VERDICT WATCH UK - Nurse Lucy Letby, Faces 22 Charges - 7 Murder/15 Attempted Murder of Babies #29

[Sweeper2000]

Or even emphasis from the prosecution on the irregularity of her doing so whereas in other similar events he did.

 

[ColourPurple]

@ColourPurple
“She wasn't even supposed to be there with the parents. It's not really a case of her finding herself in an unavoidably awkward situation and not knowing what to say. She deliberately put herself in that situation, presumably because that's where she wanted to be, rather than looking after her designated baby.”

Wait, so I remember asking this at the time this info was presented. was this something ll took on herself then and wasn’t asked to retrieve and place in the cold cot by her senior or acting senior? thats new info to me.

The only thing she was instructed to do by her senior, in relation to Baby C was to stop going into the family room where his parents were with him, and to go back to her own designated baby. Baby C's father believes that it was LL who came in with a ventilated basket and said "You've said your goodbyes now, do you want to put him in here".

 

[iamshadow21]

I don’t remember any testimony from Other staff saying her offering the cold cot was unusual or even outside of guidelines?

It's that she wasn't even meant to be there. It wasn't her role to be offering them anything, and she had been told more than once to leave them alone.

Imagine having a therapy session, and the therapist who is responsible for another patient in the next room keeps coming in and trying to give you therapy. They're not your therapist, and they're neglecting their own patient to keep coming in and intruding on your session. It's completely inappropriate. You having therapy in that room is nothing unusual! But that therapist's behaviour is completely over the line.

MOO

 

[ColourPurple]

I don’t remember any testimony from Other staff saying her offering the cold cot was unusual or even outside of guidelines?

I don't think it needed anybody else's testimony to explain how inappropriate it was.

 

[Parker Knoll]

Exactly - she wasn’t supposed to be there or wanted so why WAS she there ?
It can only be a macabre “ vested interest “ in Baby C
JMO

 

[Dotta]

Imagine having a therapy session, and the therapist who is responsible for another patient in the next room keeps coming in and trying to give you therapy. They're not your therapist, and they're neglecting their own patient to keep coming in and intruding on your session. It's completely inappropriate. You having therapy in that room is nothing unusual! But that therapist's behaviour is completely over the line.

MOO

I would think the other therapist fancied me!!

 

[Sweeper2000]

i did actually take a negative from that situation. Now I’m surprised that that also wasn’t pointed out by the prosecution. I remember there was an occasion where the P was stating that the evidence indicates a certain level of voyeurism was going on, is this that case?

if it is I’m wondering it if was just Nick KC including the cold cot incident within that statement. Eta no that was baby i with the condolence card and the quote is “voyeuristic tendencies”.

'Her voyeuristic tendencies drove her to look up her mum on the internet. She inflicted pain on Baby I on more than one occasion and ultimately succeeded in killing her.”

Lucy Letby 'revelled in killing baby and sent card to family'

Neonatal nurse Lucy Letby was so excited at her success that she interrupted the parents of (Baby) I as they bathed the dead infant, Manchester Crown Court heard.

www.dailymail.co.uk

 

[iamshadow21]

I would think the other therapist fancied me!!

Okay, I guess our therapy experiences have been different. Imagine that you've worked really hard to get to a point where you're ready to start talking about something incredibly painful with the one person who you've worked up to this point with. And then their colleague, who you don't know and haven't built a relationship of trust with wants to talk to you about very private things. Without them being your therapist. Just busting through the door and wanting to sit in or ask you questions about your trauma.

It wouldn't matter how good a relationship I had with my therapist, but that would freak me out so bad and break my trust in their practice irrevocably. You wouldn't see me for the dust. I'd be gone.

MOO

 

[Dotta]

Okay, I guess our therapy experiences have been different. Imagine that you've worked really hard to get to a point where you're ready to start talking about something incredibly painful with the one person who you've worked up to this point with. And then their colleague, who you don't know and haven't built a relationship of trust with wants to talk to you about very private things. Without them being your therapist. Just busting through the door and wanting to sit in or ask you questions about your trauma.

It wouldn't matter how good a relationship I had with my therapist, but that would freak me out so bad and break my trust in their practice irrevocably. You wouldn't see me for the dust. I'd be gone.

MOO

It was a joke.
And I have never had any therapies

 

[Kemug]

LL does seem to be a strange person, underneath the pleasant conventional exterior. I really am expecting to hear about some odd things in her past, such as how she treated pets, and playmates. Of course, if she is found NG, then I don't suppose we will hear anything at all.

 

[Kemug]

I also wonder why LL went into nursing - I really can't believe that she had a burning desire to help and comfort the sick. If it wasn't to have power over sick/frail patients, then was it because of ambition perhaps?

 

[ColourPurple]

i did actually take a negative from that situation. Now I’m surprised that that also wasn’t pointed out by the prosecution. I remember there was an occasion where the P was stating that the evidence indicates a certain level of voyeurism was going on, is this that case?

if it is I’m wondering it if was just Nick KC including the cold cot incident within that statement. Eta no that was baby i with the condolence card and the quote is “voyeuristic tendencies”.

'Her voyeuristic tendencies drove her to look up her mum on the internet. She inflicted pain on Baby I on more than one occasion and ultimately succeeded in killing her.”

Lucy Letby 'revelled in killing baby and sent card to family'

Neonatal nurse Lucy Letby was so excited at her success that she interrupted the parents of (Baby) I as they bathed the dead infant, Manchester Crown Court heard.

www.dailymail.co.uk

It was mentioned in the judge's summing up too. LL didn't recall making the comment.

The father of Child C said a nurse, who he later believed to be Letby [based on her picture appearing in the newspaper] had said to the parents in the family room 'you've said your goodbyes now, do you want to put him in here?', referring to a basket for Child C. He said Child C's mother said "He's not dead yet", and the nurse then backtracked.

Letby had accepted she had made searches for Child C's parents on Facebook 10 hours after, but could not remember doing so, or why. She questioned whether she was the nurse who said the 'you've said your goodbyes...' comment, and did not recall saying it. She said she was very sad for the parents.

In evidence, she said she did not recall any specific contact with the parents. She said the search for the parents were as they were 'very much on her mind' at that time, as 'you don't forget' events like those which had happened to Child C.

and...

The nursing colleague recalled asking Letby "more than once" to look after her designated babies that night, and it was not part of her responsibilities to be in the family room, as that was for Melanie Taylor.

Recap: Lucy Letby trial, July 3 - judge's summing up

The trial of Lucy Letby, who denies murdering seven babies at the Countess of Chester Hospital neonatal unit and attempting to murder 10 more, is…

www.chesterstandard.co.uk

 

[Sweeper2000]

So nothing from Mel T about the cold cot or verbal acknowledgement of LL involvement in the situation?

 

[MissMarbles]

We're well over 50 pages now on this thread..... does anyone know how/who creates a new thread? Just think it makes sense to do asap in case this discussion gets a flurry of activity.@sillybilly ?

 

[ColourPurple]

So nothing from Mel T about the cold cot or verbal acknowledgement of LL involvement in the situation?

Her notes say she told the parents they could do things at their pace when they were ready (the shift leader mentions LL):

An addendum made at 8.14am said: "Parents stated with [Child C], they took him round to quiet room...registrar went round to quiet room, as mum concerned he is still gasping and has pulse. Doctor explained that it is a brainstem response following resuscitation, further discussion with parents, parents happy for [Child C] to have IV morphine for comfort.

"Maternal and paternal grandparents present, discussed with parents what they would like to do, and offered that we can do it at their pace when they are ready."

The note concludes that a camera was left with the parents if they wished to take photos of Child C. They declined, and had taken some photos on their phone. Child C's hand and footprints were made for the parents.

The senior nurse/shift leader said:

The nurse remembers resuscitation efforts were made, and Child C was baptised, and overseeing palliative care to make the baby boy more comfortable before he died.

The prosecution asks: "Whose responsibility is it to ensure the memory box is made and who takes care of it?"

The nurse: "The designated nurse at the time, if they're able."

The nurse said Melanie Taylor took over as designated nurse (my note-from Sophie Ellis) and "partly" arranged the memory box.

The nurse explains she asked Lucy Letby to focus back on a baby in nursery room 3, but Letby went into the family room "a few times". The nurse recalled asking Lucy Letby to leave the family to Melanie Taylor.

The nurse tells the court Letby did not have any designated duties to be in the family room, and told her "more than once" not to be in the family room.

Recap: Lucy Letby trial, Friday, October 28

The trial of Lucy Letby, who denies murdering seven babies at the Countess of Chester Hospital neonatal unit and attempting to murder 10 more,…

www.chesterstandard.co.uk

Recap: Lucy Letby trial, Monday, October 31

The trial of Lucy Letby, who denies murdering seven babies at the Countess of Chester Hospital neonatal unit and attempting to murder 10 more,…

www.chesterstandard.co.uk

 

[iamshadow21]

So nothing from Mel T about the cold cot or verbal acknowledgement of LL involvement in the situation?

Nothing here from MT. She talks about the process of what was offered to the parents, IMO, as if she handled it herself. It was her responsibility, after all:

Recap: Lucy Letby trial, Friday, October 28

The trial of Lucy Letby, who denies murdering seven babies at the Countess of Chester Hospital neonatal unit and attempting to murder 10 more,…

www.chesterstandard.co.uk

The unnamed nurse talks about LL's behaviour on the next day, here:

Recap: Lucy Letby trial, Monday, October 31

The trial of Lucy Letby, who denies murdering seven babies at the Countess of Chester Hospital neonatal unit and attempting to murder 10 more,…

www.chesterstandard.co.uk

 

[nyvictoria]

Exactly - she wasn’t supposed to be there or wanted so why WAS she there ?
It can only be a macabre “ vested interest “ in Baby C
JMO

I find her behavior with the parents of this baby beyond disturbing. If I was on the jury, this would convince me to vote guilty for this baby. I’d then apply this to every other baby death. In my mind, if I’m convinced that she did one, she did them all.

 

[ColourPurple]

I find her behavior with the parents of this baby beyond disturbing. If I was on the jury, this would convince me to vote guilty for this baby. I’d then apply this to every other baby death. In my mind, if I’m convinced that she did one, she did them all.

It's also the case that fits really well with the "I killed them on purpose because I'm not good enough to care for them".( IMO if guilty)The prosecution' theory is that she killed Baby C (Sophie Ellis's designated baby) due to not being allowed to work in room 1 that night when Sophie was. Baby C collapsed 6 minutes after LL's text conversation with Jennifer Jones-Key.


Mr Johnson moves on to the shift in which Letby was present. A shift rota is shown to the court, showing Letby was looking after two babies that night on June 13. She was in nursery room 3, with Child C in room 1 that night.

Mr Johnson says this was another shift when Letby had "migrated" to room 1.

Letby: "Yes, in response to [Child C's] care needs." She says she has no recollection of going to see Child C prior to his collapse.

Letby says she was unhappy at being in room 3 for that shift - as opposed to room 1 - but that was the decision of the prior shift leader.

Letby's nursing colleague had said Letby's designated baby in room 3 needed attention, after Letby had asked if she could be redeployed to room 1 that night.

Letby: "Yes, [they] did need attention and I gave [them] attention."

Letby had sent a message to Jennifer Jones-Key: "I just keep thinking about Mon. Feel like I need to be in 1 to overcome it but [colleague] said no x"

JJK: "I agree with her don't think it will help. You need a break from full on ITU. You have to let it go or it will eat you up i know not easy and will take time x"

LL: "Not the vented baby necessarily. I just feel I need to be in 1 to get the image out of my head, Mel has said the same and [colleague] let her go. Being in 3 is eating me up, all I can see is him in 1"

"It probably sounds odd but it's how I feel X"

JJK: "Well it's up to you but don't think it's going to help. It sounds very odd and I would be complete opposite. Can understand [colleague] she trying to look after you all"

LL: "Well that's how I feel, from when I've experienced it at women's I've needed to go straight back and have a sick baby otherwise the image of the one you lost never goes. Why send Mel in if she's trying to look after us, She was in bits over it. X

"Don't expect people to understand but I know how I feel and how I've dealt with it before, I've voiced that so can't do anymore but people should respect that X"

JJK: "Ok x

JJK: "I think They do respect it but also trying to help you. Why don't you go in one for a bit. X"

LL: "Yeah I've done couple of meds in 1. I'll be fine X"

JJK: "It didn't sound like you would be? Sorry was eating my tea x"

LL: ...Forget i said anything, I'll be fine,It's part of the job just don't feel like there is much team spirit tonight X"

JJK: "...I'm not going to forget but just think your way to hard on yourself. It is part of the job but the worst part but I do believe it makes us stronger people."

LL: "Unfortunately I've seen my fair share at the women's but you are supported differently & here it's like people want to tell you how to think/Feel. Anyway. Onwards & upwards. Just shame i'm on with Mel & [colleague].Sophie in 1 so haven't got her to talk to either."

JJK: "Work is work.

A lot of the girls say women's don't support and tell them to get on with it. I think they don't mean to tell you thou and were over caring sometimes

Yeah that's not good but you got Liz x"

LL: "Women's can be awful but I learnt hard way that you have to speak up to get support. I lost a baby one day.and few hours later was given another dying baby just born in the same cot space. Girls there said it was important to overcome the image. It was awful but by.end of day i realised they were right. It's just different here X

"Anyway, forget it. I can only talk about it properly with those who knew him and Mel not interested so I'll overcome it myself. You get some sleep X"

Letby accepts there were two babies in room 1, but does not accept she was specifically wanting to look after Child C.

Letby tells the court: "It wasn't about me wanting to get my own way."

Letby accepts she was upset, "just generally", that her feeings weren't being considered by a colleague and Melanie Taylor.

Mr Johnson says if this was the Melanie Taylor who Letby had said "potentially" caused a child's death. Letby: "Potentially, yes."

JJK: "That's a bit mean isn't it. Don't have to know him to understand we've all been there. Yep off to bed now x"

LL: "I don't mean it like that, just that only those who saw him know what image i have in my head X

"Forget it. Im obviously making more of it than I should X"

Letby tells the court she had hoped Jennifer Jones-Key would have been more understanding to how she was feeling, and was frustrated, and the conversation was not going anywhere, so she wanted to "leave the conversation".

Letby says colleague Sophie Ellis was the least experienced member of staff on that shift and "did not have the skills for the job" of looking after small, premature babies in room 1.

"I did not think she was qualified for the job...She did not have the skills for the premature babies [in room 1]."

She denies that Sophie Ellis did anything to cause Child C's collapse.

Mr Johnson: "She had something you wanted?"

Letby: "No."

Recap: Lucy Letby trial, May 18 - prosecution cross-examines Letby

The trial of Lucy Letby, who denies murdering seven babies at the Countess of Chester Hospital neonatal unit and attempting to murder 10 more,…

www.chesterstandard.co.uk

 

[ColourPurple]

We're well over 50 pages now on this thread..... does anyone know how/who creates a new thread? Just think it makes sense to do asap in case this discussion gets a flurry of activity.

The mods normally create one. I hope we do hear some news today to get a flurry of activity though .

 

[iamshadow21]

The mods normally create one. I hope we do hear some news today to get a flurry of activity though .

I just reported on a post to (politely) ask for one, so, hopefully, soon.