GUILTY TX - Alanna Gallagher, 6, Saginaw, 1 July 2013 - #6

[IBsleuthin]

Hmm. Let me say in advance I am not very sold on Opal's killer having been wrongly convicted, but maybe if he really is mentally impaired, he had another person "masterminding" it, and he took the fall.

Oh I have thought the same thing.

 

[SCHMAE]

Looking at similar cases nearby is paramount imho to a case like this. I would feel better if LE would come out and eliminate the family but they've said nothing to indicate the family is even on their radar. So that means there is someone in the area who kills small girls.If it were family , one could assume it was isolated. But since it is not family and we know so much on WS, we have to assume it is NOT isolated. If this is the only time, then I'm sure it is the FIRST of many times for this perp. The fact that within this metroplex, there are 3 unsolved cases of similar girls has to be looked at. I hope LE is looking and if they have, it would be nice if they'd come out to say they don't think there is any relation. Heck, to my knowledge I don't think any LE or anyone has ever said the first THREE cases, Ashley, Amber, Opal Jo, are related or even that they might be. But for Ashley and Amber, there was DNA at the scene, so their killer is at LARGE . We know this, because if their killer was caught on another charge , his dna would be run through , right? Taking Opal out of the equation because we do not know if her killer is in jail and because I am unaware of any dna found because her body's condition I believe was ....skeletal ....when she was found, then we have at least ONE and possibly TWO killers of young girls on the streets for over 10 to 15 yrs , locally. What are the odds those one to two perps never killed again? I'm not going to say zero, but I think the odds are pretty small, especially since we know they got away with it . This is why LE doesn't broadcast what they know...... Imagine this headline :

Heads up Dallas / Ft Worth . There are 4 child killers loose in the area. But you're perfectly safe.

No LE would ever say that and if they did, I doubt any MSM would print it because people would panic, but the reality is now with Alanna, there are at least THREE and possibly FOUR loose on the street. I think it's very reasonable one of these girls may be connected to each other. Even in other states, when a young girl is found I wonder if this perp might be Amber's perp. I think one day someone will get caught somewhere and clear up one or two of these cases. Maybe it's Alanna's.

 

[Jo in Calif]

Does LE still think there's no need for community concern regarding this child's death, and if so, any idea why they think that?

There has been no updates on this. If they are thinking on the lines of the forum this morning, they might want to reconsider.

My personal thoughts on this is that she was not sexually molested and possibly something found with her body.

 

[Jo in Calif]

Looking at similar cases nearby is paramount imho to a case like this. I would feel better if LE would come out and eliminate the family but they've said nothing to indicate the family is even on their radar. So that means there is someone in the area who kills small girls.If it were family , one could assume it was isolated. But since it is not family and we know so much on WS, we have to assume it is NOT isolated. If this is the only time, then I'm sure it is the FIRST of many times for this perp. The fact that within this metroplex, there are 3 unsolved cases of similar girls has to be looked at. I hope LE is looking and if they have, it would be nice if they'd come out to say they don't think there is any relation. Heck, to my knowledge I don't think any LE or anyone has ever said the first THREE cases, Ashley, Amber, Opal Jo, are related or even that they might be. But for Ashley and Amber, there was DNA at the scene, so their killer is at LARGE . We know this, because if their killer was caught on another charge , his dna would be run through , right? Taking Opal out of the equation because we do not know if her killer is in jail and because I am unaware of any dna found because her body's condition I believe was ....skeletal ....when she was found, then we have at least ONE and possibly TWO killers of young girls on the streets for over 10 to 15 yrs , locally. What are the odds those one to two perps never killed again? I'm not going to say zero, but I think the odds are pretty small, especially since we know they got away with it . This is why LE doesn't broadcast what they know...... Imagine this headline :

Heads up Dallas / Ft Worth . There are 4 child killers loose in the area. But you're perfectly safe.

No LE would ever say that and if they did, I doubt any MSM would print it because people would panic, but the reality is now with Alanna, there are at least THREE and possibly FOUR loose on the street. I think it's very reasonable one of these girls may be connected to each other. Even in other states, when a young girl is found I wonder if this perp might be Amber's perp. I think one day someone will get caught somewhere and clear up one or two of these cases. Maybe it's Alanna's.

But we also know that no one has been eliminated. Don't know for sure if LE has been quoted as saying that they were not their "prime" suspects or not, if they have that noes not say that they are not suspects. They have said I believe that 'everyone' are suspects,

 

[IBsleuthin]

My hubby says that if a person cannot explain something complex in simple trems to someone, that person has no understanding of the complex issue. That would be me.

Anyway, in spite of the dinner conversations at my home being about things such as torque and whatever else, my eyes would glaze over. So, when the issues of physics come up, I can only scream in my mind.

If anyone has the understanding, maybe this has something to do with why liquids move around?

http://www.physics.umn.edu/outreach/pforce/circus/Bernoulli.html

My mother confessed that she both drank and smoked when she was pregnant with me. (This was many, many years ago and everyone pretty much did, they didn't know any better).

I have then used this as an excuse as to why my brain doesn't work very well and I believe I have a low IQ. :fence:

When it comes to actual math I'm at about a 4th grade level but physics? Wow I love physics. This seems so logical to me.

But I digress...


Your husband and I share the very same belief. Whenever I've heard someone attempt to explain something and they do it in such a confusing way as to make themselves look very intelligent, my first thought is that they have NO CLUE what they are talking about.

Thank you for this link.



As it pertains to the side to side motion and how this child ended up where she did, we may never know.

In :moo: this is what drew me to the idea of two people involved. When I just look at the overhead photo of where the tarp is in the intersection in spatial relation to the stop sign and during a quiet evening in a suburb, to me it looks like we have one person driving and the other person quietly opening the vehicle door and sliding that whole thing right out and then they quietly drive away.

Enough experience was there to keep a cool head under pressure, to know that if they did this quietly no one would suspicion, and no one did.

No one saw the abductor of Ashley Estell and that poor kid was in the middle of a crowded sports field with her parents just a little ways away. THAT TAKES EXPERIENCE.


That is also why I hold out some doubt about Terri Horman and Kyron but there I go again o/t.

 

[fred&edna]

Does LE still think there's no need for community concern regarding this child's death, and if so, any idea why they think that?

"The investigation is still in its beginning stages, police spokesman Officer Damon Ing said.

Police believe the slaying is an isolated case, Ing said.

"I can assure the community of Saginaw and all surrounding areas that you're perfectly safe in this community," he said."


http://www.nbcdfw.com/news/local/Saginaw-Child-Found-in-Tarp-Identified-214189511.html


Why is a good question. IMO... LE's reassurance of safety came awfully early.

 

[human]

First, be warned this complaint is pretty graphic. The references regarding relative in Prescott, AZ start on p. 6.

http://www.scribd.com/doc/53362002/Sharon-Lee-Anderson-complaint

Again, sorry if this seems OT......but to come full circle there was *advertiser censored* found in Dunn home, there seems to be a lot of this activity in areas E/SE of metroplex incl this, Mineola Sex Ring which was busted around same time. And, there have been rumored links to Amber Hagerman.

Not to say this has anything to do with Alanna, OJ, or any of these other angels.....but......shudder.......

They sure were stupid to leave pictures.

 

[IBsleuthin]

"Jumping to conclusions only keeps your butt in shape." ~IBsleuthin

That statement by LE about being 'perfectly safe' made me think of this.

 

[GingerzMomma]

Looking at similar cases nearby is paramount imho to a case like this. I would feel better if LE would come out and eliminate the family but they've said nothing to indicate the family is even on their radar. So that means there is someone in the area who kills small girls.If it were family , one could assume it was isolated. But since it is not family and we know so much on WS, we have to assume it is NOT isolated. If this is the only time, then I'm sure it is the FIRST of many times for this perp. The fact that within this metroplex, there are 3 unsolved cases of similar girls has to be looked at. I hope LE is looking and if they have, it would be nice if they'd come out to say they don't think there is any relation. Heck, to my knowledge I don't think any LE or anyone has ever said the first THREE cases, Ashley, Amber, Opal Jo, are related or even that they might be. But for Ashley and Amber, there was DNA at the scene, so their killer is at LARGE . We know this, because if their killer was caught on another charge , his dna would be run through , right? Taking Opal out of the equation because we do not know if her killer is in jail and because I am unaware of any dna found because her body's condition I believe was ....skeletal ....when she was found, then we have at least ONE and possibly TWO killers of young girls on the streets for over 10 to 15 yrs , locally. What are the odds those one to two perps never killed again? I'm not going to say zero, but I think the odds are pretty small, especially since we know they got away with it . This is why LE doesn't broadcast what they know...... Imagine this headline :

Heads up Dallas / Ft Worth . There are 4 child killers loose in the area. But you're perfectly safe.

No LE would ever say that and if they did, I doubt any MSM would print it because people would panic, but the reality is now with Alanna, there are at least THREE and possibly FOUR loose on the street. I think it's very reasonable one of these girls may be connected to each other. Even in other states, when a young girl is found I wonder if this perp might be Amber's perp. I think one day someone will get caught somewhere and clear up one or two of these cases. Maybe it's Alanna's.

First, kkdj: to my knowledge, both husband & wife (Andersons) are in prison. I think Wanda Mitchell is, too? (need to look into that more......)

If we believe Franks was responsible for Opal, then "technically" there are merely three child killers loose. Well, unless it's one serial psycho. Of course, per IB's link on previous page, Ashley Estell was found w/ DNA of two men - possibly a collusion/conspiracy of some sort possible, then?

http://www.tdcaa.com/node/1442

And an awful lot of awful stuff I'm finding this morning, but does seem like there is/has been some kind of child sex ring operating here, and you can google other stories of how larger rings operated on Facebook have been busted recently.

Okay, I have to go get some stuff done today.......

 

[fred&edna]

O/T... Anyone experiencing excessive slow spin cycle here on WS OR is it just me?

 

[SilkySifaka]

"The investigation is still in its beginning stages, police spokesman Officer Damon Ing said.

Police believe the slaying is an isolated case, Ing said.

"I can assure the community of Saginaw and all surrounding areas that you're perfectly safe in this community," he said."


http://www.nbcdfw.com/news/local/Saginaw-Child-Found-in-Tarp-Identified-214189511.html


Why is a good question. IMO... LE's reassurance of safety came awfully early.

I think that is because they assumed it was one of the parents at first and IMO they did the second canvass (blocking off streets again as well) when some early test results came back as no match to any of the parents. They haven't said a word since then.

There is also the fact they don't want to cause panic and the idea of a child killer on the loose does...there are political reasons for "reassuring" everyone.

 

[human]

Looking at similar cases nearby is paramount imho to a case like this. I would feel better if LE would come out and eliminate the family but they've said nothing to indicate the family is even on their radar. So that means there is someone in the area who kills small girls.If it were family , one could assume it was isolated. But since it is not family and we know so much on WS, we have to assume it is NOT isolated. If this is the only time, then I'm sure it is the FIRST of many times for this perp. The fact that within this metroplex, there are 3 unsolved cases of similar girls has to be looked at. I hope LE is looking and if they have, it would be nice if they'd come out to say they don't think there is any relation. Heck, to my knowledge I don't think any LE or anyone has ever said the first THREE cases, Ashley, Amber, Opal Jo, are related or even that they might be. But for Ashley and Amber, there was DNA at the scene, so their killer is at LARGE . We know this, because if their killer was caught on another charge , his dna would be run through , right? Taking Opal out of the equation because we do not know if her killer is in jail and because I am unaware of any dna found because her body's condition I believe was ....skeletal ....when she was found, then we have at least ONE and possibly TWO killers of young girls on the streets for over 10 to 15 yrs , locally. What are the odds those one to two perps never killed again? I'm not going to say zero, but I think the odds are pretty small, especially since we know they got away with it . This is why LE doesn't broadcast what they know...... Imagine this headline :

Heads up Dallas / Ft Worth . There are 4 child killers loose in the area. But you're perfectly safe.

No LE would ever say that and if they did, I doubt any MSM would print it because people would panic, but the reality is now with Alanna, there are at least THREE and possibly FOUR loose on the street. I think it's very reasonable one of these girls may be connected to each other. Even in other states, when a young girl is found I wonder if this perp might be Amber's perp. I think one day someone will get caught somewhere and clear up one or two of these cases. Maybe it's Alanna's.

If DNA was found on a couple of the girls, apparently those cases are not related.

If DNA has come back from Alanna, then LE knows if it is related to any other cases they have on file in the US , right. Ones that have DNA available

 

[GingerzMomma]

They sure were stupid to leave pictures.

Sounds like they somehow (?) were given a "heads up" that the noose was about to tighten and they got the h-e-double-hockey-sticks out of Dodge as fast as they could.

But yeah, of ALL things to leave behind? Of course, I guess you wouldn't want to be caught fleeing with it in your possession because then you could never say "It's not mine!"......

 

[gitana1]

L-R
Opal Jo Jennings, Ashley Estell, AlannaGallagher, Amber Hagerman

Laura Kay Smither, 12. Found April 20, 1997, (one story says decapitated and naked, http://www.texnews.com/1998/texas/smither0403.html, another says strangled and floating in a pond, http://www.people.com/people/archive/article/0,,20136983,00.html).

Friendswood Texas is actually farther off in the Houston area.

 

[ArianeEmory]

O/T... Anyone experiencing excessive slow spin cycle here on WS OR is it just me?

Yep, load is definitely off-balance.

 

[Donjeta]

"The investigation is still in its beginning stages, police spokesman Officer Damon Ing said.

Police believe the slaying is an isolated case, Ing said.

"I can assure the community of Saginaw and all surrounding areas that you're perfectly safe in this community," he said."


http://www.nbcdfw.com/news/local/Saginaw-Child-Found-in-Tarp-Identified-214189511.html


Why is a good question. IMO... LE's reassurance of safety came awfully early.

It's just an odd statement overall. No one is perfectly safe anywhere.

 

[floridamomma]

Thanks! I can find absolutely no way to get to this article, however:

See Also: How Child *advertiser censored* Rings Flourish on Facebook: http://www.elliscountyobserver.com/...ensored*-ring-flourishes-on-facebook/(source: FBI)

Very, very weird. Please, anyone who cares to bother, let me know if you can somehow access this.

this link won't work, grrr!

 

[GingerzMomma]

If DNA was found on a couple of the girls, apparently those cases are not related.

If DNA has come back from Alanna, then LE knows if it is related to any other cases they have on file in the US , right. Ones that have DNA available

How would DNA on some but not all girls imply there was no relation? Could it be someone(s) learned better over time, or got sloppy a couple times?

Next, I don't know for sure that they run DNA against databases routinely. I think there are legal limits in some cases.....

http://www.fbi.gov/about-us/lab/biometric-analysis/codis/codis-and-ndis-fact-sheet

......and there seems to be a national backlog of processing such evidence - so how relevant is a "negative" result?

http://ac360.blogs.cnn.com/2013/05/28/outrage-over-nationwide-rape-kit-backlog/

 

[sophiebelle]

O/T... Anyone experiencing excessive slow spin cycle here on WS OR is it just me?

If I change threads, I get bumped off. I had major issues logging in, and if I take too long to read, I can't post and have to log in again. Vicious cycle.

 

[gitana1]

L-R
Opal Jo Jennings, Ashley Estell, AlannaGallagher, Amber Hagerman

To me, the similarities are striking.

Now I want to look up unsolved murders or missing children from 1999-2013 in other states to see if I can find any case that seems somewhat similar.

THIS is sleuthing.

If you're following the breadcrumbs, here is an interesting piece from the MSM that supports what you're probably finding on other sites:

http://www.wfaa.com/news/crime/Tip-leads-to-hope-in-solving-Amber-Hagermans-murder-117561839.html

"Neither police department is discussing the exact nature of the evidence, but Ennis investigators confirm they've contacted police in Arizona, trying to reach a man who used to work in Arlington in the mid 90s."

The article does also support that in addition to working this lead based on the Ennis sex ring case, that they "stumbled upon" an additional witness in Arlington. Oddly, the short piece that I linked earlier where they said lead(s) were "false" also says there never was an Arlington lead. If you're looking at non-MSM sites for info, it sounds like there was and she's another relative.

This is messed up. I don't even know what to say, but I can't help but wonder why so many links (including some on the Websleuths thread I linked to re: Dunn) are inaccessible/nonexistent. Very, very odd.

A lot of links will die over time. Many stations do not keep active links indefinitely.

You know, as I have said before, my instinct and my logic tell me Alanna's disappearance is likely connected to her home. But this is a vey intriguing theory (connecting other disappearances) and I agree with whoever said it is paramount that connections be explored.

What I would like to see is a list of potential suspects for each, any DNA links or hair links for any victim to any possible suspect ( a particular person or a white or black perp or multiple perps for one child, etc.), maps showing tha various locations of each disappearance and discovery and info about imprisonment a and locations for each possible perp throughout the years!

I want to point out that in Ashley's case I read that DnA cooncted her death to a man who may be in prison. (not the guy convicted for her murder).