UK - Elianne Andam, 15, stabbed to death in Croydon, London. Teenage boy arrested

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Dotta said:
Will this killer be tried as a minor or an adult?
He is 17.

Is he member of a gang?
I think so, considering a machete he was carrying.
Click to expand...
He is a minor, which is why he hasn't been named in the press, although his name has been floated around unofficially by several social media accounts.

Reporting from today's hearing says it was a kitchen knife and not a zombie knife as other eyewitness accounts seem to suggest. So might not have been one of these ghastly weapons that these teen gang members carry around with them in London these days, he might have just taken the biggest scariest knife he could find in his mother's kitchen and snook it out of the house without anyone knowing.
 
I wonder!

Some might say it was a "crime of passion".
Others can say it was premeditated - carrying a weapon.

Some say as a minor (17) his sentence will be short.

But as he is over 15, he might be treated as an adult.

Many questions.

But a beautiful, clever girl has been murdered!!! :(
Without question.

JMO
 
Dotta said:
I wonder!

Some might say it was a "crime of passion".
Others can say it was premeditated - carrying a weapon.

Some say as a minor (17) his sentence will be short.

But as he is over 15, he might be treated as an adult.

Many questions.

But a beautiful, clever girl has been murdered!!! :(
Without question.

JMO
Click to expand...
To add

In my country, a 17 year old charged with a PREMEDITATED murder is treated as an adult - meaning long/adult sentence in prison.
 
Further to the above, if this 17 year old offender had been a few months older (not years, MONTHS!) than he was when he murdered Elianne then he would be looking at more than double the minimum prison term he'll get! And his name would be identified in the national press as being the sad loser who knifed a schoolgirl to death because he was bitter about getting dumped.

I know you have to draw the line somewhere between an offender being culpable as an adult or culpable as a minor, but that is CRAZY!
 
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bobbymkii said:

In cases where the offender brings a knife to the scene and uses it to commit murder the starting point is 25
years for an offender aged 18 or over and 12 years for an offender aged under 18.

He could get as little as 12 years?! :oops:
Click to expand...

I think that may have changed recently/ be about to be changed:

www.bbc.co.uk

Ellie's Law: Parents of murdered girl win sentencing fight

The parents of Ellie Gould have succeeded in increasing minimum tariffs for teenage murderers.
www.bbc.co.uk

www.bbc.co.uk

Ellie Gould's mother backs longer sentences for killers

Ellie Gould's killer could have faced more time in prison if proposed changes had been in place.
www.bbc.co.uk
 
Just saw this -- please forgive if it is a repeat -- news from this side of the pond:
- - - - - - - - - - - -

Girl, 15, Stabbed to Death on Way to School, as Idris Elba Posts Powerful Message About Violence​

Elianne Andam was allegedly stabbed by a 17-year-old boy who police say knew her
By Samira Asma-Sadeque
Published on September 28, 2023 05:12PM EDT

A British teenager was stabbed to death while walking to school in South London on Wednesday morning, allegedly by another teenager who knew her, according to the Metropolitan Police.
Police have identified the victim as 15-year-old Elianne Andam. The victim's family, in a statement, said the girl was "the light of our lives."
[...]
Witnesses described a gruesome scene.
“The blood was coming like water. A lot of people came, everyone came off the bus,” Victor Asare, a security worker who was near the scene, told the BBC.
Anthony King, chairman of My Ends, a violence prevention organization in London, told the BBC that local community groups were aware of the suspect for a couple of years.
- - - - - - - - - - - - -
More of the article here:
people.com

Girl, 15, Stabbed to Death on Way to School, as Idris Elba Posts Powerful Message About Violence

Elianne Andam was allegedly stabbed by a 17-year-old boy who police say knew her.
people.com people.com
 
SuspiciousM said:
Those misogynistic attitudes are rife in gangs and have been for some time.

Sadly, they aren’t confined to gangs (it would be bad enough if that were the case).

I think the damage which individuals like Andrew Tate have done with their violent misogynistic and controlling approach which is broadcast to over 6m followers cannot be underestimated. Many young men seem to be star struck and bewitched by him.

Vile individuals like Laurence Fox in the UK discussing a woman he disagrees with politically by saying “What real man would get into bed with that woman? ” and going on to use nasty demeaning terminology whilst a male interviewer laughs along.

The approaches to women shared and amplified by online incel groups is horrifying.

Then there are the hideous misogynistic attitudes within the Metropolitan Police as demonstrated by the multiple cases of rape and domestic violence within the workforce and the utterly vile ‘banter’ shared in their WhatsApp groups.

All these things continue to demean women and make their lives less safe.
Click to expand...
Excellent post. Thanks for putting it where it is. SMH.
 
nao said:
Moo..zombie knifes, machetes and many many types of knives are illegal in the UK. In my opinion knives in the UK are the equivalent of guns in the USA moo
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It's been said it was actually a kitchen knife.

Knives are tools, you can't chop veg with a pistol. But shouldn't be carried in public.

Knife crime will never end, so long as there are humans.
 
www.dailymail.co.uk

Candlelight vigil is held for Croydon schoolgirl Elianne Andam

Elianne, a pupil at the Old Palace of John Whitgift school was attacked at 8.30am on September 27 after she tried to protect a friend.
www.dailymail.co.uk www.dailymail.co.uk


The road was closed to allow space for the many who wished to say goodbye to Elianne as people gathered underneath a painting of the beloved teenager.

Tearful friends and members of the public left flowers, cards, photos, balloons and cuddly toys in her memory.

Attendees were encouraged to write in a book of condolences for Elianne's family.

The flowers have reached seven rows deep, while anti-violence notes have been left reading: 'Youth stop killing each other. No to stabbing. No to violence' and 'Why?'.

A short statement from Elianne's family was read on their behalf by Bishop of Croydon Rosemarie Mallett.

She said: 'We, as a family, are struggling to comprehend this painful tragedy that has happened to our beautiful daughter and beloved sister Elianne. Our hearts are broken and we are overwhelmed by sorrow and grief.
 
SusanDonim said:
It's been said it was actually a kitchen knife.

Knives are tools, you can't chop veg with a pistol. But shouldn't be carried in public.

Knife crime will never end, so long as there are humans.
Click to expand...
Moo.. UK has less mass murders or killings in general because there are few guns there. Though more physical violence takes place instead of the quick bullet.
 
nao said:
Moo.. UK has less mass murders or killings in general because there are few guns there. Though more physical violence takes place instead of the quick bullet.
Click to expand...

It's correct that there's a higher rate of unarmed violence, but it's more common, not more frequent. 41% of homicides in England & Wales in 21/22 were with a sharp instrument, but this is equivalent to 286 cases. In 2021 the USA had over a thousand incidences of this.

Obviously a difficult set of statistics to compare given the population sizes, but interesting to look at nonetheless!

Homicides by method of killing England and Wales 2022 | Statista
Homicides by murder weapon in the U.S. 2021 | Statista
 
pokerowan said:
Obviously a difficult set of statistics to compare given the population sizes, but interesting to look at nonetheless!
Click to expand...
Generally, homicide rates are notably, notably higher in the US than in the EU. Of course it depends a little on methodology (what counts as homicide) and it can vary more for specific methods (like stabbing), but the difference is so big that it is very unlikely to change the rates around. I only found a comparsion that goes up to 2016, but the US is shown as having ~30-40% more per capita knife murders than the UK (the word "murder" could be either a terminology mistake or reflect a different methodology).

As for homicides by knife in the UK, there has probably been a little increase in the last decade, but it is actually not very noticeable, especially if you look at a longer time period - it might be moreso that the demographics involved have changed, not that the numbers have increased so much.
 
Supernovae said:
I think that may have changed recently/ be about to be changed:

www.bbc.co.uk

Ellie's Law: Parents of murdered girl win sentencing fight

The parents of Ellie Gould have succeeded in increasing minimum tariffs for teenage murderers.
www.bbc.co.uk

www.bbc.co.uk

Ellie Gould's mother backs longer sentences for killers

Ellie Gould's killer could have faced more time in prison if proposed changes had been in place.
www.bbc.co.uk
Click to expand...
That's good news. There are too many murders by ex partners or when a woman is trying to leave their partner.
 

''According to the United Nations Office of Drugs and Crime's 2019 Global Study on Homicide, knives were the weapon of choice in 97,183 homicides in 2017, a full 22% of the world's total. Knife attacks and stabbing deaths occur all over the globe, from those with high rates of violent crime to the safest countries in the world. That said, the frequency of knife-related violence (which includes not only knives but also other "sharp objects" such as scissors or axes) varies greatly from one region to the next.
In North America, firearm deaths were responsible for roughly 76% of all homicides, with knife-related homicides accounting for less than 20%. However, the numbers are reversed in Europe, where guns account for barely 20% of homicides but knives are used nearly 40% of the time. In fact, the United Nations identified sixteen countries in which knives and sharp instruments were used in more than half of the country's homicides.''

Top 10 Countries with the Most Stabbing Deaths - GHDE 2019 estimates​

  1. Brazil - 9,885
  2. South Africa - 9,424
  3. India - 8,931
  4. Russia - 6,336
  5. Philippines - 5,491
  6. Nigeria - 5,099
  7. Mexico - 4,699
  8. China - 4,590
  9. Pakistan - 3,388
  10. Colombia - 3,131

Knife Violence in Europe​

Stabbing deaths and injuries are more common in Europe than in the Americas. Particularly in northern Europe, where levels of knife crimes among young people have increased and made headlines. Deaths by sharp objects are especially noticeable in the 15-19 and 20-24 age groups in Northern and Western European countries. The proportion of knife deaths is about three times greater than firearm deaths in these countries for the 20-24 age group. Between 2002 and 2007, hospital admissions for assault by a knife or sharp object increased by 34%. One high-profile example of homicide by knife in Europe occurred in 2013, when a 13-year-old girl was stabbed to death in the United Kingdom. Her death sparked anti-knife campaigns throughout the U.K.''
 
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