VA - Grateful Dead Fan - Unidentified male, 26 June 1995 - #2

[MysticJynx]

Was looking for an image of what Grateful Jason Does T-shirt looked like prior to the accident. Found two pictures one of the front and one of the back. They were sold on Ebay.

The color doesn't seem as Red and Orange. Was more Pink Blue and Orange.

Also if he bought this shirt at the concert and changed, Where the heck did his other shirt go? With his I'd and other things? I would think if he was traveling/touring with the dead show he would have more stuff. Such as a sleeping bag. Maybe a change of clothing.

 

[MysticJynx]

They should think about donating some DNA for Shawn Hale.

Did another morph of Doe and Hale. I think his eyes nose and lips in the reconstruction of Doe matches a lot to the facial features of Shawn.

Boredum Keeps Me Busy. So here is the Doe morph Hale backwards Hale morph Doe.

middle is 50% last 100% of the face transparency in them. on both sets.

 

[LucyOso]

Was looking for an image of what Grateful Jason Does T-shirt looked like prior to the accident. Found two pictures one of the front and one of the back. They were sold on Ebay.

The color doesn't seem as Red and Orange. Was more Pink Blue and Orange.

Also if he bought this shirt at the concert and changed, Where the heck did his other shirt go? With his I'd and other things? I would think if he was traveling/touring with the dead show he would have more stuff. Such as a sleeping bag. Maybe a change of clothing.

All tie dyes are unique, color varies according to a lot of things...time in dye, wash process, batches of dye, etc...Good Find on the shirt!

 

[MysticJynx]

All tie dyes are unique, color varies according to a lot of things...time in dye, wash process, batches of dye, etc...Good Find on the shirt!

I would agree with you had this been a homemade shirt. This however is a mass produced t-shirt for a concert. It was probably hanging next to a dozen others that looked just like it in different sizes for the masses. My guess is most of the shirts that had this picture on it were the same colored tie dyed t-shirts mass produced with this grateful dead tour picture on it.

This is another 2 pictures of the shirt i found. Another that was sold on ebay. And some girl wearing her "Revamped" Dead tshirt from 95. Same as Grateful Jason Doe

 

[CallMeTres]

Of course you had area codes so people out side your area code could call. What I was asking was when in the VA area did you have to start dialing that area code inside your own area code, to call your neighbor or your neighborhood pizza joint?

The entirety of Virginia had one area code, 804, in the 1970s; we had to dial that area code to call outside of your locally accepted exchanges. As of 2008, when I moved to WV, you still did not have to dial the area code to reach anyone in your local exchanges.

Example:
To call from Hopewell (452 and 458 exchanges) to Richmond (355 and 353 exchanges) in 1990, I had to dial 1-804-*advertiser censored*-xxxx. To call from Chester (796 and 748 exchanges) to Richmond, I only had to dial *advertiser censored*-xxxx. However, Hopewell could call to Petersburg (732 and 733), Colonial Heights (520 and 526), and Chester without an area code. Any time you dialed 1 plus Area Code it was a long distance charge.

My office was in Richmond, my territory was the tri-Cities (Colonial Heights, Petersburg, Hopewell). When I bought my first house in 1990, I specifically looked in Chester because I needed to be able to call both Richmond and the tri-Cities without long distance charges.

The front few pages of the phone book would have a section that listed all local exchanges so that you would know that you didn't have to dial the area code first. If you tried to use the area code when calling to a local exchange, the phone company would refuse the call.

 

[CallMeTres]

Mystic, keep in mind that from the nose up on Jason Doe is pretty much conjecture. His facial damage was extensive.

It looks like Shawn has a cleft chin, but I can't really tell because of the beard. I've talked to Rainwater re: DNA for Shawn, but I'm not sure if I'm allowed to post about that because we discussed it in PMs. I really urge you to contact her as she knows this family extremely well.

 

[MysticJynx]

The entirety of Virginia had one area code, 804, in the 1970s; we had to dial that area code to call outside of your locally accepted exchanges. As of 2008, when I moved to WV, you still did not have to dial the area code to reach anyone in your local exchanges.

Example:
To call from Hopewell (452 and 458 exchanges) to Richmond (355 and 353 exchanges) in 1990, I had to dial 1-804-*advertiser censored*-xxxx. To call from Chester (796 and 748 exchanges) to Richmond, I only had to dial *advertiser censored*-xxxx. However, Hopewell could call to Petersburg (732 and 733), Colonial Heights (520 and 526), and Chester without an area code. Any time you dialed 1 plus Area Code it was a long distance charge.

My office was in Richmond, my territory was the tri-Cities (Colonial Heights, Petersburg, Hopewell). When I bought my first house in 1990, I specifically looked in Chester because I needed to be able to call both Richmond and the tri-Cities without long distance charges.

The front few pages of the phone book would have a section that listed all local exchanges so that you would know that you didn't have to dial the area code first. If you tried to use the area code when calling to a local exchange, the phone company would refuse the call.

You see here they have added area codes and you have to dial 1 plus the area code even if you are dialing to order pizza up the street. This didn't start till the late 90's that is why I asked. Which makes me think the number would have been a local number from either DC or the close by cities in Virginia or Maryland. Where some of the fans may have stayed during the 2 day concert. Or they were from the same city as Jason Doe?

 

[MysticJynx]

Mystic, keep in mind that from the nose up on Jason Doe is pretty much conjecture. His facial damage was extensive.

It looks like Shawn has a cleft chin, but I can't really tell because of the beard. I've talked to Rainwater re: DNA for Shawn, but I'm not sure if I'm allowed to post about that because we discussed it in PMs. I really urge you to contact her as she knows this family extremely well.

DNA Status: Initial inquiry underway
https://www.findthemissing.org/en/cases/7546/0/


I don't know why you keep telling me to write rainwater, she can see what I have been posting. What am I supposed to tell her, come check the forum? These are not facts, I am just an amateur sharing my opinions. If she feels the need to forward these posts to the family of Shawn Hale she is free to do so. I just hope the family has not given up on Shawn Hale.

And yes I do keep in mind that Jason Doe's picture is that of a digital reconstruction. after his body was thrown through a windshield and hit some trees. These reconstructions can be off by some too, Working from morgue pictures. I cant tell if Shawn had cleft chin either. Maybe you should contact rainwater and see if she can get any other pictures of Shawn to compare to Doe. I hear she is really close to the family. *giggles*

Or course Shawn Hale may not be Jason Grateful Doe. Chances are I am wrong. I was just trying to share what I saw. But I would feel, if it was my family, better to rule him out then not know at all.

 

[MysticJynx]

Faint veining pattern over the right upper arm resembling a faint tattoo. https://identifyus.org/en/cases/6095

Tried to make it more visible for everyone to see. And wonder if the markings could be the fainting of permanent marker?

There are comments and information where I found this posted on the Grateful Doe Facebook site. https://www.facebook.com/GratefulDo...0.1396416837./442425892497703/?type=3&theater. There are ideas of what it could be. I have no idea.

Any Ideas?

Don't know if freckles count but I notice he has one in the middle of his shoulder too.

 

[EmiLove832]

It looks like it could be a sharpie drawing that has faded away with washing and time.


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[Beamie]

I guess you've all seen this picture before, it was taken in 1995, July i think

 

[DrDMike]

Boredum Keeps Me Busy. So here is the Doe morph Hale backwards Hale morph Doe.

middle is 50% last 100% of the face transparency in them. on both sets.

Hale looks like he has crooked front teeth.

 

[DrDMike]

Faint veining pattern over the right upper arm resembling a faint tattoo. https://identifyus.org/en/cases/6095

Tried to make it more visible for everyone to see. And wonder if the markings could be the fainting of permanent marker?

There are comments and information where I found this posted on the Grateful Doe Facebook site. https://www.facebook.com/GratefulDo...0.1396416837./442425892497703/?type=3&theater. There are ideas of what it could be. I have no idea.

Any Ideas?

Don't know if freckles count but I notice he has one in the middle of his shoulder too.

I believe the tattoo is a bear which is the Grateful Dead mascot.

 

[MysticJynx]

I guess you've all seen this picture before, it was taken in 1995, July i think

View attachment 42496

Well if this picture was taken in July it can't be Doe.

I wonder about Doe's Shirt though. I see the guy in this photo also is wearing the same shirt. Dark pink orange and blue. Why is Doe's shirt so orange and red. It is said he dyed his hair with temporary die so this could have run into the shirt.

Then again the darkening and discoloration of the shirt could be from the accident.

 

[killarney rose]

I have and have had lots of tie-dyed t-shirts. There is a lot of variation in the hues, shades, colors, etc. you can dye an entire batch in the same way, yet no two are identical. So we don't need to get hung up on that. Some shirts like these could look reddish pink, while the red in others is a deeper, truer red.


Also, Hale's teeth do look crooked, while our Does teeth look straight. I am assuming his mouth didnt have as much damage as the upper portion of his face, so the teeth might be more accurate in the reconstruction?

 

[bcf]

I've just noticed that right under Doe's faint tattoo there is a small, circular scar. It looks like a vaccination scar or something (perhaps for smallpox?).

 

[Jerri Blank]

the shirt is probably a different color scheme because it is from a different show... if it is in fact an official tour shirt, it could be they released different color batches for each leg of the tour.

more likely, it looks like one of the 3000000 parking lot tour t-shirts i bought at shows when i was active in the jam band scene. i would go to shows all along the eastern seaboard. sometimes i would see the same shirts for sale after shows in different cities but often they were different. depending on how long after the show you encountered those t-shirt guys and when in the run it was (ie last show of in that city, last show on that tour, etc), you could get a shirt for pretty much nothing.

 

[Jerri Blank]

Faint veining pattern over the right upper arm resembling a faint tattoo. https://identifyus.org/en/cases/6095

Tried to make it more visible for everyone to see. And wonder if the markings could be the fainting of permanent marker?

There are comments and information where I found this posted on the Grateful Doe Facebook site. https://www.facebook.com/GratefulDo...0.1396416837./442425892497703/?type=3&theater. There are ideas of what it could be. I have no idea.

Any Ideas?

Don't know if freckles count but I notice he has one in the middle of his shoulder too.

BBM - I would sincerely hope that LE could tell the difference between a tattoo and faded permanent marker.

 

[MysticJynx]

I have and have had lots of tie-dyed t-shirts. There is a lot of variation in the hues, shades, colors, etc. you can dye an entire batch in the same way, yet no two are identical. So we don't need to get hung up on that. Some shirts like these could look reddish pink, while the red in others is a deeper, truer red.


Also, Hale's teeth do look crooked, while our Does teeth look straight. I am assuming his mouth didnt have as much damage as the upper portion of his face, so the teeth might be more accurate in the reconstruction?

Wasn't this Jason doe's digital reconstruction done many years later by looking at Morgue pictures? Can we be so sure how straight Doe's teeth are? Chances are he wasn't smiling. If the bottom half of his face was not damaged at all why not release a picture of that portion of his face? Maybe someone can recognize him better from the actual picture from his nose down.

And I highly doubt that the tie dyed tshirt worn on Doe was any different from the MASS produced ones for the dead. They do have ways of making one unique tie dyed tshirt into mass producing them for concert purposes. I doubt that each and every shirt that was sold over the country during the 95' tour were each made by hand rendering them all unique. Mass produced shirts will look alike. From the small size to the xxl size. The reason I brought up the shirt is because it is so different in shading. However I did find that DOE had TEMPORARY red hair dye in his hair. That was already coming out at the time of his death, that some of his hair looked pink in some places. That could be the reason for the color change in the shirt. Question is when did he dye his hair? Someone at the concert dye it? And if he did buy this shirt at the concert where the heck did his other shirt go? If both of them were ejected from the car, did they search the area for maybe a backpack belonging to Doe? Was everything in the van the drivers? I would think if he had been following the dead for sometime he would have carried a sleeping bag and/or a change of clothing, and with his good teeth a Toothbrush.

Maybe we should check Doe against kids that went missing as children. maybe someone raised a kidnapped child and when he went missing they didn't report him in fear of being found out he was kidnapped in the first place. example of such a case is https://www.findthemissing.org/en/cases/6234/0/ Wonder what this kid would have looked like in his teens and early twenties.

I don't know if Shawn Hale is Jason Doe. Again I stress that I was showing you what I do see. Sure there will be some differences in the actual photo of who ever Jason Doe is and his digital reconstruction. He had very bad head trama. I just thought looking at all the possibilities and ruling out those possibilities is better than standing idle not knowing either way. For both the family of Doe who ever they are and the missing persons family. In this case Shawn Hale. Wouldn't hurt to get the missing persons DNA for better comparison. Not only for Doe but for the missing persons sake. If doe is not Shawn, Shawn still could be deceased and remains waiting for DNA to identify him. There are many unidentified remains waiting to go home.

And yes CallMeTres, I wrote Rainwater! Waiting on her reply.
I just get a lil :chicken: at times.

 

[MysticJynx]

BBM - I would sincerely hope that LE could tell the difference between a tattoo and faded permanent marker.

Maybe the coroner wasn't used to seeing faded tattoos or faded permanent marker. Sharpie markers sometimes take days to SCRUB off. To the point of making your skin beat red trying to get it off. At least that has been my experiences when I've been drawn on with them. And if they were only going by eye, it could have been confused with fainted permanent sharpie markers. Not to mention all tattoos really are, is INK just beneath the skin. How experienced was the coroner? Greensville Co. VA. population of about 12,000 and size is 297sq miles.