WA - Unidentified Male: "Lyle Stevik", Grays Harbor, 17 Sept 2001 - #2

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Oh WhiteWolf, you just sent a chill right down my spine!

I'm thinking 6 mos to lose 40 lbs. So maybe there is another reason he wasn't eating very well and wasn't out in the sunshine. Could he have been in a mental hospital or a correctional facility? Usually guys gain weight in jail, but if they are of the mind they want to die, maybe not!

Scandi
 
I'm with you on the light skin tone query. If he was light skinned from head to toe, he was either in a cold climate and bundled up to the nose for months on end, or he was inside/indoors like in a hospital or some other ward. there goes that bell in my head. another possibility... he was in the service and served on a ship, but it'd have to be a more administrative position that wouldn't rough up the hands and body. My brother was on the Forrestal.
don't remember him talking alot about the fresh air and sunshine at sea.
Just pitchin
kk
 
scandi said:
Oh WhiteWolf, you just sent a chill right down my spine!

I'm thinking 6 mos to lose 40 lbs. So maybe there is another reason he wasn't eating very well and wasn't out in the sunshine. Could he have been in a mental hospital or a correctional facility? Usually guys gain weight in jail, but if they are of the mind they want to die, maybe not!

Scandi
Click to expand...


Scandi, I'm starting to lean toward Lyle being closer to his early 20's because he reminds me so much of young men who get a growth spurt in their later teens, and they look gangly, especially coupled with the baggy pants/clothes style . The last reconstruction photo, where weight was added, look to me to be someone who has matured into their heigth and body frame (the second new photo). I also looked at the belt photos again, and it didn't look to me like there were more than a couple holes of the belt used extensively. I can see the buckle wear for when another hole was used, but most of the hole wear was just on a couple of holes.
 
Yes, it was the 3 center holes, with the center one the most used.

I would guess him at 22 or so, not minding the baggy clothes look. But I think his face looked radicaly thin, almost anorexic like Karen Carpenter looked. I think he gave up eating much when he decided it was going to be suicide for him.

CCM certainly thinks he had lost the weight, which means he had gained it first. LOL And CCM probably saw him naked at autopsy, as a lot of investigators are there at that time. I bet his arms and legs were real skinny and his hip bonese protruded upwards. If so, that would be way too thin for his frame, don't you think? I think his facial structure shows he had a good skelatal system and not just that of a fine boned man. Lordie-do - who know's for sure! :waitasec:

Scandi
 
wannabesleuthkk said:
snipped...

Would like to get ahold of the lady with the Uof WA anthropology dept still.
someone familiar with the facial traits of different tribes of the region.
(the same for my other project. see - Elma Woods, Gray's Harbor jane doe)
(Elma is probably asian but not sure from where. Need more links.)


kk
Click to expand...


This is an excellent idea (anthropology dept).

Eleven years ago I went to a spiritual gathering at the Lummi Reservation (another coastal tribe in Whatcom County, WA), and there were several different tribal representatives from around the world there. At the time, I was looking for my birth-mother (a Lakota Sioux, Brule branch of Sioux, South Dakota). Anyway, there were people from Siberia, First Nations from Canada, Plains tribes, Eastern tribes, Southern tribes, aboriginal people from Australia, Japanese, Chinese, etc.. The really amazing thing is there were people at the gathering who were uncanny in their ability to identify which tribes people originated.


Several people I talked to from South Dakota recognized which band of Sioux I belonged to, before I asked! It was like, oh, you look so much like so and so. I hadn't been back to SD since I was two-years-old, but they remembered my grand parents, mother, aunts, cousins, etc.. It was the same with a lot of the other visiting tribes, they seemed to have a sixth sense of where people originated. Maybe it's because some of the people I met were very well traveled in the tribal circles.
 
I was hoping that the recirculation of Lyle's new photo would at least prompt someone to help ID his tribe anyway. I feel sure there is someone that could tell us. We just have to get the pics to the right people.
kk
 
scandi said:
Yes, it was the 3 center holes, with the center one the most used.

I would guess him at 22 or so, not minding the baggy clothes look. But I think his face looked radicaly thin, almost anorexic like Karen Carpenter looked. I think he gave up eating much when he decided it was going to be suicide for him.

CCM certainly thinks he had lost the weight, which means he had gained it first. LOL And CCM probably saw him naked at autopsy, as a lot of investigators are there at that time. I bet his arms and legs were real skinny and his hip bonese protruded upwards. If so, that would be way too thin for his frame, don't you think? I think his facial structure shows he had a good skelatal system and not just that of a fine boned man. Lordie-do - who know's for sure! :waitasec:

Scandi
Click to expand...


Yes, his weight was too slim for his weight, but I have a nephew who grew to 6'5" by the time he was 17yo, and he was gangly looking into his ealy 30's when he finally filled out some.

If (since) Lyle was depressed, it wouldn't have taken long for his body to become dehydrated, and to have appeared shrunken. How many calories a day does it take to maintain a body frame that tall? Look at boxers, runners, body builders, skiers, or anyone else who is young and fit, it doesn't take long for them to drop weight because of their metabolism.

Lyle's uncalloused hands could be from being unemployed for a period of time. His untanned body could be from staying inside because of his depression, unemployment, or drug rehab. I would agree with one of the posters who said maybe Lyle had been bundled up, if it hadn't been for the fact that it was September. Maybe, he was from a Northern tribe, and he kept covered because of the mosquitos (think Norther Canada and Alaska), they have mosquitos who can carry a person off, or so I've heard.
 
WhiteWolf said:
You did a good job on the new reconstruction photos. The way you distributed his weight seems consistent with Lyle's heighth and bone structure. I hope that if you have time, you would tackle Lyle's profile photo because he has a very distinct jaw, nose and cheeks bones.

You mentioned the no tan lines (was my question to ccm), have you seen a full length post mortem photo of Lyle? You seem very knowledgeable about skin tones, what would be your guess as to nationality of Lyle? Do you have any thoughts at to why a young man wouldn't have tan lines on at least his forearms and neck at the end of summer?

Edited to add: I thought Lyle looked too pale in his first death photo (the one on the first poster), but you're right, they didn't have the warmer tones from his blood pumping. Maybe he wasn't near as pale as I thought. Is it possible to deepen that skin tone without making him look "tanned"?
Click to expand...
Thanks for the compliment! I could tackle the profile, if CCM thinks it'll help locate him.
I've not seen any full length photos of Lyle. I used the photos that were linked earlier in this thread for all of my work.
Having done some makeup effects for films, etc, I'm fairly aware of skin tone. My guess about the nationality of Lyle? He's definately got a significant ammount of Native American in him, but he's also mixed with European or even Egyptian. I've known Egyptians who had simular coloring, with fair skin, dark course hair, and hazel eyes. "Black Irish" also have very fair skin, and dark hair, but tend to have blue eyes and possibly freckles. Lyle had no evident freckles, so I'd doubt that he's got Irish in him. He also doesnt seem to look like Nordic or Germanic heritage, to me.
Technically, it would be possible to change his skin tone. However, it's actually been changed a good bit, which isn't really evident unless you place the photo and reconstruction side by side. Any darker, and I'm afriad it wouldn't be accurate to the way he looked in life. Even if he stayed inside for a year, his skin would still show pigment from sun damage or resilient tan lines, neither seem evident, so my guess is that he had long lived a white-collar life, perhaps working in IT, computers, scholastics, or datakeeping, like finance.
But, of course, I'm making assumptions too.
 
WhiteWolf, I think on the Olympic Peninsula they are very tribe oriented and proud of it. It seems so well organized with each group having their own acrage on which to live, yet hunting or fishing right along side their brothers. I really chuckled when I read the story of the Tsunami is a major one on the Peninsula. When it came ashore it washed people everywhere, even up into the trees, and one tribe was suddenly in another tribes camp, and that tribe was no longer there but up the river, and on and on. They were close and yet far enough away from each other it seems. :D

Efxfavid, That's amazing, because when I looked at his front-on drawing that the State of Washington has used, that is what I saw - Egyptian. Maybe the squareness or shape of his face, nose {although from the side you see a little indian hump} and lips. The chin, unusually broad I think, with that little divot you carefully filled in a bit, is the one thing I couldn't place heredity-wise.

I found this incredible book on line with umpteen photos of all kinds of USA indians, where you can look at all the photos plate by plate. I thought of the Sioux, but they had more pointed chins. The only chins I saw like Lyle's were from the Lootka from Vancouver Island, Canada. They are so close to the Olympic Peninsula indians, in fact the Makah took their language. I think they inter-related with our WA indians on occasion.

Scandi
 
wannabesleuthkk said:
OoD, what a twist! The John Doe from Canada does resemble Lyle alot. My brain cells aren't firing right so it was like i was seeing Lyle in two places in time. Like the same story happening in two different places in time.
So then my silly brain says, HEY that'd be a great movie. A guy whose story shows him living the last six months of his life over and over. He kills himself only to come back (reincarnate) and have to experience it again until he comes across that one person that'll save him. Altering history forever.
or a book! yeh!Ok i'll stop. but i got dibs.
I remember seeing the canadien, because i remember that rose. That rose seemed to me the secret key to unlock the mystery. i'll go check that again later.

oh if any of you are brave, go google "asian faces photos"
I litterally blushed at the options available. never had the nerve to actually check out any of "adult" material. I use the term losely.

back ina while
kk
Click to expand...
I tried to figure out what Lyle and David (Doe Network Case 720UMSK) could possibly have in common with each other. Both commited suicide, both were clean cut, both were above drifter status, both have baffled police and they both somewhat resemble eachother and they both used names even though 720UMSK's name isn't known as of yet to be real or fake, although we know Lyle's name isn't his real one. They're also in the same weight range for now being that Lyle is a foot and four inches taller and underweight than David, who is 5'9" and in possibly his normal weight range
 
efxdavid said:
Thanks for the compliment! I could tackle the profile, if CCM thinks it'll help locate him.
I've not seen any full length photos of Lyle. I used the photos that were linked earlier in this thread for all of my work.
Having done some makeup effects for films, etc, I'm fairly aware of skin tone. My guess about the nationality of Lyle? He's definately got a significant ammount of Native American in him, but he's also mixed with European or even Egyptian. I've known Egyptians who had simular coloring, with fair skin, dark course hair, and hazel eyes. "Black Irish" also have very fair skin, and dark hair, but tend to have blue eyes and possibly freckles. Lyle had no evident freckles, so I'd doubt that he's got Irish in him. He also doesnt seem to look like Nordic or Germanic heritage, to me.
Technically, it would be possible to change his skin tone. However, it's actually been changed a good bit, which isn't really evident unless you place the photo and reconstruction side by side. Any darker, and I'm afriad it wouldn't be accurate to the way he looked in life. Even if he stayed inside for a year, his skin would still show pigment from sun damage or resilient tan lines, neither seem evident, so my guess is that he had long lived a white-collar life, perhaps working in IT, computers, scholastics, or datakeeping, like finance.
But, of course, I'm making assumptions too.
Click to expand...


Skin tone is such a hard thing to explain to anyone if you don't know what you're talking about :) I'm Natve American and Irish and my 1st hubby was Irish, German Gypsy (whatever that includes). I had definate darker skin when I was younger, even brown eyes until I was abou 6-7, when they gradually turned hazel colored. My daughter's coloring is similar to mine, but my son is blue eyed,fair skinned, and black haired (his dad was brown haired and blue eyed).

My great-uncle who raised me, was mostly Sioux (5/8 to 3/4), and the rest Irish. He was 6'3'' tall and 235lbs. He was very dark, no body hair (except pubic and a few chin whiskers). When he died at 79yo, I could hardly recognize him because his coloring was so pale, just like Lyle's. He appeared yellow instead of the color I'm trying to convey to you. Actually, the unretouched pictures of Lyle's profile picture, even with the discoloring from hanging, are closer to what I imagine Lyle's skin color to be.

I've read about the "drownings", and there is a thread here somewhere. I'll have to reread it before I can discuss it with you. My first thoughts are the area the men went missing, mostly by bars and fun hangout areas for young people. Secondly, a convenient river to dump the bodies versus a wooded area or whatever is the closest, convenient disposal place for a body. A mugger or muggers, and/or predator/predators who frequents bars along the river.
 
scandi said:
WhiteWolf, I think on the Olympic Peninsula they are very tribe oriented and proud of it. It seems so well organized with each group having their own acrage on which to live, yet hunting or fishing right along side their brothers. I really chuckled when I read the story of the Tsunami is a major one on the Peninsula. When it came ashore it washed people everywhere, even up into the trees, and one tribe was suddenly in another tribes camp, and that tribe was no longer there but up the river, and on and on. They were close and yet far enough away from each other it seems. :D

Efxfavid, That's amazing, because when I looked at his front-on drawing that the State of Washington has used, that is what I saw - Egyptian. Maybe the squareness or shape of his face, nose {although from the side you see a little indian hump} and lips. The chin, unusually broad I think, with that little divot you carefully filled in a bit, is the one thing I couldn't place heredity-wise.

I found this incredible book on line with umpteen photos of all kinds of USA indians, where you can look at all the photos plate by plate. I thought of the Sioux, but they had more pointed chins. The only chins I saw like Lyle's were from the Lootka from Vancouver Island, Canada. They are so close to the Olympic Peninsula indians, in fact the Makah took their language. I think they inter-related with our WA indians on occasion.

Scandi
Click to expand...


Someone in an earlier post referred to the Olympic Peninsula being the "end of the earth". I've thought about this as it pertains to Native Peoples, and it's true. All of the tribes in the lower 48 states and Canada, have moved from East to West, based on colonization. So, it only stands to reason the west coast would have the biggest representation of the tribes.

My great-uncle, who raised me, worked as as a tribal policeman in Tahola during the late 40's and early 50's. I remember going to Copalis and Tahola (the Rez) when I was 5-6yrs. old.

More later, dinner.
 
scandi said:
I found this incredible book on line with umpteen photos of all kinds of USA indians, .... The only chins I saw like Lyle's were from the Lootka from Vancouver Island, Canada. They are so close to the Olympic Peninsula indians, in fact the Makah took their language. I think they inter-related with our WA indians on occasion.

Scandi
Click to expand...
That's a great lead!
I tried to Google "Lootka" and only found software by that name. I did find "Nootka" at http://canadianheritage.org/reproductions/10048.htm
However, they seem to have heart-shaped faces with pointed, narrow chins. (At least, in that illustration.)
 
Whitewolf,
are you within a drives distance to Taholah still? It occured tome that if i ws on the ground up there i'd go visit the school library and look thru yearbooks around 88-95 say. we're still guessing on lyle's age but i just picked 1975 as approx date of birth. The Taholah school teaches students of many tribes i believe. I also wonder if you can think of a tribe off the top of your head that tends to be taller on average.
??
KK
 
What a great site Wannabe! Thank you. I've been looking at pics for the last hour and a half I think, but ding it, I couldn't fine the one with Luke. Can you be a real sweetie and point it out?

So many of the areas are in my circle of activity here in the NW, from Willamette Falls, the Celilo indians at the Falls, etc. I have to go look up Tualip to see where they were, maybe it is the Puallup tribe. BTW, the Quiloute is the only tribe up there that does not have a casino. Interesting, huh? LOL

My Dad built many of the dams on the Columbia River, including The Dallas Dam, and we were all there the day they flooded the Celilo Falls. We little girls were crying for the poor indians cause they only had that place to fish. And when they closed the gates and turned on the turbins, that huge lake formed behind the dam.

There was a little town named Arlington up the river that would have been underwater from the lake waters, so Dad did that job too. That was a real project, and they redesigned the configuration of the town, cut the roads in and laid pipe for water and sewage, then proceeded to move every building up to the new location which was about 1 mile back away from the river.

Every time we drove up there we scouted for indians! LOL LOL


Scandi
 
do x rays exist of Lyle's skull? Didn't know if there was a need with no head trauma. I was reminded of other site that talked about how the programs available now can make 3d image of skull and recreate a face on it. Not sure how to go about finding a research facility capable but it's just a thot. The only two schools i know that may use this techn. are in TN and TX.
I was reminded of the technology i read about when i found this:

http://www.eva.mpg.de/evolution/index.htm

this stuff may work on Elma too.

??
KK
 
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