GUILTY Turkey - Sarai Sierra, 33, NY woman murdered, Istanbul, 21 Jan 2013 - #5

[alpmighty]

His family barely saw him. How do they know what he was like?
Family is often not a very accurate view of their own family members....they have to many biases.

How did his family barely see him? Did they state so in their interviews? Have I missed that? My apologies if it is so.

 

[ThinkHard]

Did I misunderstand? I did not say "people are claiming". Why are people mentioning the involvement of CIA? Does undercover agent means something else? CIA's jurisdiction is totally different than FBI. Why would CIA be involved in this case?

I would think if CIA was involved, just hypothetically, and did have secret opps in turkey, it wouldn't be about drugs, but more about terrorists enclaves hiding out or working out of turkey. I'm not saying this is what's going on....I'm just saying something along those lines would seem more related to CIA involvement then drugs or internal mafia etc.

 

[alpmighty]

I would think if CIA was involved, just hypothetically, and did have secret opps in turkey, it wouldn't be about drugs, but more about terrorists enclaves hiding out or working out of turkey. I'm not saying this is what's going on....I'm just saying something along those lines would seem more related to CIA involvement then drugs or internal mafia etc.

Turkish National Police Counter-Terrorism branch and MIT are extremely receptive to any US requests for terrorism investigations. Cooperation between MIT, CIA, FBI and TNP on anything related to terrorism is unprecedented. There is no incentive for FBI or CIA to run a covert terrorism related operation in Turkey.

Did you know that several of CIA black sites for 'enhanced interrogation' and Bush Jr. era 'extraordinary rendition' were located in Turkey and Turkish air bases were used as transfer hubs for CIA black flights with tacit high level approval?

We are very much in the same game with the United States when it comes to terrorism.

 

[ThinkHard]

How did his family barely see him? Did they state so in their interviews? Have I missed that? My apologies if it is so.

Yes they said he only came home for a few days every 2-3 years. He had lived on the streets since he was 11, been in jail from 15-22.

 

[Chewy]

How did his family barely see him? Did they state so in their interviews? Have I missed that? My apologies if it is so.

From what I've seen there is nothing to back up this assertion.

 

[Chewy]

I can understand you here. I couldn't get it before from your rather hostile tone.

I suppose in a forum like this there are various levels of reality going on in our perception, even inside individuals. In part we all know this death really happened (I feel pretty close to the events around it) and I for one do want to honor Sarai's memory and help other travellers in real life by clarifying it.
But a forum like this is also a social game and an intellectual training center (which can be good for finding the solution to the real case, too), and the hilarious state of available evidence here can put that experience in the foreground sometimes.

People in the digital-social age learn to live with this kind of thing. Come to think of it, Sarai, turning Instagram life into a real trip, was working on it, too, bless her soul.

It's cool, I just don't understand the boundaries that are allowed.

It's one thing to look at actual FACTS in the case and examine them, but I don't think it is an exercise in intellectual training to just pull theories out of thin air and ignore evidence to the contrary.

I don't know what happened to her, but I do know that there have been many cases in the past that were mysteries or caused innocent people to be convicted, because "it just didn't make sense." At the end of the day it was revealed some completely unrelated bizarre freak accident caused the crime.

Or maybe I watch too much Quincy, who knows.


Here's an example that will maybe make sense.

A woman is having a terrible day. She gets in a fight with her boyfriend and threatens to kill herself. Later that day it seems she drove her car off the road and everyone thinks it was a suicide. They examine the car and find nothing wrong with it.

Turns out that what actually happened is that a wasp got inside her car and she freaked out and lost control of the vehicle. Once the car crashed the wasp flew away.

So to me, it doesn't always add up the way we think it does.

 

[ThinkHard]

I'm inclined to dismiss any espionage related angle, even by sheer coincidence. That's why I provided a lot of information regarding intelligence operations, terrorism, agency relations and jurisdiction and political climate in Syria. It doesn't make any sense at all.

I admit its a stretch and a said that even proposing it.

But I'm still not convinced its completely an impossible angle either.

 

[Blackydress]

This is the latest article. (My translation) Opposition groups fighting in Syria are also searching for Ziya too. It was learnt that he had no soldier friend. No trail of him or evidence was found in Hatay region after the search. It is guessed that Ziya T. walked through the border and went into Syrian soil. It was stated that the situation in the area is very complicated and Ziya T. could have passed the border with an aid convoy. Opposition groups were also warned about him. LE is also evaluating the possibility that Ziya T. could be killed in Syria where he passed without receiving any help.
http://dha.com.tr/haberdetay.asp?tarih=26.02.2013&Newsid=432903&Categoryid=2

 

[ThinkHard]

It's cool, I just don't understand the boundaries that are allowed.

It's one thing to look at actual FACTS in the case and examine them, but I don't think it is an exercise in intellectual training to just pull theories out of thin air and ignore evidence to the contrary.

I don't know what happened to her, but I do know that there have been many cases in the past that were mysteries or caused innocent people to be convicted, because "it just didn't make sense." At the end of the day it was revealed some completely unrelated bizarre freak accident caused the crime.

Or maybe I watch too much Quincy, who knows.


Here's an example that will maybe make sense.

A woman is having a terrible day. She gets in a fight with her boyfriend and threatens to kill herself. Later that day it seems she drove her car off the road and everyone thinks it was a suicide. They examine the car and find nothing wrong with it.

Turns out that what actually happened is that a wasp got inside her car and she freaked out and lost control of the vehicle. Once the car crashed the wasp flew away.

So to me, it doesn't always add up the way we think it does.

Exactly!

Which is why even though some people think it makes sense that it was a crazy homeless guy named z, who spotted SS in wrong place, wrong time. It might be something completely different. To your point Ziya T could very well be innocent, and not have mental issues, and perhaps continuing to assert he did could also be damaging to him or his family.

Also I did not propose anything in my theory that completely contradicted any known evidence about this case. And I think to explore all angles is not insulting to the case.

 

[Chewy]

Exactly!

Which is why even though some people think it makes sense that it was a crazy homeless guy named z, who spotted SS in wrong place, wrong time. It might be something completely different. To your point Ziya T could very well be innocent, and not have mental issues, and perhaps continuing to assert he did could also be damaging to him or his family.

Also I did not propose anything in my theory that completely contradicted any known evidence about this case. And I think to explore all angles is not insulting to the case.

You don't even know what the other woman looks like, yet you've asserted it's a case of mistaken identity because Sarai looks like her.

That's total speculation not exploring theories. Why not consider the idea that Z was hired by her husband to kill her on the trip.

 

[ThinkHard]

You don't even know what the other woman looks like, yet you've asserted it's a case of mistaken identity because Sarai looks like her.

That's total speculation not exploring theories. Why not consider the idea that Z was hired by her husband to kill her on the trip.

Yes I proposed the possibility that they may have looks alike based on the fact that when the body was recovered from the water, they were comparing images of sarai to the body they were retrieving, so I'm guessing they must have had some similarities.

And yes it's only a theory. We only have 5% of the info LE has, we are ALL speculating.

When you don't have all the peices you have to use the ones you have and try to guess what the missing peices would be. Even LE has to do this. That's part of trying to figure out how it all comes together.

Because we know so little, and we do not even know of what printed is actually true, their is a lot of guessing and speculating from every single poster on this board, yourself included.

 

[english]

Quite the opposite, will be most likely identified if not already have been identified. Have you checked Turkish National Police's unidentified bodies page? That body hasn't appeared there. And most of the other bodies shown in the page are in advanced stages of decomposition to establish any identity, or they belong to drifters and homeless which makes it hard to establish identity without a DNA match. That poor woman with the red shirt was fished out after approximately 48 hours. Not long enough for severe decomposition, considering the water temperature.

Herat would be able to tell more about that.

I was tired when I wrote that and didn't word it quite right. I didn't mean the body would never be identified, but that it probably wouldn't make the papers when she was.

 

[pbj]

That would be a tough guess to make. She had a smartphone and an iPad. If they did have network connections, she would just resort to checking Maps on the said devices to get accurate location information, providing that she would fail to ask passers by due to language barrier.

But there's also her strong motivation on photography, and her communication with Taylan, indicating she had an interest in photographing the walls.

Alpmighty or is it Almighty (just kidding), am enjoying the cultural education. Always helpful to get guidance from people that understand the culture.



Let me ask you,or anyone else, did you read that SS did communicate to T that she had an interest in seeing the walls?

I recall her texting to T something about leaving now and she could go by herself...was that specifically for the walls? At 12:30 or so some accounts say T texted her he'll join her and hopes she has her wireless (was that for gps location?)

I also read once that T was to meet her at the Galata Bridge Eminonu side . Isn't that right in the area of the caves?

The last still picture of her which some of said is her at a take-out place , is that Galata Bridge, Eminonu side?

Thanks, just trying to piece together these last known pieces.

 

[Meri]

So they used familial DNA to identify him.

This was the same tool used to nab the Grim Sleeper, who went undetected for a whole decade, until resurfacing again.

He appeared on a TV dating show. Police finally caught up to him in his old age.

I don't think the Grim Sleeper, Lonnie David Franklin Jr., was the guy on the Dating Game. I think it was Rodney Alcala.

 

[summer_breeze]

I'm locking/closing this thread for a period of time until it can be reviewed.

 

[bessie]

MOD NOTE: The bickering has to stop now! If you find a post offensive, DO NOT reply. Send an alert and keep moving. Mods will respond as soon as possible.

Use the Ignore function if you have a consistent problem with a particular poster.

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[summer_breeze]

Please move on over to the newest thread, Thread #6. Link below

Found Deceased NY/Turkey - Sarai Sierra, 33, 21 Jan 2013 - Mother of two killed in Istanbul #6 - Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community