Trial Thread - 9 May 2012 Judge to give Jury Instructions

[Wondergirl]

do you have that link

No, sorry, I don't have the link.

The clip of Rodney talking from yesterday, that I heard this morning, was on the CBC Radio. HTH

 

[OhSoCurious]

Also if Tori was on the floor and covered how would she even know she was at a Tim Hortons. Or any public place.

Because TLM supposedly asked her if she wants something or needs the washroom there. MOO

 

[puppyraiser]

As I wrote in an earlier post a couple days ago, I strongly believe that if MR didn't know Tori was a victim of a kidnapping when she first entered the car, he sure did by the time they hit the 401 and he had ample time and opportunity to turn the car around and drop her off. Tori, if able to see the highway, would have known she wasn't heading home or to a friends or to see TLM's dog (insert whatever excuse TLM gave) and would have started talking and questioning. If she couldn't 'see' the highway, that would mean she was hiding in the backseat-not something a babysitter would have their young charge doing.

After reading what little info we received during the trial through tweets, it is my opinion that MR talked about kidnapping a female child with TLM (with a hidden ulterior motive that SHE MAY have been unaware of) and she talked with him about a fantasy of wanting to kill someone. Once goaded into the action of actually taking a female child, he made the comment that sounded so out of place in her testimony "you know I'm going to **** her". His desire was fulfilled as was hers. "In it together" as the Crown stated. IMO, MOO, JMO

 

[brighidin]

Please keep in mind Blatchford is known for her biased writing. Please keep in mind this recap is solely through the eyes of the Crown and not necessarily how things unfolded that day. JMO IMO MOO

It isn't through the eyes of the Crown. It is CB's interpretation of what happened: an opinion piece, which is what she gets paid to write.

I can't believe I'm defending her; I don't read her columns or her paper anymore at all, but she's doing her job. Everyone has a point of view/bias/whatever you want to call it and no one is wholly objective. It is no less legitimate than any other article out there.

 

[Bravo]

Because TLM supposedly asked her if she wants something or needs the washroom there. MOO

I find that was one of the few things TLM testified to be a lie. Who would take a recently abducted child into a public place. MOO

 

[otto]

I guess I am just thinking that if TLM was sitting in the front seat and she was in the back by herself at the Tim Hortons she might have been able to make a run for it. I am assuming that there would have been traffic there since most Tims are fairly busy. The fact that she didn't makes me feel as though she did not feel threatened at that point. The only reason I can come up with for that is that she did know TLM somehow.

If she was shown the knife - and I suspect that she was (since the blade is missing), she would have been terrified to move. I think that it's easy for victims to become confused (blinded by stress, fear, anxiety) and not know who to turn to when they are in a dangerous situation. If she was in the back seat, covered with a coat and threatened with a knife, she was probably hoping that she would be okay ... that's most likely what they told her. I think she was too young to fully understand what MR and TLM had planned for her.

For example, Dru Sjodin was threatened with a knife in a parking lot in broad daylight. She was taken to a secluded area, raped and murdered. He blood was found in the murderer's vehicle. She was unable to save herself and she was a young adult.

 

[djmep]

Good point--locks, drugs, threats, yelling, and maybe physical restraints. And Tori is not the first child to have been abducted successfully! Unfortunately, success in keeping the child in their possession is not a problem for these people! MOO.

But to casually stop at a Tim Hortons while they have a kidnapped child in the backseat is just so unimaginable to me. Why would they take a chance?

 

[Alison]

Victoria Stafford discuss all aspects of this case!

... all aspects is a healthy thing for the mind

JMO

Great, however it is not an aspect of the case, unless you have a link stating that she was kidnapped for drug money? JMO
Otherwise we are further victimizing TM by insinuating she placed her child in this position JMO.

 

[otto]

In order to be convicted he has to have "willingly and knowingly participated", not just participated. If the jury believes he willingly participated in the kidnapping/abduction they should come back with a guilty verdict.

If he was threatened to participate, or did not know that Tori was being kidnapped, when she was in his car, then they should come back with a not guilty verdict.

He was driving the car and he had the knife. Clearly, he wasn't threatened. If he was duped, then certainly by the time he was waiting for his accomplice to purchase the murder tools (with money that he had just withdrawn from the bank machine), he had every opportunity to come to his sense and call police. Instead, he turned off his phone and drove to a secluded area that he was very familiar with and raped a little girl.

He was involved in the kidnapping of a young girl and she was murdered. I'm confident that he will be convicted of first degree murder.

 

[flipflop]

But to casually stop at a Tim Hortons while they have a kidnapped child in the backseat is just so unimaginable to me. Why would they take a chance?

they took the chance to kidnapp VS in broad daylight from a public school at dismissal time

 

[Alison]

I think it is easy for others to assume how one would act in a certain situation but we will never know unless we are there. She was probably rationalizing with herself that these people would take her home to her mom, as TM's role was obviously the one who befriended the child and earned her trust JMO.

 

[otto]

Wasn't there another interview where TM said she felt it was a mildly vindictive motive gone wrong.

The victim's parents were clearly distraught and willing to consider anything that might explain their missing child ... they obviously hoped that she would be found alive.

 

[otto]

Because TLM supposedly asked her if she wants something or needs the washroom there. MOO

TLM said that MR raped Victoria. Should we believe everything that TLM said?

 

[lightlady]

In order to be convicted he has to have "willingly and knowingly participated", not just participated. If the jury believes he willingly participated in the kidnapping/abduction they should come back with a guilty verdict.

If he was threatened to participate, or did not know that Tori was being kidnapped, when she was in his car, then they should come back with a not guilty verdict.

To me MR passed this "willingly and knowingly" threshold the minute he drove past the school and to a more secluded area to wait for TLM to come from the school. In that action he demonstrated that he was aware what he was doing was not right.

 

[otto]

But to casually stop at a Tim Hortons while they have a kidnapped child in the backseat is just so unimaginable to me. Why would they take a chance?

They had their victim under their control, they were high, they thought they were Bonnie and Clyde.

 

[Wondergirl]

I see Rafferty spent another day shaking his head, rolling his eyes, and nodding his head in agreement with some things in court.

Can anyone refer me to an accused kidnapper, rapist and/or murderer, who was acquitted of the charges, after they had acted in this manner during court?

It comes across in the media and reports as deranged, IMO.

Who in their right mind would act this way, at the tale end of a heinous murder trial?

I am serious, if you were innocent, and you knew the Jury and thousands of people were watching every single day, would you weep at the sight of your ex-girlfriend, stare at the ceiling and close your eyes during testimony by distraught witnesses, roll your eyes, mutter and curse at the evidence of the death of a child?

Who in their right mind would act that way? Even if you wanted to act that way, you wouldn't, right?

I am sick of the antics and disrespect. Ultimately, again, I will suggest, that Rafferty is putting the final nail in his own coffin, by his actions, as much as his lack of words.

And, I might add, very ill advised for this to be happening 2 days in a row.

JMO

 

[djmep]

<modsnip>

I apologize for writing "only". I should have said "one" of the reasons. I do not post very often but have followed this since the beginning since I live close to Woodstock and have a child the same age. I am only going on what my children have been taught to do. I realize that other children might react differently.

 

[OhSoCurious]

Great, however it is not an aspect of the case, unless you have a link stating that she was kidnapped for drug money? JMO
Otherwise we are further victimizing TM by insinuating she placed her child in this position JMO.

here is your requested link, there are dozens more but I am tired:

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news...murderous-plan-defence-lawyer/article2424833/

Convicted killer Terri-Lynne McClintic kidnapped eight-year-old Victoria (Tori) Stafford to resolve a “drug debt” and beat the child to death with a hammer she’d bought that day, while Michael Rafferty was just a reluctant dupe who got sucked into the murderous scheme, Mr. Rafferty’s murder trial was told Monday.

 

[OhSoCurious]

I apologize for writing "only". I should have said "one" of the reasons. I do not post very often but have followed this since the beginning since I live close to Woodstock and have a child the same age. I am only going on what my children have been taught to do. I realize that other children might react differently.

Yes ... Welcome! I understood how you intended it to be taken. JMO

 

[flipflop]

here is your requested link, there are dozens more but I am tired:

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news...murderous-plan-defence-lawyer/article2424833/

Convicted killer Terri-Lynne McClintic kidnapped eight-year-old Victoria (Tori) Stafford to resolve a “drug debt” and beat the child to death with a hammer she’d bought that day, while Michael Rafferty was just a reluctant dupe who got sucked into the murderous scheme, Mr. Rafferty’s murder trial was told Monday.

not really proof IMO. The defence couldn't even expand on that theory, they had no one testify to this theory, MR made this theory up when he tried to mislead LE during his interview.....MR lies just as TLM does.....

But at no point in his closing argument did defence lawyer Dirk Derstine explain what the drug debt involved.