and I am sure she has gone through it throughly) I am not sure quite how we seem to have seen two different versions?

There may be an explanation. I sent copies of the programme out to Why_Nut and ACR last week and I have asked them both to watch out for the said clip. Why_Nut said that he thinks this clip may have been recycled from a 48 hours documentary which was filmed in the Vinings house. Is it possible that you saw the 48 hours programme which might have been longer and included the glare? Why_Nut is going to search for it.

I have just gone through the documentary again and I literally pause framed through the clip where Patsy is reading the book and she definitely doesn't look up. However, there is another clip just after that where Patsy is sitting in a graden or a park and she is pensively staring into space. This clip blends to John being interviewed after her death and if the two clips were superimposed, Patsy would seem to be looking at John.

I'm beginning to think I'm going mad - but if, as Why_Nut says, the clip was used in an earlier documentary...???

Could you have seen a 48 Hours documentary which wasn't shown in the UK?

 

[Nuisanceposter]

Can anyone figure out what kind of book Patsy's reading there? Just curious...

 

[why_nutt]

I'm beginning to think I'm going mad - but if, as Why_Nut says, the clip was used in an earlier documentary...???

Could you have seen a 48 Hours documentary which wasn't shown in the UK?

In looking at the latest documentary, I can see that, if you have a good memory for environments and know what to look for, you can see quite a lot of recycled footage. Basically, it looks like Mills/Tracey take all the old material they shot, B-rolls and all, and no matter what year they are making a new program, they just put in what suits them at the moment with no regard for things like chronology. I can point to some specific moments in the latest doc, when they make it look like the Ramseys were still living in their 112 Belvedere house, the one on the hill overlooking the lake that the doc gets fascinated with showing, but in reality that would be old footage and the Ramseys, for over the past two years, have been living at 213 Elm in Charlevoix, a house that sits next to a golf course and no water at all.

In the case of the footage being sought, it might be in one of several programs made in the time frame when the Ramseys were living in the Paces Ferry house in Vinings, Georgia, but also probably before they moved out of that house and moved to the more modest Smyrna location. That seems to be where the bulk of the material came from that involves sitting in a house pretending to go about everyday life. I have ruled out most of the 48 Hours program from 2002 just now. It did have footage of the Ramseys in their Vinings house, but in the context of their moving. (Fun fact: in that 2002 48 Hours, Patsy is seen playing with a small daschund named Molly. She went on to paint a picture of it, but as far as I have been able to determine, Molly was just borrowed for the photoshoot, and did not belong to the Ramseys. They left it behind in Georgia when they moved to Michigan.)

 

[Jayelles]

In looking at the latest documentary, I can see that, if you have a good memory for environments and know what to look for, you can see quite a lot of recycled footage. Basically, it looks like Mills/Tracey take all the old material they shot, B-rolls and all, and no matter what year they are making a new program, they just put in what suits them at the moment with no regard for things like chronology. I can point to some specific moments in the latest doc, when they make it look like the Ramseys were still living in their 112 Belvedere house, the one on the hill overlooking the lake that the doc gets fascinated with showing, but in reality that would be old footage and the Ramseys, for over the past two years, have been living at 213 Elm in Charlevoix, a house that sits next to a golf course and no water at all.

In the case of the footage being sought, it might be in one of several programs made in the time frame when the Ramseys were living in the Paces Ferry house in Vinings, Georgia, but also probably before they moved out of that house and moved to the more modest Smyrna location. That seems to be where the bulk of the material came from that involves sitting in a house pretending to go about everyday life. I have ruled out most of the 48 Hours program from 2002 just now. It did have footage of the Ramseys in their Vinings house, but in the context of their moving. (Fun fact: in that 2002 48 Hours, Patsy is seen playing with a small daschund named Molly. She went on to paint a picture of it, but as far as I have been able to determine, Molly was just borrowed for the photoshoot, and did not belong to the Ramseys. They left it behind in Georgia when they moved to Michigan.)

Why_Nut, you have the recording. In the clip where Patsy is reading the book (approx 17 minutes from the start) does she look up from her book and glare at John?

 

[why_nutt]

Why_Nut, you have the recording. In the clip where Patsy is reading the book (approx 17 minutes from the start) does she look up from her book and glare at John?

Not in that clip from the recent doc, no. But I have found the visual that is being remembered. It is from the first doc, the 1998 one, footage of which was repeatedly used in subsequent programs. It is an alternate angle to the clip from the latest program. In the 1998 broadcast, you can see clearly all the same elements as the current clip; Patsy wearing black, in a chair and reading a book, John on the phone on the sofa, that spinning wheel present to John's right, and that odd chess board on the table between them.

The 2006 doc was quite misleading on that, by the way. The documentary says, at the time that footage is shown, that "By now in 2003, the Ramseys had moved to Charlevoix, in Michigan, near the Canadian border, and close to where John Ramsey had grown up. Nobody would employ him, and he began renovating their home here. Their position, though, was improving."

But the footage was from 1998, when the Ramseys were living in the Georgia home, Patsy's cancer had not come back in full force yet (in a way that anyone would admit to), and John was employed by Jaleo.

The first image is from 1998, and while Patsy's eyes are too small to detect any glaring in this capture, the angles do recreate what the original poster remembers, so at least we can establish that the scene recalled is not being made up entirely out of whole cloth. The second image is from 2006.

 

[Jayelles]

Not in that clip from the recent doc

Brilliant Why_Nut. Thank you so much. I don't even remember that clip from the 1998 documentary. Then again, that's the only one I didn't keep on tape. You sent me a copy of the US version, but it was a bit different.

 

[Jayelles]

For FirstPage and KBUK - here is the uploaded video with the clip we have been discussing.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=dnnNQZAWI3k

The clip starts at approximately 03.47 minutes.

Links to the rest of the clips are here:-

http://www.bestfreeforums.com/forums/the-killing-of-jonbenet-evil-twist-on-you-tube-vt219-sanctuary2.html

 

[Firstpage]

Jayelles,

Thanks for the links to the clips. Having watched them all again and in particular the clip of Patsy reading the book, I recall the clip of her reading being much longer and looking up at one point in the documentry I saw on Channel 4, tuesday 5th Dec. at 10pm.

I am begining to wonder if that section was included and shown in some areas of the country and not in others? As why_nutt says, the documentry was made up from old footage and peiced together with additional new footage to make the new documentry.

I think I will have to e-mail channel 4 this is driving me mad!!!

 

[Jayelles]

Jayelles,

Thanks for the links to the clips. Having watched them all again and in particular the clip of Patsy reading the book, I recall the clip of her reading being much longer and looking up at one point in the documentry I saw on Channel 4, tuesday 5th Dec. at 10pm.

I am begining to wonder if that section was included and shown in some areas of the country and not in others? As why_nutt says, the documentry was made up from old footage and peiced together with additional new footage to make the new documentry.

I think I will have to e-mail channel 4 this is driving me mad!!!

If it had shown on ITV then I couldn't dispute the possibility of what you are suggesting, but Channel 4 doesn't have regional variations.

Besides, what your suggesting is that they recorded two different versions of the documentary whereas you can see that the commentary flows right through the clip and into the next. My guess is that you've either seen the earlier US documentary and remembered the "look" - or KBUK has and his comments have influenced your recall.

 

[Jayelles]

On reflection, I think it might be a good idea to write to Channel 4 and ask them if for some reason they aired two different versions of the same documentary at the same time. It would be good to clear this up. Bear in mind that there was no pause in the commentary as the clip of Patsy blended into the clip of the news headlines so David Mills would have to have recorded two separate voice-overs too.

I cannot imagine why they would do that, but.... you never know.

 

[Firstpage]

Jayelles,

I did watch the previous documentry but as it was such a long time ago I could not have recalled the clip with such clarity! Belive me, I did see the section in question. What I saw definatly occured in the new documentry. As for KBUK influencing me, I hope I am not that easily influenced!

However, I do understand what you are saying about regional differences and Channel 4 so I am hoping to get in contact with them, at the moment I cannot get through to their contact site, but will keep trying.

 

[Jayelles]

There are three options here:-

1. For some reason, the programme makers made two versions of the same programme - version A "with glare" and version B "without glare" and broadcast the former to selected regions and the latter to the rest of the UK.
2. "Kirsty" and I both independently edited "the glare" out of the programme in identical ways.
3. You and KBUK are mistaken about seeing the glare in this particular programme.


Option 1
Not possible. Channel 4 does not have regional variations. The same programme is broadcast simultaneously to all regions. They also broadcast some programmes live on the Internet. This documentary WAS broadcast live on the Internet.

Channel 4 has, since its inception, broadcast identical programmes and continuity throughout the UK (excluding Wales where it does not operate on analogue transmitters). At launch this made it somewhat unique, as both the BBC and ITV had long established traditions of providing regional variations in their programming and announcements between transmitters in different areas of the country. In ITV's case, this was a consequence of its inherent federal structure (see ITV companies). Since the launch of subsequent British television channels, Channel 4 has become typical in its lack of variations of this nature.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Channel_4


Option 2
The recording which has been uploaded onto YouTube is not my mine. It was uploaded by someone called Kirsty whom I believe is located in England. I've never had any contact with Kirsty and to the best of my knowledge, she isn't a member here. However, I have viewed her version and it is identical to mine - which was aired in Scotland.

I can't speak for Kirsty, but I don't have video editing software and even if I did, I'd have to be pretty damn good to edit out the glare AND keep the audio in synch for the rest of the programme. When these programmes are made, they do the video first and the voiceover gets added last. The person doing the voiceover sits and watches the film footage whilst they read their cue. If you go to www.millsproductions.co.uk you'll see examples of the scripts they use in the Ramsey section. Not just ordinary transcripts, but with included descriptions of film footage. I recorded the programme and sent off two unadulterated copies within a day or so to the US. My recording includes the final few minutes of Gordon Ramsey's F word plus all commercials. The recipients of these recordings confirm that Patsy did not look up from the book.

Option 3
I'm sorry guys, but I think you are going to have to accept that you are mistaken about seeing "the glare" in this particular programme. The evidence doesn't support it and you've both unfortunately deleted your recordings which would prove your claims.

I want to make a complaint about this programme and I would appreciate support in doing so, however, I am only interested in truth and facts. The documentary contains false and misleading facts which can be disputed using excellent sources. However, no-one is going to take us seriously if we start claiming that the documentary contained footage which it didn't and especially not if we start to suggest that there has been some kind of conspiracy to air two versions of the same documentary - one with 2 seconds edited out. Let's face it, if you and KBUK had recorded the programme and uploaded it to YouTube showing "the glare", Channel 4 would have a lot of explaining to do!

The simplest explanation is that you saw the earlier US version of the programme and remember "the glare" on the extended version of the clip. I have a stirring memory that there was discussion about it at the time - which would help to consolidate the memory for you.

 

[Firstpage]

Ok, as it seems we cannot agree on this, it is best that we discontinue the discussion about the clip.

I am still going to contact channel 4 and see if they can clear this matter up, even if only for my own peace of mind.

 

[Jayelles]

Ok, as it seems we cannot agree on this, it is best that we discontinue the discussion about the clip.

I am still going to contact channel 4 and see if they can clear this matter up, even if only for my own peace of mind.

Please, please do. I hope you will share their response with us.

 

[Jayelles]

I have e-mailed Channel 4 and asked them to clear up the puzzle. Did they make and air two different versions of the documentary - Version 1 - with glare and Version 2 - without glare and then carefully select the regiosn they would show each version to. Who knows, maybe we've been the victims of some bizarre experiment?

I am sure they'll have a right good belly laugh at the enquiry, but hey, I reckon I lost my marbles 6 years ago when I found the forums, so I have nought else to lose!

 

[Jay78]

one thing i found interesting when i watched the clips from this program on Youtube is that John stated he had only ever seen Patsy cry twice. The two times indicated were when she found out she had cancer and when she knew she was going to die from her cancer. It floored me that he didn't mention the death of his daughter...:doh:

 

[JMO8778]

one thing i found interesting when i watched the clips from this program on Youtube is that John stated he had only ever seen Patsy cry twice. The two times indicated were when she found out she had cancer and when she knew she was going to die from her cancer. It floored me that he didn't mention the death of his daughter...:doh:

Considering she had on all of her makeup when LE arrived that morning,it sounds true.