VA - Grateful Dead Fan - Unidentified male, 26 June 1995 - #2

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Roselvr said:
Grateful Dead Fan Remains Nameless, 18 Years After Fatal Crash BY David Lohr
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I wanted to call out this article, as there are at least two new things in it that contradict what we've known before:

1. Our UID (I no longer know what to call him) was NOT with Eric Hager when he stopped by his dad's in Gloucester County, VA. Virginia State Police Lt. Ted Jones says "The theory is that the passenger was a hitchhiker [Hager] likely picked up between Gloucester and Emporia."

2. The Caroline note was not in his pocket, rather, it was found near the crash site and may not have ever been in our guy's possession.

These are HUGE changes to what we've known. Of course, the Caroline note still could have been his, but I'm tempted to think it was just a red herring all along.

And who got our guy from the concert in DC to wherever Hager picked him up? Getting a ride from a DC concert into Fairfax is no big deal, and there are a number of ways our guy could have done it. Getting a ride from DC to somewhere between Gloucester and Emporia by the next morning is a big undertaking.

Could it be that he just wanted to go anywhere and accepted whatever rides he could find? Maybe riding for several hours in a stranger's car was better than trying to sleep and hang out on the streets?

Or did he have family somewhere between Emporia and Inman, where Hager's mom lived? Someone got him part of the way; Hager saw the Grateful Dead t-shirt and was willing to go out of his way to help him get home?

I also think Hager picked him up somewhere along 58. Perhaps he got off at the Emporia exit for a drink, something to help him stay awake, and spotted our guy. Because if you think about it, how hard would it be to pick up a hitchhiker along an interstate? Even in Virginia (our speed limits are lower than many neighboring states), you'd be traveling at 65-80 mph, at least, and even if Hager had gotten a good look at our guy's shirt, he probably wouldn't have come to a complete stop along the shoulder until at least half a mile later. And it just plain feels unsafe to pull over alongside I-95. But on 58, especially if he'd just gotten off, he would have been going slower and there would have been less traffic.

Just my opinion.
 
GumDrop said:
Hi Sunshine,
I have tried to message you a few times but it's not working for some reason. But, if you click on the following link it will take you to the actual posting, and you can see her name. As far as I can tell there is only one person with the same name on facebook-and she is from Scotland.

http://www.yourfamily.com/roots/yourfam.mv?qy=purdie&xo=yfmsg&xc=Query&xn=202&xt=lost_bb

I would ask her if she is the one who posted the message back in 2000. A link to here and or the facebook page about him, is a good idea. I would also remind her that the images are sketches or reconstructions, and not an exact portrayal.

Good Luck, and Thank You So Much!!
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Thanks! I found 2 with that name and sent both messages and have not gotten a response... One seemed to live in the states, the other was private so I could only send a message. I am trying to pull up the link you gave here, to make sure I got the name right. Very curious!

I got the link pulled up and I did spell the name the same....

Also thinking, wasnt the ticket stub for the 2nd night not used or something like that?
 
Jerri Blank said:
not that it means much, but there is no place in Connecticut called "Hartwood"... the closest name I can think of Hartford. this may be part of why her jason has been tough to find?
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There is a Hartfield right north of Gloucester County VA... It seems to be in VA but perhaps there was a little mix up with names? It could even be someone he knew, but his dad didn't know?
 
Another interesting nugget from the HuffPost: Hager called his dad around 12 p.m. to say he was on his way to his mom's. The accident occurred at "roughly" 1:30 p.m. I'm assuming, perhaps incorrectly, that Hager called from his dad's house and not from a cell phone while driving.

Google Maps estimates that driving from Gloucester to Emporia takes 1 hour 54 minutes: https://goo.gl/maps/kYpdL

Now, it's possible his dad lived closer to Emporia than GM is assuming, and Hager may have been speeding. But if he was going relatively close to the maximum state speed limit at the time, 65 mph, it doesn't seem likely that he stopped for long to pick up our guy. He pulled over, the guy got in quickly, Hager took off and didn't stop at any other point on the trip.

Again, this makes me think Hager picked up our guy along 58, not 95. But then how did he end up falling asleep and crashing just a few miles later? Presumably there would be some initial conversation.
 
I don't understand how they are certain he wasn't with him when he stopped at dads (the driver) and a neighbor said they saw someone with him. Is it based on the fact that he didn't tell his dad he had someone with him? Also, I wonder if they tracked where that call to the father came from, he could have called from a friends house that he stopped by en route or something. If our guy was hitching from the DC shows, picking him up from somewhere between Richmond and the accident would make the most sense, in my opinion. I also wonder about falling asleep at the wheel. I would think having a new person in your car would help a little with staying awake? Do you guys know of other reasons a car would verge off like it did?
 
Sunshine95 said:
I would think having a new person in your car would help a little with staying awake? Do you guys know of other reasons a car would verge off like it did?
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I would have thought so too, but maybe our guy had been up all night and promptly fell asleep in the car. I wonder if Hager's girlfriend told police they had stayed up really late, in addition to the skid marks. Also the article said the van did brake before impact, so I guess they think he woke up but not in time to prevent the crash?
 
Something in the road could have caused him to verge and brake...A deer or some type of animal...

VW busses are not known for speed...


Classito
 
a few months back someone posted a google map of the location of the crash.

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showpost.php?p=10124096&postcount=12


it was only 2 mi off of the i-95 exit ramp. i brought up the question of how someone could fall asleep in two miles (obviously he was awake to make the turn off i-95 - most of those are giant circles so it's not like he could have gotten lucky and coasted off an exit ramp)? at 60mph it would take about two minutes to go that far (considering starting from a stop).

does anyone know if the location of the crash has been verified and if it's indeed that close?

i didn't make a big deal out of it earlier because it didn't seem to matter (the issue is the identity not the cause of the crash) however we seem to currently be throwing a lot of things to the wind so i thought i'd bring it up again.
 
ITA it would be really unlikely to fall completely asleep in 2 miles.... still i could see being so tired that you keep nodding off and catching yourself before you entirely fall asleep. as so many texting accidents have shown, it only takes a moment of inattention for something to go wrong. maybe as he nodded off, he drifted and caught himself and jerked the wheel a little too hard?

i am more interested in the idea that the note wasnt found on Jason. i always thought it came from one of his pockets...
 
cvillemegan said:
I wanted to call out this article, as there are at least two new things in it that contradict what we've known before:

1. Our UID (I no longer know what to call him) was NOT with Eric Hager when he stopped by his dad's in Gloucester County, VA. Virginia State Police Lt. Ted Jones says "The theory is that the passenger was a hitchhiker [Hager] likely picked up between Gloucester and Emporia."

2. The Caroline note was not in his pocket, rather, it was found near the crash site and may not have ever been in our guy's possession.

These are HUGE changes to what we've known. Of course, the Caroline note still could have been his, but I'm tempted to think it was just a red herring all along.

And who got our guy from the concert in DC to wherever Hager picked him up? Getting a ride from a DC concert into Fairfax is no big deal, and there are a number of ways our guy could have done it. Getting a ride from DC to somewhere between Gloucester and Emporia by the next morning is a big undertaking.

Could it be that he just wanted to go anywhere and accepted whatever rides he could find? Maybe riding for several hours in a stranger's car was better than trying to sleep and hang out on the streets?

Or did he have family somewhere between Emporia and Inman, where Hager's mom lived? Someone got him part of the way; Hager saw the Grateful Dead t-shirt and was willing to go out of his way to help him get home?

I also think Hager picked him up somewhere along 58. Perhaps he got off at the Emporia exit for a drink, something to help him stay awake, and spotted our guy. Because if you think about it, how hard would it be to pick up a hitchhiker along an interstate? Even in Virginia (our speed limits are lower than many neighboring states), you'd be traveling at 65-80 mph, at least, and even if Hager had gotten a good look at our guy's shirt, he probably wouldn't have come to a complete stop along the shoulder until at least half a mile later. And it just plain feels unsafe to pull over alongside I-95. But on 58, especially if he'd just gotten off, he would have been going slower and there would have been less traffic.

Just my opinion.
Click to expand...

I follow another case that facts have changed due to a new detective working on it. I wonder how much of this "new info" is actually wrong? My suggestion is to find out who has actually spoken to the original detective to figure out what is actually a fact.
 
It is only assumed that the driver fell asleep...Not a fact...As far as we know an animal could have been in the road..or another vehicle ran them off the road...or Jason Doe could have hijacked the driver and they wrestled and went off the road...

Strange that the driver did not catch 85 in Petersburg VA off of 95...Best route if he was above Petersburg and heading to Inman...


Classito
 
Classito said:
It is only assumed that the driver fell asleep...Not a fact...As far as we know an animal could have been in the road..or another vehicle ran them off the road...or Jason Doe could have hijacked the driver and they wrestled and went off the road...

Strange that the driver did not catch 85 in Petersburg VA off of 95...Best route if he was above Petersburg and heading to Inman...


Classito
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I highly doubt that there was a hijacking. Police said that Hager was the driver because only his prints were on the wheel. I really think there was a thorough investigation. After all, they did find that letter which was not on either of them.
 
Roselvr said:
My suggestion is to find out who has actually spoken to the original detective to figure out what is actually a fact.
Click to expand...
The Huffington Post article said Ted Jones, the Virginia State Police detective they interviewed, is "no longer working on the case." It's now managed by Dr. Kevin Whaley, who didn't return the HuffPost's phone calls.

I can see how it would be erroneously reported that the note was in his pocket. That only takes one person saying, "We found the note with him" when what they meant to say was, "We found the note near the vehicle," and somebody assumes "with him" means he had it in his pockets. What I don't understand is how it got out that he was with Hager when Hager stopped at his dad's. That's a harder fact to misinterpret.
 
cvillemegan said:
The Huffington Post article said Ted Jones, the Virginia State Police detective they interviewed, is "no longer working on the case." It's now managed by Dr. Kevin Whaley, who didn't return the HuffPost's phone calls.

I can see how it would be erroneously reported that the note was in his pocket. That only takes one person saying, "We found the note with him" when what they meant to say was, "We found the note near the vehicle," and somebody assumes "with him" means he had it in his pockets. What I don't understand is how it got out that he was with Hager when Hager stopped at his dad's. That's a harder fact to misinterpret.
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Exactly! Did someone see his vehicle without him in it? It could make a difference to know if he was or wasn't with him at the fathers house, in my opinion... If the driver is a dead head and was near the shows, I can't fathom him not at least hanging out outside of the show on "shakedown street"! They could have met, or met up if they already knew each other, outside the show. I wonder if anyone dropped out at drivers school around that time? They could have made the whole trip together... There was a LOT, my parents didn't know about me going to shows, who I was with and what we did...
Curious, are there drugs the tox screens may not have tested for, or wouldn't be detected, like LSD or ecstasy? There was a lot of that going around the parking lot those days...
 
Curious, are there drugs the tox screens may not have tested for, or wouldn't be detected, like LSD or ecstasy? There was a lot of that going around the parking lot those days...
Click to expand...

Nitrous

Classito
 
DrDMike said:
I highly doubt that there was a hijacking. Police said that Hager was the driver because only his prints were on the wheel. I really think there was a thorough investigation. After all, they did find that letter which was not on either of them.
Click to expand...

Regardless of how much or how good the investigation...the fact is..that Jason was a hitch hiker is still just an assumption...Ditto with the falling asleep at the wheel..


Classito
 
Roselvr said:
I follow another case that facts have changed due to a new detective working on it. I wonder how much of this "new info" is actually wrong? My suggestion is to find out who has actually spoken to the original detective to figure out what is actually a fact.
Click to expand...

The information is from the original officer.
 
Classito said:
Something in the road could have caused him to verge and brake...A deer or some type of animal...

VW busses are not known for speed...


Classito
Click to expand...

Per police, the van gradually went off the road, something indicative of someone falling asleep at the wheel.
 
Sunshine95 said:
I don't understand how they are certain he wasn't with him when he stopped at dads (the driver) and a neighbor said they saw someone with him. Is it based on the fact that he didn't tell his dad he had someone with him? Also, I wonder if they tracked where that call to the father came from, he could have called from a friends house that he stopped by en route or something. If our guy was hitching from the DC shows, picking him up from somewhere between Richmond and the accident would make the most sense, in my opinion. I also wonder about falling asleep at the wheel. I would think having a new person in your car would help a little with staying awake? Do you guys know of other reasons a car would verge off like it did?
Click to expand...

Per the officer, there was no neighbor who saw them together.
 
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